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Next Expansion: Focus on Low Sec

Author
Seraph IX Basarab
Astrology Club.
Insidious.
#1 - 2012-05-29 00:29:11 UTC
Now a bunch of carebears, "economic PVPers" and that sort will hate this idea and since sadly very many of them make up part of the Eve Universe I doubt this will be considered but here goes nothing.

I think we need to fragment High Sec. To me it is crazy that you can travel to all the major trade hubs going purely through high sec. Where is that danger that you get from actually shipping your stuff from one area to another? First things first, the space between all the factions needs to have a low sec border. So if you go from Jita (Caldari) to Amarr (Amarr...err yeah) you need to go through low sec. Like wise I think each sub faction should be divided in similar fashion to some extent like going from Amarr to Khanid space.

People may not believe it but this game has an over saturation of richness. You can make billions of isk with minimal risk. Whatever happened to trade ships actually having escorts? Getting your shipment of trit from station A to station B suddenly becomes an event you show up for and play. There needs to be more of a merging between PVPers and industrialists beyond just one group breaks stuff and the other builds stuff to be broken again so more stuff can be built.

If you need fluff about why this would suddenly happen, I don't know, write up some catastrophe. Some major pirate incursion, economic collapse, Jovian PMS, whatever.

TLDR: Make low sec a necessity by dividing highsec along factional/regional borders.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-05-29 00:30:49 UTC
No. They did try this at one point. They had to revert it back because it broke Eve. The end.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-05-29 00:37:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Karn Dulake
Normally i would troll this kind of stuff to death but here is an honest answer for you.



Its a terrible idea and here is why.


You will create highsec Islands that dedicated highsec players will not leave. So an Amarrian will never leave Amarrian space and so on.


Eventually people will move the most populated Island and others and there economies will die.


This means that Industrialists will move where they can sell there stuff and you will not be able to get stuff in the less populated Islands unless its at great cost.

Eventually everyone will live in one place and just like Nullsec is now even more of New eden will be empty.


Also i take it that you are a lowsec pirate who dreams of an unescorted hauler jumping through there game
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#4 - 2012-05-29 00:42:01 UTC
I would support this...

...as long as gates were gone and everyone had a jump drive.

So, in layman's terms: no. Good luck ever getting from one place to another. There are a large number of people in this game who enjoy gatecamping (for whatever completely unfathomable reason) and a finite and much lower number of gates routing between empire spaces. Gatecamps at every gate would collapse almost every supply chain except for those with jump freighters.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."

Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#5 - 2012-05-29 00:42:59 UTC
I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea, but it's not good enough to stand on its own. Low sec should have (more/better) actual reasons for people to go there; it should not just be an obstruction for high sec haulers and industrialists.
Snow Burst
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-05-29 00:45:08 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Now a bunch of carebears, "economic PVPers" and that sort will hate this idea and since sadly very many of them make up part of the Eve Universe I doubt this will be considered but here goes nothing.

I think we need to fragment High Sec. To me it is crazy that you can travel to all the major trade hubs going purely through high sec. Where is that danger that you get from actually shipping your stuff from one area to another? First things first, the space between all the factions needs to have a low sec border. So if you go from Jita (Caldari) to Amarr (Amarr...err yeah) you need to go through low sec. Like wise I think each sub faction should be divided in similar fashion to some extent like going from Amarr to Khanid space.

People may not believe it but this game has an over saturation of richness. You can make billions of isk with minimal risk. Whatever happened to trade ships actually having escorts? Getting your shipment of trit from station A to station B suddenly becomes an event you show up for and play. There needs to be more of a merging between PVPers and industrialists beyond just one group breaks stuff and the other builds stuff to be broken again so more stuff can be built.

If you need fluff about why this would suddenly happen, I don't know, write up some catastrophe. Some major pirate incursion, economic collapse, Jovian PMS, whatever.

TLDR: Make low sec a necessity by dividing highsec along factional/regional borders.

dude ive flown through ammamake with plex... low sec is nothing if ure quick

There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way. Or By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3

Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-05-29 00:46:25 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Now a bunch of carebears, "economic PVPers" and that sort will hate this idea and since sadly very many of them make up part of the Eve Universe I doubt this will be considered but here goes nothing.

I think we need to fragment High Sec. To me it is crazy that you can travel to all the major trade hubs going purely through high sec. Where is that danger that you get from actually shipping your stuff from one area to another? First things first, the space between all the factions needs to have a low sec border. So if you go from Jita (Caldari) to Amarr (Amarr...err yeah) you need to go through low sec. Like wise I think each sub faction should be divided in similar fashion to some extent like going from Amarr to Khanid space.

People may not believe it but this game has an over saturation of richness. You can make billions of isk with minimal risk. Whatever happened to trade ships actually having escorts? Getting your shipment of trit from station A to station B suddenly becomes an event you show up for and play. There needs to be more of a merging between PVPers and industrialists beyond just one group breaks stuff and the other builds stuff to be broken again so more stuff can be built.

If you need fluff about why this would suddenly happen, I don't know, write up some catastrophe. Some major pirate incursion, economic collapse, Jovian PMS, whatever.

TLDR: Make low sec a necessity by dividing highsec along factional/regional borders.



remove sentry guns at low sec gates, so that folks starting out with pvp can do so at the gates ( where most low sec pvp happens ) without having to try to upgrade to a ship that they aren't properly skilled to fly, or sometimes aren't properly financed to be able to easily replace...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Melina Lin
Universal Frog
#8 - 2012-05-29 00:49:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Melina Lin
What this will accomplish is create an increase in jump freighter and rorqual sales and not much else. Maybe constant TiDi in Caldari high-sec due to over-population.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#9 - 2012-05-29 00:54:12 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
You will create highsec Islands that dedicated highsec players will not leave. So an Amarrian will never leave Amarrian space and so on.

Eventually people will move the most populated Island and others and there economies will die.

This means that Industrialists will move where they can sell there stuff and you will not be able to get stuff in the less populated Islands unless its at great cost.

Eventually everyone will live in one place and just like Nullsec is now even more of New eden will be empty.

Also i take it that you are a lowsec pirate who dreams of an unescorted hauler jumping through there game

Take for example Solitude, a highsec island surrounded by lowsec.

It's a horrible place.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Llywelyn Emrys
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-05-29 01:19:15 UTC
The only real way this could work is if a few things happened first.

Namely:

  • Each empire having its own 'rare mineral' gained from asteroids in its space that are not found in the other three.
  • Many access points between each empire. 20+ at minimum, keeping things from being over-camped.
  • Removal of gate guns or establishment of some sort of lowsec interdiction technique.
  • No more reprocessable loot from missions.


Without these things being in place, this system would fail. There would be no reason to travel between empires if those things were not also implemented.

Solitude was mentioned as an example of why this would not work. However, one could say that the only reason Solitude is the way it is is because the rest of Hisec is contiguous, and the logistical headaches that would result from living there do not outweigh the benefits.

Now, what good could come out of a system like this?

  • More opportunities for intrepid traders to venture into dangerous space.
  • Opportunities for pirate and anti-pirate corporations alike.
  • Possibly less aversion for new players to enter lowsec.
  • New regions for Faction Warfare to actually have an impact on the well-being of their empires.


The concept is rather sound, but would fail unless certain things occurred first. Otherwise there would be no reason to travel in-between empires and the entire system would fail.
Seraph IX Basarab
Astrology Club.
Insidious.
#11 - 2012-05-29 02:16:37 UTC
That's exactly it. Each region has to have its own material that the other regions does not have. This would force people to cross over. You simply CAN'T just have a "high sec island that is over populated" because you can not create anything that way. So that criticism is pretty much done with.
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#12 - 2012-05-29 02:25:27 UTC
Gates are for speds anyway. Real Gs travel through wormholes.
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#13 - 2012-05-29 02:44:48 UTC
It'll break eve, back to the drawing board.

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  

Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-05-29 02:49:06 UTC
Want more people in low sec? Have concord respond 50% of the time on an attack. At that number, more carebear types should start taking occasional chances. But it'll never happen so there.


@OP: there's nothing stopping you from ganking people at gates in hi sec as it is, you'll just lose a ship in the process.
Hroya
#15 - 2012-05-29 02:53:58 UTC
High Sec is to big anyways, go for it and crack it open.
Will all people just flok into one of the factions high sec area's and the rest runs dry ? Maybe and so what ?
Old players will rebel and new players wouldnt know otherwise, so there is a plus for new people.

There are other ways to make low sec more interresting though, but those would requere a give and take sollution. But we all know that everyone just wants to take and none want to give because of "sandbox" right ?

You go your corridor but.

Zoe Athame
Don't Lose Your Way
#16 - 2012-05-29 03:06:42 UTC
Want more people in losec?

Change 80% of hisec to low.

Remove carebear mentality, encourage group play, bring back piracy/small gang pvp. All in one blow.
Oddball Six
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-05-29 03:09:28 UTC
Llywelyn Emrys wrote:
The only real way this could work is if a few things happened first.

Namely:

  • Each empire having its own 'rare mineral' gained from asteroids in its space that are not found in the other three.
  • Many access points between each empire. 20+ at minimum, keeping things from being over-camped.
  • Removal of gate guns or establishment of some sort of lowsec interdiction technique.
  • No more reprocessable loot from missions.


Without these things being in place, this system would fail. There would be no reason to travel between empires if those things were not also implemented.

Solitude was mentioned as an example of why this would not work. However, one could say that the only reason Solitude is the way it is is because the rest of Hisec is contiguous, and the logistical headaches that would result from living there do not outweigh the benefits.

Now, what good could come out of a system like this?

  • More opportunities for intrepid traders to venture into dangerous space.
  • Opportunities for pirate and anti-pirate corporations alike.
  • Possibly less aversion for new players to enter lowsec.
  • New regions for Faction Warfare to actually have an impact on the well-being of their empires.


The concept is rather sound, but would fail unless certain things occurred first. Otherwise there would be no reason to travel in-between empires and the entire system would fail.


I think the earlier point about the high sec industrialists staying in their island is still sound, even in the face of these points. Look at the minerals that are specific to low sec. Are they and their ores somehow unavailable in high sec?

No, people in high sec simply build models that are predicated on purchasing from market. A supply/demand dynamic takes over because SOMEWHERE in the thousands of players is someone willing to make a pot full of money taking the stuff from island A to island B and selling it at a profit because its not otherwise available in island B.

For the system you quote to work, you would have to completely ban for transport and sale whatever the item is in island B. And then I have to question, whats the point of that item anyway? If you cant take it back to island B for manufacturing, doesnt that kind of defeat the point?

Also you would have to retool critical types of manufacturing to require stuff from the different high sec islands. Unobtanium from B would HAVE to be in a bunch of stuff with whatever from A. Even then it would have to be pervasive. Make tech 2 the only items to have unobtainum from B and you will simply have fewer industrials making tech 2 stuff -- which is kind of how it works today anyhow :D
Oddball Six
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-05-29 03:10:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Oddball Six
Zoe Athame wrote:
Want more people in losec?

Change 80% of hisec to low.

Remove carebear mentality, encourage group play, bring back piracy/small gang pvp. All in one blow.


Lose carebare money. Lose carebear subscriptions. Eve drops to a quarter of its present size within 12 to 18 months as the ramifications of less players and entire sectors of gameplay being reduced/removed takes hold.

Ask the suicide gankers what they think of having less targets because either the people have left or they are less easy to gank, for example.
Zoe Athame
Don't Lose Your Way
#19 - 2012-05-29 03:15:45 UTC
Oddball Six wrote:
Zoe Athame wrote:
Want more people in losec?

Change 80% of hisec to low.

Remove carebear mentality, encourage group play, bring back piracy/small gang pvp. All in one blow.


Lose carebare money. Lose carebear subscriptions. Eve drops to a quarter of its present size within 12 to 18 months as the ramifications of less players and entire sectors of gameplay being reduced/removed takes hold.

Ask the suicide gankers what they think of having less targets because either the people have left or they are less easy to gank, for example.


The fewer carebears, the better.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#20 - 2012-05-29 03:32:44 UTC
Winter expansion is 'industrial' based which will may include the start base revamp, removal of moon minig, and few other things that null sector would be very concerned about.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

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