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Ships need Insurances.

First post
Author
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#21 - 2012-05-21 08:34:57 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Gallion wrote:
T2 requires in most cases their T1 Counter part,
T3 Requires Materials are mostly in wormholes dropped or found via sleepers and their salvage and materials arent cheap,
Faction sometimes requires other sources of Items (T2 also in that reguard),
and when actually building them they Use MORE minerals then their T1 counterparts.
Therfore is still far out of their Insurance Value.
So I say again how is it based on mineral?
T1 Is a Cushion on insurance, but thats mostly Crusier -to- Some Capitolships.
Faction,T2,T3 Dont have a Effecient use of Insurance to do so. So we go back to my point that it is broken.
The Funciton should be removed set loses of T1 Ship to Default a Platinum pay out. instead of sinking further isk just to get a slightly higher amount back. when your default of non-T1 ships cant even Pay a proper portion of its Counterpart towards it Actual Platinum payout.

@ Drake Draconis, apparently neither are you - atleast I know what im talking about.

Lol No... you you obviously don't. This post pretty much proves it.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-05-21 14:03:17 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Gallion wrote:
T2 requires in most cases their T1 Counter part,
T3 Requires Materials are mostly in wormholes dropped or found via sleepers and their salvage and materials arent cheap,
Faction sometimes requires other sources of Items (T2 also in that reguard),
and when actually building them they Use MORE minerals then their T1 counterparts.
Therfore is still far out of their Insurance Value.
So I say again how is it based on mineral?
T1 Is a Cushion on insurance, but thats mostly Crusier -to- Some Capitolships.
Faction,T2,T3 Dont have a Effecient use of Insurance to do so. So we go back to my point that it is broken.
The Funciton should be removed set loses of T1 Ship to Default a Platinum pay out. instead of sinking further isk just to get a slightly higher amount back. when your default of non-T1 ships cant even Pay a proper portion of its Counterpart towards it Actual Platinum payout.

@ Drake Draconis, apparently neither are you - atleast I know what im talking about.

Lol No... you you obviously don't. This post pretty much proves it.


Agreed....not sure where hes getting his data either...too many assumptions. But we kinda knew that from the start.

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Gallion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-05-21 16:10:50 UTC
my data comes from Experiance as I can & Do produce T1, T2, T3 & Faction Ships.

& Rico thats what ive been trying to say man.

This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal)

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-05-21 16:20:56 UTC
Gallion wrote:
my data comes from Experiance as I can & Do produce T1, T2, T3 & Faction Ships.

& Rico thats what ive been trying to say man.


Industry does not orbit around your ego.

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Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-05-21 17:40:06 UTC
I was just wondering if the op knew that CCP had assigned each and every item a base value, (which is not directly market related, but does influence the market) which in turn is one of the ways that CCP developed the loot drop system and insurance pay outs and the like.

However, because Minerals no longer (and they once upon a time did) have NPC buy orders, and other items are not seeded by NPCs on to the market, these base costs have become player driven.

The base values help decide how often they are available, and to a certain extent how plentiful they are. When you have a uneven distribution of materials you get huge market forces that drive up costs. Technium is an r32 moon, it has a base cost of 64 isk per unit.

It is my reasoning, although not confirmed, that T2 and t3 insurance pay outs are based on these numbers and not player driven market numbers. t2 which use a t1 ship in construction, have that factored in as well, the t1 ship being player mineral index prices.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Gallion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-05-21 18:31:49 UTC
Kusum could you possible further Elaborate?


@Draco- My ego? who keeps coming back to the topic with out any Information.

This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal)

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-05-21 18:47:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Gallion wrote:
Kusum could you possible further Elaborate?


@Draco- My ego? who keeps coming back to the topic with out any Information.


I don't provide informaiton that has already been provided....nor do I give information that smells of bitter-emo-rage over losing Tech 3 ships because he couldn't insure his expensive shiny toys cause he didn't know how to fly them.

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Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
#28 - 2012-05-21 20:51:48 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
I don't provide informaiton that has already been provided....nor do I give information that smells of bitter-emo-rage over losing Tech 3 ships because he couldn't insure his expensive shiny toys cause he didn't know how to fly them.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111oneoneeleven

Seriously, you're not the one that should be talking about ships he lost because he didn't know how to fly them. Need I remind you of the incidence of you losing your mission ship (PvE fit) by engaging a ninja-salvager (PvP fit) and crying about it for weeks? Or the fact you need a 20+ man fleet to kill anything other than yourself? Or you being responsible for losing a Freighter you were escorting?

Note to everyone: Anything Draconis says in reference to anything remotely associated with combat is irrelevant.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-05-21 21:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
I don't provide informaiton that has already been provided....nor do I give information that smells of bitter-emo-rage over losing Tech 3 ships because he couldn't insure his expensive shiny toys cause he didn't know how to fly them.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111oneoneeleven

Seriously, you're not the one that should be talking about ships he lost because he didn't know how to fly them. Need I remind you of the incidence of you losing your mission ship (PvE fit) by engaging a ninja-salvager (PvP fit) and crying about it for weeks? Or the fact you need a 20+ man fleet to kill anything other than yourself? Or you being responsible for losing a Freighter you were escorting?

Note to everyone: Anything Draconis says in reference to anything remotely associated with combat is irrelevant.


Uh..yeah..thanks for agreeing with my sentiments....I never complained about it here on the forums.

So yeah...nice job Jack *thumbs up*

And everyone throws a fit about losing expensive ships in private. So I'm not sure WTF your going on about Jack..but then your always going off on people without regard for personal sense of rationality.

PS: Who gives a flying #### what we lose in-game....thats not the point of discusison since your so eager to kick dirt up. Get over yourself jack.

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Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
#30 - 2012-05-21 21:08:21 UTC
Alright, first off, put the thumb that you always have firmly lodged up your *** back up there before any more of your ****posting escapes. Secondly, why do you pay for EVE? You don't play, you pay to post on forums, as always, Mr. Keyboard Warrior. Thirdly, it's obvious that anything you have done is a massive fail (see: Failcascade of Shadow Confederation). And finally, it is severely obvious that you lack the cajones to actually do anything yourself (see: Failcascade of Shadow Cadre after Drake removed 3.7 billion ISK from the corp wallet to settle a vendetta against one person because he was too much of a chicken**** to do it himself).

But, I'm sure you'll enjoy paying your $14.99 a month to continue to post on the forums, not play EVE, and be one of Goonswarm Federation's pets.

Do us all a favor, quit talking about things that you have no idea about how they work, or how they should work.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
#31 - 2012-05-21 21:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Carrigan
Drake Draconis wrote:
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
I don't provide informaiton that has already been provided....nor do I give information that smells of bitter-emo-rage over losing Tech 3 ships because he couldn't insure his expensive shiny toys cause he didn't know how to fly them.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111oneoneeleven

Seriously, you're not the one that should be talking about ships he lost because he didn't know how to fly them. Need I remind you of the incidence of you losing your mission ship (PvE fit) by engaging a ninja-salvager (PvP fit) and crying about it for weeks? Or the fact you need a 20+ man fleet to kill anything other than yourself? Or you being responsible for losing a Freighter you were escorting?

Note to everyone: Anything Draconis says in reference to anything remotely associated with combat is irrelevant.


Uh..yeah..thanks for agreeing with my sentiments....I never complained about it here on the forums.

So yeah...nice job Jack *thumbs up*

And everyone throws a fit about losing expensive ships in private. So I'm not sure WTF you're going on about Jack..but then you're always going off on people without regard for personal sense of rationality.

PS: Who gives a flying #### what we lose in-game....that's not the point of discusison since you're so eager to kick dirt up. Get over yourself jack.


Fixed that for you.

As for rationality, how rational is it to not consult your corpmates about removing 3.7 billion ISK that THEY worked to earn, because everyone knows you never did a ****ing thing to help anyone, from your Corp wallet to settle a personal vendetta?

Oh wait, it's not, no wonder you're a pet.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-05-21 21:16:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
I don't provide informaiton that has already been provided....nor do I give information that smells of bitter-emo-rage over losing Tech 3 ships because he couldn't insure his expensive shiny toys cause he didn't know how to fly them.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111oneoneeleven

Seriously, you're not the one that should be talking about ships he lost because he didn't know how to fly them. Need I remind you of the incidence of you losing your mission ship (PvE fit) by engaging a ninja-salvager (PvP fit) and crying about it for weeks? Or the fact you need a 20+ man fleet to kill anything other than yourself? Or you being responsible for losing a Freighter you were escorting?

Note to everyone: Anything Draconis says in reference to anything remotely associated with combat is irrelevant.


Uh..yeah..thanks for agreeing with my sentiments....I never complained about it here on the forums.

So yeah...nice job Jack *thumbs up*

And everyone throws a fit about losing expensive ships in private. So I'm not sure WTF you're going on about Jack..but then you're always going off on people without regard for personal sense of rationality.

PS: Who gives a flying #### what we lose in-game....that's not the point of discusison since you're so eager to kick dirt up. Get over yourself jack.


Fixed that for you.

As for rationality, how rational is it to not consult your corpmates about removing 3.7 billion ISK that THEY worked to earn, because everyone knows you never did a ****ing thing to help anyone, from your Corp wallet to settle a personal vendetta?

Oh wait, it's not, no wonder you're a pet.



I'm sorry what are you talking about? This is a discussion about ship insurance.
Not about your petty stupid disagreements over something no one is going to give a crap about...except you.

Yes..I've lost ships..likely cried about it..who wouldn't the first couple of times....I learned its a waste of time and I don't.
I sure as hell didn't whine about it like some emo-raging idiot on the forums.

I guess you have nothing better to do....ok....whatever floats your holed boat.

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Angry Onions
Fast Eddy's X-ploding Diner
#33 - 2012-05-21 21:21:03 UTC
Ok so, lets get this sorted out real quick:
1) The insurance system is currently broken as it doesn't even cover the cost of Tech 1 ships any more due (varies a bit by region, but typically max insurance only covers about 70% of ship hull, it used to cover the cost of the hull).
2) This thread is solid proof that Draconis has a leaky ******* cause he can't stop shitposting. Really, get some medicine for that.

S H I T P O S T I N G

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-05-21 21:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Shah Flutters has said it very clearly whats going on.

You people can go on spouting your trash talk all you want....but ignoring obvious isn't going to make you look anymore l33t as you think you are.

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Eidric
Private Shelter for Mad People
#35 - 2012-05-21 21:28:23 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
Tbh I say get rid of insurance altogether.



I think insurance needs to serve a specific function, which it currently serves well - New player cushion.

It is there to protect your most basic (t1) assets, usually because these are literally "bottom of the food chain"

As such I think it would be viable to keep insurance only for newbie friendly ships:

T1 Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers, Battlecruisers, and Battleships.

Cut insurance for any T2 T3 as well as capitals (CONCORD should not pamper you if you can afford them)



That way new players would have less painful losses, while older and richer players would go for more bang at more risk.
Domwav II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-05-21 21:34:39 UTC
1) General readership, Insurance does need to be fixed, it is a mechanic of the game that is currently broken. CCP seems to be pretty good at handling that lately, so I expect to see changes soon enough now that it's getting some forum attention.

2) Drake and Jack: Please don't let your antics give CCP an excuse to lock this thread. They may have renewed some of my faith, but I don't want to risk it.

Angry Onions
Fast Eddy's X-ploding Diner
#37 - 2012-05-21 22:12:58 UTC
Shah has stated how it works as it is now, but, as more than one person has stated, it is currently broken. Hopefully CCP will keep up this good idea streak going and fix this. I am just fine with insurance covering the hull of ship alone, that makes sense. Covering less than hull makes it not worth it and covering more than hull is just dumb. So, lets sit and watch the fire burn shall we?

S H I T P O S T I N G

Gallion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-05-21 22:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Gallion
thanks to those whom Understand that Insurance is indeed broken.
for those that continue to come back and "Lack of explain" how it is not. Let me point that Unless you can break the Process down on to how it aint, just stop.

Ive already broken it down to "How to understand Loses to Dummies" degree of reading.
and Draco stop you dont know enough to complain.

if T1 platinum payout cannot be included into a loss of T2/faction ship then it is "Broken",
infact Newbies tend to get into T3 Hulls pretty Early (it only takes 4 months @ best) to fly and fit minimal t2 on them.

@Anitic-ist, See X on top Right most of Browser, hit that -thank you.

@ CSM & CCP, Please Lock this thread if it continues to heat-up and Fall from topic, -thank you.

This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal)

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#39 - 2012-05-22 03:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
Insurance was never intended to cover T2/3/faction ships.

It is currently based on the mineral market value (not sure if average over region or as a while). It comes to about 70% of the T1 cost, which is what CCP intended. It covers only the mineral value. Not value of salvage Not value of tags. Not value of LP. Not value of moon goo. Not value of industrialist markup. Only the mineral value.

This is how CCP fixed it to be, and intended it to be. Therefore it cannot be broken.
Just because it isn't how you want it doesn't make it broken.


There, that simplified enough?
Gallion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-05-22 04:41:31 UTC
simple yes, broken yes. your point also makes mine.

This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal)