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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

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Marisol Shimaya
Doomheim
#901 - 2012-05-25 17:02:59 UTC
Damit CCP

I can't play eve until you can fix the Inventory

Still crash my eve clients when I try to play

Fight For Our Rights

Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#902 - 2012-05-25 17:06:13 UTC
Callidus Dux wrote:
Oh no! Is it possible that CCP gets dumber every day?
Now there is another Thread from another CCP guy who asks "How should we improve the inventory UI?".
Read the EXISTING Threads and do not split the whole community into different locations in the forum!

You have your feedback, You got your feedback from SiSi and the minority of the community hates your sh!t.

At least build a version so that I, and all others, are able to rebuild the old UI 100%; 1to1 again.
NO one need all information in one window. WE demand hundreds of its own, adjustable in size and position, windows.
We demand the exact copy of the old UI!

And please stop introduceing more threads HOW SHOULD WE FIX IT? You have your comments:

Here
HERE
HERE!!!
HERE!!!!!!

They all say: bring back the old view. Nothing others. Just the old, hundreds of own windows, view!
How many threads do you need more till you have found out, that your UI is absolute crapsh!t and that it is impossible to rescue this project?

BRING BACK THE EXACT COPY OF THE OLD UI!!! 100% and 1to1 as it was before 22.05.2012!!!!!!!!!!!!! X
With every further question and next thread you will bring more hate into the community! STOP IT! Just roll back!


Holy S**t! Thank you Callidus for spotting this. Unbelieveable.

OK folks, how about a few of you go visit that other thread and, politely, firmly, clearly advise Optimal to use this thread. Just screaming at the guy isn't gonna help us.

Sorry to say but this reeks. As a willing suspension of disbelief, I'm going to assume that Soundwave is out of the office and has no idea this other thread is out there.
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#903 - 2012-05-25 17:07:50 UTC
Ribikoka wrote:
This is another lol.

"Why is there a drone bay showing for Tengu when there is no drone bay ???"


ummm... because there IS no spoon? Lol
Kile Kitmoore
#904 - 2012-05-25 17:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kile Kitmoore
Marisol Shimaya wrote:
Kile Kitmoore wrote:
Solmirana Kelranorra wrote:
Ribikoka wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Many current players have identified the Unified Inventory as a game breaker. I judge it's value based upon what a new player would think if they utilized the free trial for the first time. I doubt few, if any, would disagree that a new player would go "WTF is this ****" and uninstall the game.



Really not ? I brought 14 new players to the game in the last 2 months, all of this players without exceptions feel anger for this crap inventory.
6 players instantly left from the game the others thinking about it. Before this changes, all of them enjoyed the game, but now not.
Many old friends told to me, they wont renew their subscriptions too, they will waiting when CCP will realise they made a mistake and they will try to fix this again. They dont want to pay for a half finished work. They want playing and fun. But this new inventory item just frustate them and that's not really fun.



I am a new player, and I like the new inventory system quite a bit better. Not trying to go to war or anything stupid, or flame or fight. But I'm new and didn't get used to the old one and like the new system better. Got all my station containers labeled and like how they pop up as a list that I can then subdivide further if I like and access off a single branching tree. I understand that I am not dealing with the volume of items or situations that long time players are. As new players however me, my brother, my cousin and my best friend all like the new system better by quite a bit and we're all new players.


If you really are new, which in EVE on these forums the truth is let's just say a bit flexible, my response is, good for you. I mean that sincerely, I am not personally advocating a roll-back but I reserve the right to ask for one if this new UI can't not at least give players back what they had before. Some people think this is a lost cause and want the roll-back, I really do understand their thinking because it could take months for CCP to work this thing out.

If players like the new UI I don't want to take that away but at the same time I don't want CCP to throw what could be thousands of other players under the bus either. If people like the new UI they need to say why and people that don't need to do the same. CCP can't sit around and cherry-pick all the good and pat themselves on the back for a job well done either. Gather the feedback, from both side, they need to HTFU and start communicating what their immediate plans are for getting things back on track.

Oh, welcome to the game!

Kile Kitmoore you started to play eve at 2008.08.31 01:10 nice but seems like you have playing that much you need to know this ; I had another characters before this and was about 2005. I can tell you what eve have been doing but it will take long time to write all down so I'll think that I know more than you.


You know what I was going to let that post slide but you know what, f*ck it. My response was to a new player who actually enjoys the new UI, which I have no fault with but also wanted to convey there are serious problems with it also. Now you show up with your e-peen about length of account with your little insult for what purpose?

So my response to you; "oh great one with account of old who truly knows more about this game then I , please take a moment and impose your great wisdom and explain, WTF are you talking about?"
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#905 - 2012-05-25 17:13:05 UTC
re-posted from town hall:

Seleene wrote:
"Mostly we are not raging (in public) because it doesn't help. Those days are past now because CCP isn't As for the calls to 'revert' back to the old system, that's not going to happen. It can only evolve forward from here. If you think that the changes to the inventory system involve a "couple of lines in the client" then you have no idea of the complete and utter mess that is the 10 year old server code implemented by dozens of previous employees, many of whom no longer work at CCP."


Thank you for the encouraging words Seleene.

I think the point that the technically savvy amongst us are trying to make is that in a client-server system such as eve there is a strong distinction between data (what's in the hangar) and presentation (how it's displayed).

We are trying to make the point that regardless of the reasons of the underlying DATA changes, the PRESENTATION should not have changed, and it can indeed be reverted IN ISOLATION.

No, it's not "a couple of lines" but neither does it require re-work on the server (I am making the assumption here that CCP are using industry standard best-practice here - something along the lines of the controller-model-view paradigm).

The current presentation is a thin veneer over the underlying data structures - that much is obvious to anyone who writes these things for a living (me included). Players do not need this - they need an immersive, contextual and convenient interface. The fact is that for most of us, the old visual interface was far superior. I think all we are asking for is that the new one is made to look and feel like the old one, and we can start adding improvements from there.

Does this make sense?

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#906 - 2012-05-25 17:13:54 UTC
Kali Mezuko wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Hey guys

We should have another round of fixes/changes coming this Tuesday (Monday is a public holiday in Iceland). I'll post that list in the thread Tuesday morning.

Your management team has got to address what appears to be a complete lack of process.

This is yet another debacle that is completely self made. The only thing in your favour is it is not as game breaking as the last one, the game is still playable, just incredibly frustrating...

I presume you do actually QA this game internally? You have to storyboard how people actually play Eve, and then test against that...

Oh, and releasing a major release mid week before a holiday period is not very sensible. Your developers are on holiday when you need them the most...


THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brutal Red
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#907 - 2012-05-25 17:18:12 UTC
Meytal wrote:
stuff


I had a strange thought that I'm hoping isn't true: Are we testing DUST's new inventory system?
Please say this isn't true.


Didn't you get the memo ?
Why do you think they pushed the new inventory system (probl. with some pushing of Sony/Dust??) .
Maybe a deadline that needs to be met or something like that , working UI or not .

Just speculating here until we get some real info from CCP .
Kasriel
#908 - 2012-05-25 17:26:16 UTC
Brutal Red wrote:
Meytal wrote:
stuff


I had a strange thought that I'm hoping isn't true: Are we testing DUST's new inventory system?
Please say this isn't true.


Didn't you get the memo ?
Why do you think they pushed the new inventory system (probl. with some pushing of Sony/Dust??) .
Maybe a deadline that needs to be met or something like that , working UI or not .

Just speculating here until we get some real info from CCP .


actually considering incarna was their testbed for the WoD engine it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't take any pushing at all it's not like we're paying customers or anything right?
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#909 - 2012-05-25 17:27:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ribikoka
Kile Kitmoore wrote:
Marisol Shimaya wrote:
Solmirana Kelranorra wrote:
Ribikoka wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Many current players have identified the Unified Inventory as a game breaker. I judge it's value based upon what a new player would think if they utilized the free trial for the first time. I doubt few, if any, would disagree that a new player would go "WTF is this ****" and uninstall the game.



Really not ? I brought 14 new players to the game in the last 2 months, all of this players without exceptions feel anger for this crap inventory.
6 players instantly left from the game the others thinking about it. Before this changes, all of them enjoyed the game, but now not.
Many old friends told to me, they wont renew their subscriptions too, they will waiting when CCP will realise they made a mistake and they will try to fix this again. They dont want to pay for a half finished work. They want playing and fun. But this new inventory item just frustate them and that's not really fun.



If you really are new, which in EVE on these forums the truth is let's just say a bit flexible, my response is, good for you. I mean that sincerely, I am not personally advocating a roll-back but I reserve the right to ask for one if this new UI can't not at least give players back what they had before. Some people think this is a lost cause and want the roll-back, I really do understand their thinking because it could take months for CCP to work this thing out.

If players like the new UI I don't want to take that away but at the same time I don't want CCP to throw what could be thousands of other players under the bus either. If people like the new UI they need to say why and people that don't need to do the same. CCP can't sit around and cherry-pick all the good and pat themselves on the back for a job well done either. Gather the feedback, from both side, they need to HTFU and start communicating what their immediate plans are for getting things back on track.

Oh, welcome to the game!

Kile Kitmoore you started to play eve at 2008.08.31 01:10 nice but seems like you have playing that much you need to know this ; I had another characters before this and was about 2005. I can tell you what eve have been doing but it will take long time to write all down so I'll think that I know more than you.


You know what I was going to let that post slide but you know what, f*ck it. My response was to a new player who actually enjoys the new UI, which I have not fault with but also wanted to convey there are serious problems with it also. Now you show up with your e-peen about length of account with your little insult for what purpose?

So my response to you; "oh great one with account of old who truly knows more about this game then I , please take a moment and impose your great wisdom and explain, WTF are you talking about?"



Go away liar. You wrote "I am a new player", after then we wrote, you are not nw player, we checked your borning date, you tried another lying. And no we not fck it.
You talkin about insulting when you use fckit word for another player. Go to another place to lie, here is the adults' playground.
Victor Sane
A-1 Industrial and Salvage
#910 - 2012-05-25 17:32:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Victor Sane
Chloe Celeste wrote:
Victor Sane wrote:


well done capsing like a child :)




You obviously have not seen my previous posts.

#738 - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1351966#post1351966
#825 - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1354926#post1354926
#951 - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1361766#post1361766


Also, I am trying to show how much I hate Unifed Inventory and want the previous system back because it worked so well.


Chloe ive seen lots of posts frankly i dont feel like browsing them all through myself, Iknow people feels that this is messed up and screaming caps in your mind might help you.
But it wont make them listen to you.

yes granted it may seem unfair to you and others cause their posts dont get reply'ed to but they are busy. Trying to undo the mess and rewriting stuff disussing things over again.

This and many other things like people screaming i will unsub and swear stuff at them wont help either thats the reason why they dont want to answer us.
Kile Kitmoore
#911 - 2012-05-25 17:50:02 UTC
Ribikoka wrote:

Go away liar. You wrote "I am a new player", after then we wrote, you are not nw player, we checked your borning date, you tried another lying. And no we not fck it.
You talkin about insulting when you use fckit word for another player. Go to another place to lie, here is the adults' playground.


The character named Solmirana Kelranorra, who I was responding to said he/she was a new player, that is it. I was not responding to anyone else. You take that how ever you want.
sera180
Primordial Freelancers
Dark Squirrel Syndicate
#912 - 2012-05-25 17:58:35 UTC
i think we should remind ccp we are eve woith out us there is no eve this need to stop there killing the game
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#913 - 2012-05-25 18:22:56 UTC
Let me pile on a few days too late and say the new inventory system is slow, tedious, counter intuitive and i join my voice to the chorus asking for the old inventory back - which CCP has said it cannot do.

My question is, where was the CSM in all of this? did they not see this fiasco coming? were they too busy along with CCP looking at new, inventive and innovative ways to further nerf high-sec and lvl 4 missions? looks like it......random module damage....datacores to faction warfare.....who knows what else.
Capsuleer Newton
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#914 - 2012-05-25 18:37:17 UTC
Meytal wrote:
Since it sounds like that few people (if any) raged about how hard the previous inventory management system worked, there wasn't a lot of pressure to fix what wasn't broken. So, there wasn't a "need" here.

By now, CCP has to know that when they make a change, a lot of people will rage just so they can rage at CCP. But unless this change was amazing, they would have a lot of the players raging; feedback from SiSi should have been enough to show that it wasn't ready for production yet.

There wasn't a "need" to fix anything, and there was a strong reason NOT to push something this impacting to production systems. So there had to be some sort of reason for this change and to forge ahead in spite of negative feedback.

They write their code in Python, which by and large is portable.


I had a strange thought that I'm hoping isn't true: Are we testing DUST's new inventory system?
Please say this isn't true.


now that you mention it, this unified inventory works like a charm for games like world of warcraft, if this is how WoW's bag management works, it'll be awesome, if the World of Darkness is like WoW, then we, Eve players may well be the beta testers of WoD's Inventory System... Cool!!! EvilEvilEvil NOT!!!

see, with games like WoW, you don't need to open your bag all the time, but you need to "carry" a set stuff like potions, elixirs, even a set of armor and weapons for different roles, and other necessities. damn remembered playing WoW that i always have half my bags full of something.....
Marisol Shimaya
Doomheim
#915 - 2012-05-25 18:45:29 UTC
HELLO CCP WAKE UP

The Inventory is still crashes my eve client

Fight For Our Rights

Lordan Endericcson
Clan Astreia
#916 - 2012-05-25 18:46:48 UTC
I like the way you make those missile upgrades CCP guys, keep working that way. Big like for that!

But when I looked at the new inventory, I have the feeling, that something goes wrong...
I have tons of stuffs in station containers, tons of stuffs in POS-corp hangars, and organizing it's way more challenging than ever.

I have this open in new window mode, but I hate the way it works, because always have the feeling, that you guys at CCP don't want me to use this tree-inventory like this way, so the concept isn't match with my desire.

Secondly, the looting system is much more challenging, even in the middle of a fight, ppl need to taking care of this tree-inventory, instead of the old ones: just one click -loot all- thing.
Thorian Crystal
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#917 - 2012-05-25 18:51:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorian Crystal
The old ui felt more concrete. The items were bulkier which felt like you moved actual stuff. The new icons are flat feeling like they are just icons (which they are but immersion suffers). Also the new ui doesn't show affected items when I am initiating a selection of many items, so I feel like nothing is happening when I draw a rectangle over the items. And when I drop the items somewhere, they get unselected, though I might want to do something to the items still. Now I have to reselect them all over again.

When I try to move a container on top of itself, there is a dialog which reads: "Physics say no, container cannot be put inside itself". Well, duh, maybe I decided not to move the container after all. Instead of a graceful abort I get this very annoying small besserwisser window thinking it is wiser than me.
Victor Sane
A-1 Industrial and Salvage
#918 - 2012-05-25 18:54:47 UTC
iknow how it feels to have items dissapear in a freighter and not show up picture wise or list wise pre inferno but they were still there. tho i filled my freighter like 7/10th of the ship up mixed stuff and cons.... was a bad idea that day cause most of the stuff locked up and couldnt get moved over. and it seemed that there was no other alternative but to wait until they could fix the issue, which would take time :( so i repacked it and lost my insurrance and made a pettition about that but all my items came out.
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#919 - 2012-05-25 19:09:20 UTC
Oh good. The server had an emergency reboot while I was off eating breakfast. Cool.

Fix your QA process. I've repeated myself enough, so I've linked my handy-handy QA fixer-upper guide in my sig. I don't know why the hell you people continue to run around acting like quality control and communication is something really difficult. It's not. If someone as lazy as me can do it, anyone can. Just ******* do it and quit half-assing everything.

Also, get rid of the forum censor, it's not needed.

How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP

Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst
Marisol Shimaya
Doomheim
#920 - 2012-05-25 19:12:55 UTC
CCP needs to listen to us and we say and they do nothing abouted and that make everybody angry.
So I think this at the sametime that my inventory crashes my eve clients when I use it, it sucks .

I have lots of stuff in ther and can't get to them sence I need to goto the inventory box all the time to find what I'm looking for,
It's crap I can't do anything, about this time CCP have destroid my reason to play eve and having fun,

Sence that I have no choice to say, CCP you ruined my fun , to play eve.


I hoped everybody deleted their account to ccp and see if they have fun when all players have left them

That means they will loose a big income and sits with only a game no one will play

I think that will teach them a lession.

Ofcause other will say to me this " Dream on " or " delete your account " funny haha

or this " Goto daycare center and learn something"

I can tell you all this: I have heard them all so you wasteded your time to insulte me.

So have a nice day !!Big smile

Fight For Our Rights