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New inventory system > honest opinion and feedback.

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Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-05-23 12:53:08 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:

There is one thing.. one thing only... Allow us to move stuff from one can to another when you have them opened in the same window (with tabs) by dragging stuff onto the tabs and I be happy again.


This!!

Also, I like the general concept of the new UI very much.

As long as the seperated windows keep/start remembering where they were, I am good.
Prisoner 002929
Wulgun Wing
#42 - 2012-05-23 12:53:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Prisoner 002929
Can someone just tell me how I can get my ACTIVE ship back into my hanger window? I want one window with ALL my current ships located within that station. I shouldn't have to leave my current ship to see it there. Worked before the 'eve is spreadsheets' ui patch. I'm not so humbly asking for it back.

I also want my 'Ships button' back. I'd REALLY like it if the window stayed open after I shift-clicked it into existence too. And I mean every time I dock.
Cord Binchiette
Kzinti Confederation
#43 - 2012-05-23 12:59:00 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Quick update to the inventory stuff:

We created a list of changes we'd like to make yesterday. Today we're going through it and planning when to do what....


I have a better idea. Why not make a list of OUR requested changes?
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#44 - 2012-05-23 13:00:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Quick update to the inventory stuff:

We created a list of changes we'd like to make yesterday. Today we're going through it and planning when to do what. I'll post it up later today so you guys can see the changes.

One of the changes I'm mulling over two different options and I'd really like your feedback on it. Specifically, it's the POSs showing all the inventories you can interact with:

Solution one: All POS inventories are treated as wrecks. You fly to them, open them and they're put in your inventory with a little "x" next to them so you can remove them once you've used them.

Solution two: All POS inventories are put in to trees, so you can open/close whatever subsection of inventories you're currently interacting with.

Anyway, feel free to add some feedback to those two and I'll return with a more detailed list of changes later today.


Solution 2 for me, though solution one does sound interesting, and might be a good option for other things.. ship cargo? ah.. Container cargo. Yep, that's it.

So, that first option would be good for containers in hangars, (stations or POS), where you right click them to open container to have it show up in your inventory tree, and x to close to get it to disappear. Might also work well with ships.

Solution 2 for other stuff. POS tend to need access to everything at sometime, and flying around bumping this like wrecks just won't do, much less looking for them when you've got multiple of one or the other and potentially un-named.


I'm surprised people are complaining about guns though. Maybe I'm missing something, but didn't you have to fly outside the shields to figure out what they had in them before? Maybe that was just because they don't have names and couldn't possibly be something we'd want to have names. Not being sarcastic; we don't want to name these things unless you come up with a super titan killer POS laser which we might want to name. ShockedSmile
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CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#45 - 2012-05-23 13:00:16 UTC
Cord Binchiette wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Quick update to the inventory stuff:

We created a list of changes we'd like to make yesterday. Today we're going through it and planning when to do what....


I have a better idea. Why not make a list of OUR requested changes?



If it wasn't clear, the list we're compiling is changes requested by the playerbase.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#46 - 2012-05-23 13:01:39 UTC
Prisoner 002929 wrote:
Can someone just tell me how I can get my ACTIVE ship back into my hanger window? I want one window with ALL my current ships located within that station. I shouldn't have to leave my current ship to see it there. Worked before the 'eve is spreadsheets' ui patch. I'm not so humbly asking for it back.

I also want my 'Ships button' back. I'd REALLY like it if the window stayed open after I shift-clicked it into existence too. And I mean every time I dock.


ships and items on the station info screen still works fine. just move them there in the ESC menu options.
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Catho Sharn
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#47 - 2012-05-23 13:05:48 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cord Binchiette wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Quick update to the inventory stuff:

We created a list of changes we'd like to make yesterday. Today we're going through it and planning when to do what....


I have a better idea. Why not make a list of OUR requested changes?



If it wasn't clear, the list we're compiling is changes requested by the playerbase.


How about actually posting the list so we can add what's missing?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#48 - 2012-05-23 13:06:17 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Quick update to the inventory stuff:

We created a list of changes we'd like to make yesterday. Today we're going through it and planning when to do what. I'll post it up later today so you guys can see the changes.

One of the changes I'm mulling over two different options and I'd really like your feedback on it. Specifically, it's the POSs showing all the inventories you can interact with:

Solution one: All POS inventories are treated as wrecks. You fly to them, open them and they're put in your inventory with a little "x" next to them so you can remove them once you've used them.

Solution two: All POS inventories are put in to trees, so you can open/close whatever subsection of inventories you're currently interacting with.

Anyway, feel free to add some feedback to those two and I'll return with a more detailed list of changes later today.


1) Since you went for "the treeview" paradygm please have a look at how XTree Gold worked (yes I am that ancient). A free Win 32 / 64 version is here.
Out of the many features, there was the "on demand subtree logging".

2) The real estate used by the new UI is enormous. Now why did you put *two* rows in the status line? With two little numbers right aligned none the less. Just put them in one row.

3) The inner scroll bars (to the right of container names etc) are too thin, please add a 30% width.

4) The volume hystogram is very tall. The old one gave the same information, in 4 pixels or so. Please make it collapsible or something.

5) The new UI was perfect as assets window. It's really it. It's too big to keep it always open on a ship though, by default we should have something light at the center of the screen.

6) There's a bug: if you dock the new UI to the right of the chat, and you have autohide neocom:

- old behavior: any window docked to the right of the chat (or directly docked to the neocom) would cause all the docked windows to scroll left when neocom disappeared, all would scroll right when neocom re-appeared.

- new behavior: the chat still scrolls like before but the new UI won't obey to the dock and sits still.

7) Please add neocom buttons to directly open ship cargo / ships hangar, items hangar, corp hangar. All they would do is to do the same of clicking on the new UI tree icons to open the same objects.

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Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#49 - 2012-05-23 13:08:34 UTC
I like the features of the window, it's just that multiple windows are sometimes necessary. In space with loot is one of those times. Another is when I'm sorting several items (PI for example) into a ship for use. I can't now see how much I have in each container to transfer back and forth.

All I would like is that you remember what windows we created. IE, my ship cargo, and a POS hanger. In station, my cargo, my inventory and my ship hanger. I can set those up (shift click) but why do I have to hit shift-click every time to reset them all up? It wouldn't be that bad if they retained their size and position. Then in the future if I open a window without settings, you just default to the same...or something.

This is pretty painful for many of us. Glad you are taking feedback.

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Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#50 - 2012-05-23 13:10:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Illusive Wolf wrote:
Adding options means supporting code for both, which gets expensive..


They already have the code for both.

And it wont be hard to allow the choice either.....

If player.specific.gameoption_settings = old inventory_settings_on:

then

load old inventory UI

else

new inventory UI


If its good enough for colors.... its good enough for layouts. We can adjust it before we log in, while were logged in.. and so on.. and so forth...

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Scaugh
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2012-05-23 13:11:57 UTC
Anyone posting here in support of the new changes are actually CCP Alts. (just kidding) Roll

I for one would like to be able to open up serveral different inventory windows at the same time without having to go through the drop down menus.

Suggestions

I have numerous containers in my corporation hangers and having trying to set up corporation contracts is alot more clicking than it used to be. Bring back the drag and drop the items to the tabs at the top of the interface windows. This was especially handy when moving items from one container to another while the containers were in different corporation hangers.

Bring back the coropration hanger Icon at the bottom of the station services so that each hanger then opens up in the same format as your assets.


More to follow...............
Hannibal Ord
Fer-De-Lance
#52 - 2012-05-23 13:12:15 UTC
I'm just finding it easier because I basically never have to use a multiple window to do what I want it to do. I know that's just a simple argument but before I had a combination of at least 2 windows open at the same time. I often spent time closing windows and reopening them, double clicking on containers etc etc. Resizing windows, moving them around if they had jumped about. Getting them buried under multiple windows and having to dig them out of the UI.

With the new system I just find it's all there in the tree already, a single window which can be manipulated pretty easily. I find this faster and easier to use. It displays everything I require it to display and allows me to move items from location to location easily. Adding drones to drone bays or opening cargo of ships and moving that cargo to containers etc - I.E the little mundane tasks I'm always doing - are faster and require less mouse movement and less double clicks to open and close windows.

I'm going to assume that certain complex tasks involving POS's are probably trickier due to how the interface works and these need to be looked at....but as a whole I'm finding the experience streamlined.
Remistor Callaway
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-05-23 13:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Remistor Callaway
Singoth wrote:
Hey guys,
In the pre-inferno days, I sometimes had to open several different windows for inventory stuff, for in-station stuff alone:
- Cargo bay
- Item hangar
- Ship hangar
- Cargo bay of other ship
- Corp hangar
- Secure cans in item hangar
- Secure cans in cargo
- Ship maintenance bay
- Drone bay

It was hell. At least for me.

And guess what? Now I see all the inventories I need, in one little list, in a single window that takes up less space than all of the above combined, as well as making it cleaner, without having to overlap or combine several of those windows. No longer do I have to search for stuff (it was like inventory within inventory within inventory.), do a few gazillion clicks to open new windows. No, I got them all in a single window now.
And if I still need some kind of a separate window, I can shift+click and open a separate window. Not that I had to use it as of yet.
Not to mention I can see the approximate market value of said stuff in the inventory, as well as the metric tons. And this is adjusted to what items I have selected. VERY useful.

This new system is intuitive and works just like the old system. Just drag and drop stuff, but now you only need 1 window to rule them all.
Personally, I think this was a much needed usability update.


BUT!!


I do think that some "forced changes" are bad.
We have seen this happen to Captain's Quarters, and we were given the ability to go back to the old hangar view with ship spinning (and a nice ship spin counter). Nobody complained since then.
I think this works a bit the same. The old inventory we used is about 9 years old now. A lot of players have gotten used to the "old way" and just refuse to change because they already got used to the old system and think it's fine that way.
So I'd suggest, instead of forcing this kind of change on players, allow for players to choose between separate settings; customise their way of inventory usage to their personal preferences.

For example, you could have these different settings:
- old way > nothing changes. You have to manually search for each window, open it, then drag and drop from one window to the other if you want to move stuff.
- semi-old way > just the inventory list without the attached window. When clicking one of the list items, a new window opens. You *can* drag and drop from an opened window to a list item in the inventory to move items there.
- new way > like it is now: inventory list + attached window. When clicking one of the list items, its inventory will be displayed in the attached window. When shift-clicking one of the list items, its inventory will be displayed in a separate window.


I think if this is done, *every* player will be happy about the new inventory system.

I hope this feedback is appreciated :)



FINALLY! Someone who have a IQ high enough to talk with about the new inventory :D

Seriously, I agree with you on most point, the new inventory is a step forward. But I think it's somewhat unfinished and still need some work.

Most of the time the new system is more effective, but in some situation I understand that some people liked the old system more. They should have made this optional.
DrunkenOne
Original Sinners
Pandemic Legion
#54 - 2012-05-23 13:18:56 UTC
The idea was great and I'm sure I will get used to it but some of it could have been more user friendly. Adding stuff into your current ship is taking way to long and dragging multiple items is a mess.
Last Idaho
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-05-23 13:19:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Last Idaho
The new inventory system is way too slow in handling everything I desire. I am but a simple mission runner, trader and miner. When adding hundreds of items in the loot container, it takes a lot of time to get it in there, and even more time to stack it all together. If it allows me to stack at all. The container locks items while it is not configured to do so. It used to happen in a blink of eye, now I have to wait untill it is done, before opening other windows. I don't call this progress. I don't know how you call it, but somehow you missed the point of simple ergonomics. Now, to fix this you will need time. Give me back the option to use the old inventory system untill you fixed the new system.
Ponder Yonder
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#56 - 2012-05-23 13:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ponder Yonder
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Quick update to the inventory stuff:

We created a list of changes we'd like to make yesterday. Today we're going through it and planning when to do what. I'll post it up later today so you guys can see the changes.

One of the changes I'm mulling over two different options and I'd really like your feedback on it. Specifically, it's the POSs showing all the inventories you can interact with:

Solution one: All POS inventories are treated as wrecks. You fly to them, open them and they're put in your inventory with a little "x" next to them so you can remove them once you've used them.

Solution two: All POS inventories are put in to trees, so you can open/close whatever subsection of inventories you're currently interacting with.

Anyway, feel free to add some feedback to those two and I'll return with a more detailed list of changes later today.


1) Since you went for "the treeview" paradygm please have a look at how XTree Gold worked (yes I am that ancient). A free Win 32 / 64 version is here.
Out of the many features, there was the "on demand subtree logging".

2) The real estate used by the new UI is enormous. Now why did you put *two* rows in the status line? With two little numbers right aligned none the less. Just put them in one row.

3) The inner scroll bars (to the right of container names etc) are too thin, please add a 30% width.

4) The volume hystogram is very tall. The old one gave the same information, in 4 pixels or so. Please make it collapsible or something.

5) The new UI was perfect as assets window. It's really it. It's too big to keep it always open on a ship though, by default we should have something light at the center of the screen.

6) There's a bug: if you dock the new UI to the right of the chat, and you have autohide neocom:

- old behavior: any window docked to the right of the chat (or directly docked to the neocom) would cause all the docked windows to scroll left when neocom disappeared, all would scroll right when neocom re-appeared.

- new behavior: the chat still scrolls like before but the new UI won't obey to the dock and sits still.

7) Please add neocom buttons to directly open ship cargo / ships hangar, items hangar, corp hangar. All they would do is to do the same of clicking on the new UI tree icons to open the same objects.


^ This.

And I would like to add:

8) In space, with cargo bay open, if I open a wreck via the 'Open' button, don't replace the current cargo bay window. Rat wrecks should open in new windows. The opposite also: If a wreck is open and I click my 'Open Carghold' button, open my cargohold in a new window. (I know about shift-click, but it is unintuitive and transforms a one-handed operation into a two-handed one)
- Of course windows should open in the same position and state that they were in previously.
- The same principle should be followed for exploration cans, mission cans, jetcans.

Fix all 8 of these and 90% of the hassle will disappear.

- Ponder
Commander A9
This Was The Way
Homicidal Tendencies.
#57 - 2012-05-23 13:24:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander A9
The unified inventory system is...eh...if you can take the time to understand what goes where, it can be smooth, but given the choice, I'd go back to the old windows system separating ships, items, drone bays, cargo bays, and corps bays.

You can still drag-and-drop from ship to jet can on a mining operation, or move ammo from box-to-cargo bay all the same, but...given the choice I'd go back to the old system, especially considering that looting from a wreck can be a pain since it takes longer for everything to load...

Recommendations:

-enable ships wobbling in hangar view (pre-Captains Quarters)

-add more missions (NPC fleet vs. NPC fleets that actually shoot)

-STOP NERFING EVERYTHING!

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Disdaine
#58 - 2012-05-23 13:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Disdaine
Really need to fix looting behaviour.

At the moment you open a can and it opens in your nice big base inventory window with tree view enabled for a few items. When you loot all window resets to showing cargo hold instead of closing so I find myself closing between each can.

Need to be able to shift click the cargo container, set it a bit smaller and without tree view, have it remember the window type, settings and position for cargo container, and then close with loot all.

The problem with having it revert to showing your cargo hold is it adds that extra couple of seconds to every loot while it loads up all your items.
Noddy Comet
Lysdexic Agnostics - Thier is no Dog
#59 - 2012-05-23 13:25:28 UTC
Stupidest thing to me is the fact that the PIN toggle does NOT pin the window and KEEP it where I want, nor the size I shrunk it to.

If I screw up and open yet another window through the interface after finding out the only way to do this is hit "alt-c" if I happen to have my ship cargo open, it then takes my pinned window and puts it smack dab in the middle of my screen at FULL size..

Add to this the idiotic way we loot now, I hit 'loot all' on the loot window I just opened, and the loot window closes but keeps my huge inventory window open.

Hate to say it, but this current functionality is trash.



[i]"The biggest problem with quotes on the Internet, is that just because it's on the Internet too many believe them to be real" -[/i]Abraham Lincoln's "Berlin Wall" speech at the 1984 Winter Olympics.
Ishanmae
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-05-23 13:27:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishanmae
CCP Soundwave wrote:
If it wasn't clear, the list we're compiling is changes requested by the playerbase.


It was clear... Some people just like being bossy and showing they know better...

I'm looking forward to seeing your list and being able to comment on / add to it if necessary.

I like the idea of the new inventory and I am glad that it is going to get improved on!

Cheers!