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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

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ManicMiner Jones
Mercury Inc.
#1121 - 2012-05-26 23:55:05 UTC
OMG!! Please, please bring back the old one. This is a show stopper for me.
Jonuts
The Arrow Project
#1122 - 2012-05-26 23:55:50 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:


Just to clarify, when I say "we're happy with" I mean getting the inventory into a shape that's satisfactory to the playerbase.

No one has at any point denied there is a problem. The fact that I'm telling you we're willing to basically patch this feature every week should tell you as much. I'll happily put it in writing though (again): This feature is not what we want it to be, for that you have our apologies and we'll do everything we can to fix it.



So...once again. What prevents you from doing this on the TEST SERVER, instead of the live server? Why was it so important to ship this crap with Inferno instead of when it was ready? Still no answer as to why you can't roll back to the old UI while you work on the Unified Inventory (Dumbest. *******. Idea. Ever.) on the test server. Your player base isn't paying to Beta test. You get plenty of willing volunteers that log into the test server to do that. Let the people who WANT to test out buggy **** and tell you how badly it's broken test it. Let the rest of us have a functioning game.
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1123 - 2012-05-27 00:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
I don't know what the hell is wrong with you, CCP. I really don't.


  1. First, you completely ignore user feedback from SiSi and deploy this massive pile of ass onto the production server. Repeatedly, CCPhaspoo-pooedthewarnings of their users as essentially being made from luddites and complete idiots.
  2. You have repeatedly stated that your team is going to continue iterating on this feature DESPITE THE FACT THAT YOUR CUSTOMERS WANT IT ROLLED BACK.
  3. Many of the features you speak of fixing are never seen or heard from again.
  4. Most of all, you have a beta testing server whose users' feedback you don't ******* listen to.


Usually, I don't like seeing unemployment, but you people not only deserve it, you're begging for it. We're stuck in the same goddamn state that SiSi was in a month ago and you have the gall to flatly state that everything is fine and dandy and nothing will be rolled back.

Roll this entire ****** expansion back. We don't care about your fancy new particle effects, ship models or shaders at this point. You've destroyed usability so badly that miners have stopped caring about Hulkageddon and are instead bitching about the UI. There are THOUSANDS of threads about this problem from THOUSANDS of unique individuals.

You ****** up.

Now suck it up and roll it back.

(EDIT: This forum's BBCode parser eats my spaces. GG web team)

How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP

Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1124 - 2012-05-27 00:34:50 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
disasteur wrote:


im sorry for asking, but what are your intentions, and how do you think this to rectify?
i understand this is a bizar situation but a little more specific answer would be verry nice


Restoring as much of the old functionality in the new framework.


Please explain this, since I just have been senior software analyst for 20 years so I am certainly newbie in this area:

- You had a partially re-factored system that was not ready for production. It's not just about the bugs, but judging by the "scarce" amount of feedback you are receiving, it lacks of fundamental gameplay features.

- You knew it'd take weeks to implement the missing fundamental, game breaking gameplay features.
If you did not (odd), you know about this now.


Despite the above premises:

- You will take weeks if not longer to implement the showstopper missing features but will keep it in production and will keep having a plethora of annoyed players.

- After weeks and weeks in the best case we will achieve... the same stuff we had for 9 years. Just slower and taking unneeded screen real estate.


What's the rationale behind this?

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Jonuts
The Arrow Project
#1125 - 2012-05-27 00:40:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonuts
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:

Roll this entire ****** expansion back. We don't care about your fancy new particle effects, ship models or shaders at this point. You've destroyed usability so badly that miners have stopped caring about Hulkageddon and are instead bitching about the UI. There are THOUSANDS of threads about this problem from THOUSANDS of unique individuals.



I said it once, I'll say it again you son of a *****. When inventory management becomes so bad that the miners find it WORSE than Hulkageddon, You Done Gone ****** Up. Rollback is, by far, the best available option.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1126 - 2012-05-27 00:50:09 UTC
♥ persistent windows back sooner rather than later ♥ end to unfinished patches ♥ protesting at monument until fixed ♥ day 4 ♥

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Martok Kemarrin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1127 - 2012-05-27 01:27:43 UTC
Would it be possible to make assets located in Station Containers searchable through the search tab of the assets window? I run into the problem where I don't know if I own a skill book already or I want to see how many of a certain module I already own and can't do that unless I individually open each and every station container I own and count them all. It would make managing assets a whole lot simpler and alleviate a lot of frustrations when managing assets.
LiNuXb0y
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1128 - 2012-05-27 01:37:06 UTC
Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in on this, apologies if its already been brought up, but tbh I cant be ****** to read though 1100+ posts.

My issues with the new inventory:

1) If I shift click ship hanger and item hanger so they are separate they should be there when I dock again. atm I'm having to click inventory, then shift click both these every time I dock, its beyond annoying.

2) If I get in a ship, it should still be in the ship hanger, right clicking open cargo, or double clicking it to open cargo was easy and useful, now it its not there at all.

3) I need a ships cargo window like the old UI, atm when its made as small as possible, and the index moved all the way to the left, its still really hard to see how many of something I have in there as a quick glance. If I need to munch a booster or check how many cap booster I have left its a real pain atm. Also when I dock, this window should not resize to being a normal inventory window which I then have to resize when I next undock.


So basically we need a ship hanger, item hanger and ships cargo window like it was before, i.e. role this sack of **** inventory the **** back, its really really bad and makes the basic operation of this game a complete nightmare. Admit your wrong, kill it with fire and return to what worked.
Kasriel
#1129 - 2012-05-27 01:38:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Kasriel
well at least this **** up was timed well, i spent my day out in the sun having a beer so thanks for the break i guess

as it stands right now i'm either not logged in or logged in for a specific task then off again because i'd rather not touch this half assed windows explorer port which wasn't wanted or needed.

before this patch i was logged on EVE for upwards of 8-10 hours a day (i work on a computer so i kept it running in the background autopiloting couriers etc) now i'm online maybe an hour a day at most and from the people i personally know the same is true for them. not one person i personally know likes this thing and yet you blindly charge ahead anyway, ignore reasonable, rational feedback from people asking you to make it optional.

now think about that for a second, ignoring the people going OMG THIS SUX ROLLBACK i can understand, you want to put this UI into the game and for some people it may indeed be better, i won't question that SOMEBODY likes it - it's not anybody i know but i digress - but the fact remains a portion of your user base, large or small - i'm not going to say a majority because i simply can't back that up - hates this UI to the point where they're willing to stop playing this amazing game. and you would rather have that happen than make it optional and make everybody happy? oh wait sorry everybody but your PR department.

something is wrong there.

and that's not even getting into the failings of CCP as a whole breaking their word to listen to feedback - because you've been ignoring it pretty damn widely since this was mentioned, or mentioning how similar this situation is to captains quarters, or how **** poor your communication to the players has been this last week, or how you decided to test this terrible UI on the LIVE server after ignoring feedback from the TEST server.

the players on tranquility are not your test subjects. we are not getting paid by you we are the ones PAYING you, we do not expect you to dump half assed half finished 'features' on us that nobody wanted

oh and then there's the whole where the HELL is the CSM during all this? they're meant to be "the voice of the player" and yet they're suspiciously absent during this?

seriously not voting for a single person on this council again. that simple, i'd take a CSM populated entirely by goons worst trolls over this bunch of spineless useless excuse for representatives. at least Mittani got involved with things instead of just hiding what have the current CSM done? a **** poor interview that was a joke. that's it as far as i know, i haven't seen a single CSM post from the current council. not in the past week, at all.
Kasriel
#1130 - 2012-05-27 01:40:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kasriel
Martok Kemarrin wrote:
Would it be possible to make assets located in Station Containers searchable through the search tab of the assets window? I run into the problem where I don't know if I own a skill book already or I want to see how many of a certain module I already own and can't do that unless I individually open each and every station container I own and count them all. It would make managing assets a whole lot simpler and alleviate a lot of frustrations when managing assets.


that particular feature has been requested for years. i wouldn't hold out much hope for it. CCP is apparently more interested in testing **** poor features people didn't ask for instead of a useful feature that's been requested for the last 5+ years.
Vamyaran
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1131 - 2012-05-27 01:54:22 UTC
Not sure how high on the list this is, but would like it put in at some point:

The ability to copy from a list-view inventory window and paste into a spreadsheet. PLEASE. I just got done updating my spreadsheets to work with this functionality, and I LOVED it! -- Any way to put it (back) in would be awesome, even if it requires a new key combo or a right click menu option to copy for spreadsheet.

I'm happy (or at least can live with) everything else about the new inventory. Overall, from me, thumbs up on the inventory!
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1132 - 2012-05-27 01:55:35 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
♥ persistent windows back sooner rather than later ♥ end to unfinished patches ♥ protesting at monument until fixed ♥ day 4 ♥

Dude, it's just you orbiting the monument and pooping jetcans.

Protests obviously don't do ****, see Incarna.

How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP

Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst
Susan Delgad0
Ganja Clade
Shadow Cartel
#1133 - 2012-05-27 02:01:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Susan Delgad0
I've already posted my complaints back around page 35 but I saw this:

Yonis Kador wrote:

One thing I do recall is that the UI announcement dev blog stated that the decision to go with a unified inventory system was reached only after a heated discussion over at CCP.

Doesn't it make you the least bit curious what the guys who lost that argument were saying?


I thought I would say CCP Soundwave how about you go on record and tell us who was for and who was against, and what everyone is saying now. Seeing how the game is pretty much broken for everyone, this might provide us some level of entertainment...
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1134 - 2012-05-27 02:03:28 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:

One thing I do recall is that the UI announcement dev blog stated that the decision to go with a unified inventory system was reached only after a heated discussion over at CCP.

Doesn't it make you the least bit curious what the guys who lost that argument were saying?

They were probably the one who were laid off.

How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP

Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst
Capsuleer Newton
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1135 - 2012-05-27 02:08:59 UTC
Martok Kemarrin wrote:
Would it be possible to make assets located in Station Containers searchable through the search tab of the assets window? I run into the problem where I don't know if I own a skill book already or I want to see how many of a certain module I already own and can't do that unless I individually open each and every station container I own and count them all. It would make managing assets a whole lot simpler and alleviate a lot of frustrations when managing assets.



Ideanow, there's a role that the Unified Inventory is pretty good at....
Gangron
30plus LLC
Brave Collective
#1136 - 2012-05-27 02:32:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Gangron
I can only reiterate the complaints that everyone else has. All I ask is give me a button to turn it off or on. That way the people that want to beta test this turd on the +Non-test+ server can. I and can do all the things I used to do in WAY less fewer steps and headaches.

And I will tell you that, as a wormhole resident, ships will be lost because of this UI. People will be fighting with the UI and completely miss the combat probes closing in on them. Then you will have people closing their accounts until you do fix it. I'm already close to doing this myself.

Oh...love the missiles BTW. To bad the UI overshadows that wonderful accomplishment.

g
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1137 - 2012-05-27 02:50:37 UTC
Oh cool. Go to Jita, Inventory starts flickering like a dying lightbulb.

Roll this **** back, you guys suck at everything.

How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP

Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst
DazedOne
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1138 - 2012-05-27 02:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: DazedOne
The more I think about this steaming pile of **** the more infuriated I get! I will go on record and say **** you CCP and **** your ****** interface!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ban my account for all I care as I've already unsubbed; banning me will do absolutely nothing as you've already destroyed the game I came to love. The old interface worked more than fine and the new interface is a steaming pile of ****! Everyone already knows you "CANT POLISH A FUCKIN TURD."

You guys who worked on the missile effects great job!!!!!!!!!!!

Those of you looking for people to blame for this abortion look no further than these fail people that need to lose their jobs:

Game Design Director : Craig Scott
Lead Game Designer : Kristoffer Touborg
Game Designers : Marcus Andrews, Carl Christian Frederiksen, Stefán Friðriksson, Guilhem Marin, Hrafnkell Smári Óskarsson, Matthew Woodward
UI Designers : Örvar Halldórsson, Steinar Pálsson


In particular these 2 fail individuals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Örvar Halldórsson, Steinar Pálsson Those **** stains need to be fuckin fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your applauding those retards on this steaming pile of ****?????????????? The more I look at this game the more mad I get . How about this ladies and gentleman;

These ass hats are the people PAID to protect us from **** being implemented into our game:

QA Leads : Helga Bjarnadóttir, Dave Mitchell
Testers : Gabriel Bell, Linzi Campbell, Kenny Crowe, Heiðar Eiríksson, Charlie Eriksen, Aaron Fell, Jaimie Fryer, Hinrik Gylfason, Ben Hall, Ben Hunter, Simon König, Daniel Preineder, Scott Rhodes, Andrew Robinson, Stefan Schubert, Ian Shiels, Sami Solkinen
e4e Contractors : Jesse Alfstad, Gary Bannerman, Iain Bex, Alexander Clowes, Gregor Chalmers, Aya Fujio, Chisato Goto, Benn Green, Euan Hislop, Ryotaro Hoshino, Satoko Hotchi, Nicholas Inglis, Rowan Liddell, Neil Logan, Tormod Maclean, John Nelson, Chance Newman, Michael Read, John Ree, Victoria Sinton, Sayaka Speirs, Drew Spencer, Mark Stuart, Will Vasquez
QA Manager CCP Asia : Bing Mikael Xi
Testers : Wenqi Guo, Justice Liu, Daniel Wu
EVE China Localization QA : Lion Chen, Marshall Ao

The most laughable part of this is the testers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF did they test?????????????????????? As I said, I already unsubbed, I can care less if they ban my chat priveldeges nor do I care if they ban me from this game for that matter. Can't play a game with broken mechanics so banning me prior to my remaining time expires is saving me endless aggravation.......
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#1139 - 2012-05-27 03:05:16 UTC
Mine was flickering in Jita also, but I thought it was just me...

I just think it would have indeed been interesting to have been a fly on the wall during the UI planning sessions.

From the dev blog:

The remedy

"So, what’s the opposite of multiple windows? After weeks of research and multiple rejected hypotheses we came up with what we are certain is the correct answer: a single window (please tell us it’s the right one). "

Weeks of research? (Really? How many weeks? And what the heck did you research? ) Multiple rejected hypotheses? (What were they? I might've liked those.)

The lack of persistent windows isn't some anomaly. This thing was designed that way. All this shift-clicking and resizing - intentional! There was never any goal of making multiple windows convenient. It defies the logic of the whole "unified" "one-windowed" plan. So of course they didn't listen to the Sisi testers. The feedback was incompatable with their failed premise.

"As we mentioned before, we are on a crusade against the amount of open windows it requires to pull off any given operation in EVE. A little research, as well as our personal experience, made it clear that the inventory UI was, and to this date is, a big offender in that context. There are tens of different types of inventory location in the game, and in many cases you will find the need to have many of them open at the same time."

I'm a pretty timid guy and it takes a bit to rile me up. But if you give me a shi* sandwich and tell me it's a jelly donut, I'm sure as he77 going to ask you to taste it.

This thing was a conceptual failure. Who the heck asked CCP to make it more difficult to have two windows open simultaneously? It might be good for the server, but it sure sucks for us. We needed those windows open. Whereas before I had two clear containers with thumbnails, now I have one laggy container larger than before due to the extra info I didn't know I was missing and a tree. I'm supposed to just drag stuff over to the tree and hope it lands in the right spot without opening that inventory division to verify the completion of the action? Whatever. Even when I can see where I'm putting things, I lose stuff. It's just a nightmare and for me represents a complete underestimation of what makes EVE work for some people.

I still have to open all the same windows as before but now am forced to use a program designed specifically to make that difficult? Insane. Of course there's dissatisfaction.

As a matter of fact, if you care to revisit them, the feedback threads, in retrospect, are funny now. I hate to be harsh but its true.

How can we improve the new UI?

You can't. It sucks.

Comment deleted. Please reply somewhere else.

How can we improve the new UI? It's awesome!

You can't improve it. It REALLY does suck.

Comment deleted. Please stay on topic.

The new UI is amazing! How can we make it better?

and so on and so on....

This is not an accident. It's not an oversight. It was designed this way. And for a soul-crushing, efficiency-decreasing, game-changing function that no one was asking for...kudos. Mission accomplished. Everything shows up in one window.

Windows are the devil.

High fives all around.

Yonis Kador
Rammix
TheMurk
#1140 - 2012-05-27 03:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
I think all whining, yelling, brick-shitting about new inventory can be stopped by just 3 improvements in functionality:

Custom folders for any types of containers (in the tree);
Container state memory - by type and name;
Exporting of folder and filter settings to file.
...
Everybody's happy.

For prolonged euphoria: inventory settings window for detailed customization.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread