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Eve is Broken

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Truff Ocsirav
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2011-10-03 08:35:15 UTC
I think you're missing the point man.

In WoW the point was what you do in the endgame.

In EVE, the point is what you do on the way to there.
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2011-10-03 09:46:26 UTC
Truff Ocsirav wrote:
I think you're missing the point man.

In WoW the point was what you do in the endgame.

In EVE, the point is what you do on the way to there.




was going to make a long paragraph stating this but.... this guy sums it up in just a few words.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Tagera
Dog Nation
#23 - 2011-10-03 13:15:57 UTC
If this is your third trial and you're still not getting the game then you might want to quit coming back. Seems it would be a waste of your time to keep bothering. The skill system is set the way it's set. And obviously the idea that they would change it because every little wow player that comes on here thinks the process should be just like wow's is kind of ridiculous. As it does not take 84 days to gain everything here....the skill queue alone would take around 20 to 24 years to max out.
Indigo Amar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-10-03 22:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Indigo Amar
Iorakian Delthar wrote:

Another comparision between the two is how much focus is put on to levelling in those 'other' games. I spent so much time worrying about what level I was, and where everyone else in my guild was at, and that I was not up to their same 'level' and couldn't contribute, that it made the whole focus about the game 'Your Level'.

Being a level 5 noob, you would have no hope against a level 80 vet, who could be completly naked and kill you just by tossing their head to the side. In EVE, After over 2 years, I can still be killed by a 2 month old pilot who uses his smarts or my stupidity to get the upper hand.


I guess thats one of the big things I really dislike about eve, is that you compared a level 5 vs a Level 80 in cookiecutter MMOs, to somone in eve who has played for TWO MONTHS versus you who has played for TWO YEARS, and obviously stating that you have a giant clear advantage, not by your experience, skill or knowledge, but simply because you have been paying for the game for 2 years with this character whereas the other guy has only been paying for 2 months.

As far as I know, the skill points are linear and keep going up at a constant rate no matter how many you have, I guess I would be more interested if the system was like the awful game that is Mortal Online, where you are free to skill up every skill in the game, but you have a skill cap and after you reach the skill cap, you can only shift your points around by choosing which skills you wish to have points deducted from as you gain new skill points for different skills... so its not like Darkfall where you literally have to play for 5 months or so to even be a match for a veteran, which, like eve online, has nothing at all to do with your actual skill, expeience or knowledge.

Everyone i know who has jumped into Darkfall with me has allways become completely interested in the game, they love it, its like far beyond any of those cookie cutter mmorpgs to them, but they allways quit before their trial even ends because they figure THIS out, and these types of games wont last with these kind of systems..

But now i figure I wont last in this game either way, I don't care for Making ISK, I don't care for the Industry stuff, I dont want to be a "Market Warrior", I just like flying through the galaxy with the music and colors, I enjoyed the new tutorial and the captains quarters wich many eve players consider as pointless as cruising through open space, I really just want to have fun as well.. and I see that most eve players find their fun, and actually want to do things like Industry, and many things that are focused almost completely around making and managing ISK... even the Pvp seems this way... and to become a dominating force in Eve... I guess i just wanna fly around and have fun, while the rest of the community and the game is focused on.. somthing else.. a world of numbers and machines. "I guess I wouldn't last in this 'game' either way"...

I will continue playing the trial, I have a fully equipt Thorax and still 9 days left(out of 14) and see if anything changes me.
Tagera
Dog Nation
#25 - 2011-10-04 00:30:31 UTC
Indigo Amar wrote:
Iorakian Delthar wrote:

Another comparision between the two is how much focus is put on to levelling in those 'other' games. I spent so much time worrying about what level I was, and where everyone else in my guild was at, and that I was not up to their same 'level' and couldn't contribute, that it made the whole focus about the game 'Your Level'.
 Hate that part about grindy games....the whole lvl and your too low thing.

Being a level 5 noob, you would have no hope against a level 80 vet, who could be completly naked and kill you just by tossing their head to the side. In EVE, After over 2 years, I can still be killed by a 2 month old pilot who uses his smarts or my stupidity to get the upper hand.
Very good comparison.

I guess thats one of the big things I really dislike about eve, is that you compared a level 5 vs a Level 80 in cookiecutter MMOs, to somone in eve who has played for TWO MONTHS versus you who has played for TWO YEARS, and obviously stating that you have a giant clear advantage, not by your experience, skill or knowledge, but simply because you have been paying for the game for 2 years with this character whereas the other guy has only been paying for 2 months. The paying thing doesn't matter...I could take a 3 day old character and still rock someone thats several weeks or months in game. It's a matter of knowledge, fitting, pre-planning and understanding the mechanics of movement, tracking, vectors and velocities.

As far as I know, the skill points are linear and keep going up at a constant rate no matter how many you have, I guess I would be more interested if the system was like the awful game that is Mortal Online, where you are free to skill up every skill in the game, but you have a skill cap and after you reach the skill cap, you can only shift your points around by choosing which skills you wish to have points deducted from as you gain new skill points for different skills... so its not like Darkfall where you literally have to play for 5 months or so to even be a match for a veteran, which, like eve online, has nothing at all to do with your actual skill, expeience or knowledge. Mortal Online isn't bad.....the makers wanted to make it closer to the original ideal of Ultima Online...and Darkfall is Darkfall. Completely different setting...completely different method of gaming.

Everyone i know who has jumped into Darkfall with me has allways become completely interested in the game, they love it, its like far beyond any of those cookie cutter mmorpgs to them, but they allways quit before their trial even ends because they figure THIS out, and these types of games wont last with these kind of systems.. Darkfall seems to be holding it's own niche pretty well.....and Eve itself hasn't died from it's setup....it's grown. Unlike your precious wow which is dropping customers left and right still.

But now i figure I wont last in this game either way, I don't care for Making ISK, I don't care for the Industry stuff, I dont want to be a "Market Warrior", I just like flying through the galaxy with the music and colors, I enjoyed the new tutorial and the captains quarters wich many eve players consider as pointless as cruising through open space, I really just want to have fun as well.. and I see that most eve players find their fun, and actually want to do things like Industry, and many things that are focused almost completely around making and managing ISK... even the Pvp seems this way... and to become a dominating force in Eve... I guess i just wanna fly around and have fun, while the rest of the community and the game is focused on.. somthing else.. a world of numbers and machines. "I guess I wouldn't last in this 'game' either way"...

I will continue playing the trial, I have a fully equipt Thorax and still 9 days left(out of 14) and see if anything changes me.

 If you want wow in space....either go play STO or wait for that new star wars game.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#26 - 2011-10-04 03:45:21 UTC
Indigo Amar wrote:
But now i figure I wont last in this game either way, I don't care for Making ISK, I don't care for the Industry stuff, I dont want to be a "Market Warrior", I just like flying through the galaxy with the music and colors, I enjoyed the new tutorial and the captains quarters wich many eve players consider as pointless as cruising through open space, I really just want to have fun as well.. and I see that most eve players find their fun, and actually want to do things like Industry, and many things that are focused almost completely around making and managing ISK...


You should consider learning to fly a Covops frigate, and wander around hisec/lowsec probing down cosmic signatures.

Not every activity has to be about making ISK. Just fly your ship around, enjoy the scenery, say hello to folks as you pass through — there's plenty of scope in the game for simply exploring and socialising.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#27 - 2011-10-04 04:50:38 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Mara Rinn wrote:
Indigo Amar wrote:
But now i figure I wont last in this game either way, I don't care for Making ISK, I don't care for the Industry stuff, I dont want to be a "Market Warrior", I just like flying through the galaxy with the music and colors, I enjoyed the new tutorial and the captains quarters wich many eve players consider as pointless as cruising through open space, I really just want to have fun as well.. and I see that most eve players find their fun, and actually want to do things like Industry, and many things that are focused almost completely around making and managing ISK...


You should consider learning to fly a Covops frigate, and wander around hisec/lowsec probing down cosmic signatures.

Not every activity has to be about making ISK. Just fly your ship around, enjoy the scenery, say hello to folks as you pass through — there's plenty of scope in the game for simply exploring and socialising.


Good advice. Smile

Regarding the scenery, there are also numerous landmarks scattered across the galaxy. Some of them are just that -- the sites of memorable events (including, for example, the wreck of first player-built Titan-class ship) -- others have NPCs to shoot. You can read more about them in this dev blog.

Speaking of just flying around for fun, here is my favourite blog from the days of old: The EVE Online 0.0 Experiment.

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire
Sara Mariana
Eagle and Lion Corporate Agents
#28 - 2011-10-04 13:32:00 UTC
ninjaholic wrote:
Don't ever use World Of Warcraft as a metaphor or in a metaphor unless you want no-one to read it.

Try again. This time with a better metaphor.


qft
ninjaholic
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2011-10-04 13:51:09 UTC
My first 30 days included maxing all learning skills to 5 so I could learn maximum SP in future. I'm in this for the long haul. If you're looking at the short term you may not last long in Eve Online. But if you've got some long term goals, there's loads you can do along the way.

the primary jobs in Eve are:

Missioning, salvaging, mining, pirating for ransoms, pirating for the lols, high-sec pirating for profit and Darwinism, scamming, wromhole exploration, deadpsace exploration, trading, manufacturing, research and development and even specialise in logistics.

It is possible to begin this now, and over the next 30 days. 30 days is a long time in Eve for everthing but Level 5 skills and building capital ships.

If you do this alone, you'll usually not stay unless you're motivated or self-sufficient. I recommend joining an active corp, take part in their ops via voice comms and in-fleet and actively contribute.

I HIGHLY recommend the ISK 2.0 guide, as it will (over 400+ pages) clarify almost every single aspect of Eve Online apart from explots and more specialised jobs like successfully managing a spy network and metagaming.

WARNING. BEFORE clicking the below link, be prepared for it to take a good few seconds for it to load. It is a 416 page document.

Linkage: http://www.scribd.com/doc/38449807/Industrial-Sized-Knowledgebase-2-0-For-Eve-Online

Support Eve's own built-in Battle-Recorder!
Flakey Foont
#30 - 2011-10-05 04:26:58 UTC
And of course:

Things to Do
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-10-05 10:59:38 UTC
Indigo Amar wrote:
This is my third trial of Eve Online, and I have to share the one thing that has stopped me in my tracks every time, the game breaking character advancement system that seems to turn the whole game into an illusion. One of this games major ideas - visions - that players put most of their time into is that of the whole character advancement system, where as you put time into the game you will become better, more capable, and more and more viable. However, in Eve Online, this is not a reality, and is nothing but an illusion in the game, where the player is put in a cage with a prison sentence from the start.

lets go to another Dimension to view what I see in Eve from another angle, in the World of Warcraft...


And here I stopped reading. Your just another WoW whiner that can't adjust to the harsh world EVE Online throws at you.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Signal11th
#32 - 2011-10-05 12:31:43 UTC
I for one welcome our new WOW overlords. oh wait wrong thread... I actually like the skill system in EVE, I like the way a 2 week old new guy can potentially kill a 5 year old vet because he learn't more and investigated more.

right now where did I stash those 5k of chicken feathers I collected earlier....Ugh

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Aston Bradley
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2011-10-06 14:09:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Aston Bradley
Grinding those exist in eve.

It's not an XP bar you fill with quests. It's not a level cap you need to reach.

It's your own knowledge and experience. Sure you can stay safely docked for months, learning new skills. But even with all those skill books in your belt, once you get out in lowsec... you will be a total noob, and you will die like a piece of garbage.

Grinding in eve does exist. It's about getting your fat ass out of the station, and go out there to just die. Again. And again. Untill you learn how to survive. I dare you to go out there and survive low sec. The ship your are flying as little meaning, you have all the tools you need to be a killer. You don't need a shiny tech 3 cruiser achieve that, you just need to need to learn how to survive lowsec. And that takes time.

Even after a year in eve, i am still learning. Next year, i will keep learning again. There is not level cap that mark an end to your grinding in eve. That is the games greatest strenght.

You are no prisoner in eve. If you don't leave your station, it is your own fault. With a trial account you can fly a frigate very well. I see players that have 74 million SP using frigates in large fleet operations and solo pvp. Having the big shiny battleship, dosn't make you superior in eve. A fleet commander will often fly a frigate during a fleet operation. Yes it is that crucial to a fleet. And guess what, you can fly one right now.

Lesson of the day : Get your fat ass out of your CQ

[i]FiS should be the priority, but WiS should not be burried!

Don't encourage CCP to make empty promises or Incarna will happen again![/i]
Verone
Veto Corp
#34 - 2011-10-06 16:38:13 UTC
Indigo Amar wrote:
This is my third trial of Eve Online, and I have to share the one thing that has stopped me in my tracks every time, the game breaking character advancement system that seems to turn the whole game into an illusion. One of this games major ideas - visions - that players put most of their time into is that of the whole character advancement system, where as you put time into the game you will become better, more capable, and more and more viable. However, in Eve Online, this is not a reality, and is nothing but an illusion in the game, where the player is put in a cage with a prison sentence from the start.

lets go to another Dimension to view what I see in Eve from another angle, in the World of Warcraft...


Lets just stop right there.

You can turn around, not bother taking out another trial and go back to a terrible grind, a useless penalty and risk free PvP system and picking flowers in the fields of Azeroth.

Goodbye, have fun.


Verone CEO & Executor Veto Corp WWW.VETO-CORP.COM
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#35 - 2011-10-06 18:17:42 UTC
Grind in EVE is optional. Contrary to WOW you are not required to kill 10bil boars to play the game or to realize that this actually was the game.
Di Mulle
#36 - 2011-10-06 18:45:31 UTC
Truff Ocsirav wrote:
I think you're missing the point man.

In WoW the point was what you do in the endgame.

In EVE, the point is what you do on the way to there.



Very true. I'll just add, that problem for lots of players is that they refuse to see and walk that way. All they want is mileage signs.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Korsiri
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-10-06 19:20:50 UTC
Could be it's just not for you

I like being able to set skills, forget about em and run missions.

Or run around and explore and see stuff.

Also if you read the missions, even tho they can get repetitive, the text is srsly funny stuff at times. I love the tongue in cheek humour in a lot of them. You're missing out on a lot if you don't stop to read out what your agents saying at least now and again. Thorax is a fun ship, it can do alot, for a "newb" ship type thing. Go for and see what you can get away with in it =)
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#38 - 2011-10-06 20:46:18 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Indigo Amar wrote:
But now i figure I wont last in this game either way, I don't care for Making ISK, I don't care for the Industry stuff, I dont want to be a "Market Warrior", I just like flying through the galaxy with the music and colors, I enjoyed the new tutorial and the captains quarters wich many eve players consider as pointless as cruising through open space, I really just want to have fun as well.. and I see that most eve players find their fun, and actually want to do things like Industry, and many things that are focused almost completely around making and managing ISK...


You should consider learning to fly a Covops frigate, and wander around hisec/lowsec probing down cosmic signatures.

Not every activity has to be about making ISK. Just fly your ship around, enjoy the scenery, say hello to folks as you pass through — there's plenty of scope in the game for simply exploring and socialising.
There was one person, I forget the name, that had the simple goal of sightseeing and visiting every system in EVE. I think it took him about a year or so, and he posted when accomplished the goal.

When Apocrypha came and introduced another 2499 wormhole-space systems, he posted a message, "See you in another year or so" with the new goal of visiting every one of those (a much harder goal btw).

EVE is what you make of it.
Halaxi
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#39 - 2011-10-06 21:44:51 UTC
I suspect the issue you are having is the different frame of reference, if you are coming from games like WoW.

In WoW, you can get to where you want in a pretty short space of time.

In EvE, however, it takes time.

Something that will go great lengths to making that time more enjoyable for you is to hook up with a good bunch of people, who will give you advise, help you out, or just generally chat to you as you go abou your business.

I've been here since October '03, and can say that, without a shadow of a doubt, had I not met and played with various good groups of folks, then I wouldn't be here - EvE is a social game at heart, player driven - get involved with other folks.

I'm going to signpost you to EvE University - go have a look at their website, have a talk with some of their folks. You will find, I hope, that after doing so this 'broken' game will seem rather more fun.

Hal.
Why yes, yes I am going to shoot you.
Sister Ignatia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2011-10-07 00:06:52 UTC
There is a lot you can do with minimal skill points. I'm hearing about 10 hour heroes ganking mining ships. in cruisers. It isn't hard to make a minmatar pvp character that can have a real blast with a rifter frigate and small t2 guns are just days away if that. If your into team pvp, less than a day can have you contributing ewar to a fleet effort. Ewar is a great skill leveler. Traders are quick and manufacturing if you research your product can be competitive without a lot of skillpoints.

In short I am not of the opinion that skill points are a barrier to fun. I've always liked ideas like good things come to those who wait so though I'm as impatient as anybody else. I've learned that waiting can be fun too.

Without any disrespect, The real prison system is the attitude that the game is to blame. Blaming and quiting are a losers attitude. A winner takes the bull by the horns in the face of adversity and takes responsibility himself to change the world around him to better suit him. Every game has obstacles, don't let them beat you.

Eve is populated with winners. Many many suffer setbacks but we try try try again, we adjust, we live, we go on and embrace and overcome challenges. We're winners.