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Warfare & Tactics

 
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For the record theres just 3 Miltia's
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Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#241 - 2012-05-20 21:52:42 UTC
This would actually be a pretty valid option except for the fact that the squids aren't the only thing to shoot at. When you hear people complain, it's generally more along the lines of whelp no squids to shoot at, lets go fight any of the 12 other large groups that live in Black Rise who will fight us in these ships. That being said there's a few newer caldari corps that joined that have been a lot of fun with gf's all around and we look forward to them getting more involved and active.

.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#242 - 2012-05-21 00:33:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Cat Casidy wrote:
This would actually be a pretty valid option except for the fact that the squids aren't the only thing to shoot at. When you hear people complain, it's generally more along the lines of whelp no squids to shoot at, lets go fight any of the 12 other large groups that live in Black Rise who will fight us in these ships. That being said there's a few newer caldari corps that joined that have been a lot of fun with gf's all around and we look forward to them getting more involved and active.


This might be a fine excuse but in all honestly the bulk of you guys always stay hurdled around the very same small cluster of space and it's not like you guys don't have scouts out looking around just any anyone else. I rarely run into "random" Gal gangs but typically those that have been sitting spinning in station and come running the moment we get spotted when running a gang.

It's 1 thing for you to randomly be out roaming around and run in a gang, you out ship and beat them over the head with a baseball bat.. It's however another thing when we know you have scouted us and seen the gang we are in, but still come at us with 2 times the numbers as well as out shipping us..

In all honestly I would absolutely love to be able to take out at the very least Cruiser & BC gangs a lot more often with our corp but every time we do, groups like yours and the rest of Gal Militia will scout us and only show up with either ******** numbers or ridiculous fleet comps that there is not possibility to fight.

Example we take out 10 Thrashers. (yes trust me I hate flying Thrashers at this point) and you gals counter with 15 cruisers with a few destroyers as bait.. Half of the cruisers of course being faction..

We take out similar number of cruisers you guys show up with 2 times the numbers with half being Faction cruisers or BC's or T3's..

We try to take out 10 BC's.. and well TBH I don't bother with that unless we are headed to null sec because the second we get spotted with more than 2 or 3 BC's we have 20 Gals chasing us all over low sec.. Hell I remember more than 1 time of having to spend our entire time out as a gang just avoiding the Gal blobs and coming home not even firing a shot because we refused to get camped in a station and just kept countering the blobs movements.

It's easy for you to praise new groups that are still willing to get baited into your blob & trap gangs while bitching that those of us that know better try to avoid them. Shipping down when you out number the other side to get a fight is the logical step to take if you wanted "GF's".. However you guys rarely want good fights, but just good ganks.

I will also say that there is also a much bigger difference between time zones as well.. Those of us like our corp that is stuck trying to field gangs in US prime time have to deal with numbers that are 2 x what the UK/ Eastern Europe guys have to deal with on the Caldari side.

edit..

Also don't get me wrong.. I understand it's not your fault we can't field gangs to counter what you can bring.. However just use a bit of common sense and realize if you "really" want a GF, that you have to see where we are coming from. Specially when you guys have advantage by skill points of being able to easily ship into what ever you want where corp like ours can't always do that and still have to fight at 2 to 1 odds.

In all honestly corps like yours, SoTF & Wolfy should have long ago moved on to more challenging things, rather than stick around trying to farm KM's of newer groups trying to come up. You guys are only in your position now because groups you had to deal with as you came up did just that.. They moved on to more challenging fights allowing you to grow into better corps in your own right, while being challenged along the way..
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#243 - 2012-05-21 01:01:45 UTC
i understand what you're saying, the thing is we don't have to ship down for the caldari when there are several other groups in the area that we do get GF's with when we roll those types of ships. SLAPD is also a little different as we usually try not to fly in the "blob" and like to roam in smaller gangs by ourselves, we've had a few good fights with goomswarm (?) and a few other newer corps in the last few days with equal numbers (5-8) and it's been a ton of fun.

.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#244 - 2012-05-21 01:27:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Cat Casidy wrote:
i understand what you're saying, the thing is we don't have to ship down for the caldari when there are several other groups in the area that we do get GF's with when we roll those types of ships. SLAPD is also a little different as we usually try not to fly in the "blob" and like to roam in smaller gangs by ourselves, we've had a few good fights with goomswarm (?) and a few other newer corps in the last few days with equal numbers (5-8) and it's been a ton of fun.


Yes this is true.. but FW as a whole has always been a place that allowed newer groups to step up to the plate and make a path for them selves.. With the intention that eventually once they become too big of a fish, they moved on to more challenging things allowing the next groups to come up.

What is happening now days ever since FW became lazy mans ISK source.. The bigger groups that out grow their fishing pound refuse to leave because it's much easier to be the big kid on the block than some average Joe else where. This in turn causes the counter productive stall in FW like we see today in terms of causing the guys trying to come up not being able to compete and having to go else where.

I kinda figure this new patch is just going to make that current trend even worse and likely cause FW to be a wasteland of groups that are only there because they can easily make ISK to support their other activities.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#245 - 2012-05-21 06:58:51 UTC
Well, I can't speak for everyone, but many of us stay in FW because we have done the null sec and wormhole thing aNd find it to be complete fail. To each his own. It's why I really don't like CCP calling FW a stepping stone. For many folk, it is the end game. I just wish I had stuck with it the first 2 times instead of going 0.0...

But you are right - it has gotten a bit blobby lately, though I don't know why. Hopefully Inferno will change that up.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#246 - 2012-05-21 07:33:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Joanna Ramirez
Hrett wrote:
But you are right - it has gotten a bit blobby lately, though I don't know why. Hopefully Inferno will change that up.


How would it, since it just rewards the winning side with a key to the bank vault? I mean, most of the people on your side will not even undock a frigate without having a link-machine or two and you wonder "why is our combat enviroment so s.itty?".

Yesterday we got a drop on few of your guys and they complained about us "blobbing them" when initially they were chasing 1 drake with 4 ships + THREE link alts (including the one linked above) in system. So why is this so wrong for us to achieve once in a blue moon but not for you?

And why should we strive for any balanced enviroment and good fites from our end when all gangs and pilots you have will have the max skilled t3 links 100% of the time.

Yes, I get links myself when I can but I can at least roam in a frigate or t1 cruiser without stressing a need for spy alts and link machines covering all systems within 2 jumps. I dont value a those ships or my ego that much (Though naturally if I know opponent has links, neutral helper, etc. I dont see need to give him a fight either).
Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#247 - 2012-05-21 08:57:04 UTC
That's one thing I have yet to understand about faction war. The Gallente don't like that Caldari often run from us and can't match our numbers and the Caldari don't like that the Gallente have the blobs. Why don't FCs of both sides get together and say "Hey look, let's have us a good fight this week. Bring (insert reasonable number of pilots for both sides) in (allowed ship types, perhaps putting a restriction on how many of each type can come) to (a system with a cool name or whatever) and let's go at it." Sure, it seems... primitive but it may be a way to get more 'GF's. If it works, then there could be more and change up the involved pilots so everyone gets in on one of these fights. Perhaps even set SP limitations so you get pilots of similar skills in there. As Mutnin pointed out, there's pilots who can't match others skill levels. Why not say you can have this many pilots with more than this much SP (alts of more experienced players wouldn't be allowed under a lower category) and so forth and so on. And if it doesn't work, well the idea can be scrapped and we carry on. Just a thought.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#248 - 2012-05-21 09:08:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lock out
Mutnin wrote:


Yes this is true.. but FW as a whole has always been a place that allowed newer groups to step up to the plate and make a path for them selves.. With the intention that eventually once they become too big of a fish, they moved on to more challenging things allowing the next groups to come up.

What is happening now days ever since FW became lazy mans ISK source.. The bigger groups that out grow their fishing pound refuse to leave because it's much easier to be the big kid on the block than some average Joe else where. This in turn causes the counter productive stall in FW like we see today in terms of causing the guys trying to come up not being able to compete and having to go else where.

I kinda figure this new patch is just going to make that current trend even worse and likely cause FW to be a wasteland of groups that are only there because they can easily make ISK to support their other activities.



Well, I have to disagree with you again. We prolly have 10 guys at most running FW missions. Most of us can get better isk/hr in a number of other ways. We are deffinitely not in it for the farming. The reason we do chose to stay is because, due to having a pretty mature member base, our primetime is rather short (3 hrs at best) till the wives start giving the nasty look, kids need bathing, etc. Beeing in FW gives our guys that are playing out of primetime the posibility to fleet with other corps, and our US TZ guys the possibility to fleet with QCATS, SLAPD and other space brosefs.

People having rl stuff to do at any point is the same reason you often see us hanging around home. Can't tell you how many times I took a roam in to Tribute or Fade and had half fleet log off en route because of wife aggro/work tomorrow/etc.

And our current roadtrip to the outskirts of Geminate when we did better than expected , plus other antics in Syndicate or our 9 vs 70 fights with FA or TEST are a testimony to the fact that we are deffinitely not shying away from stepping up and beeing the smaller fish. But areas do run dry and that's when we come back to good ol' black rise.

Before you reccomend proper 0.0, we've done that, and again the small primetime kicked in. To hold sov you need to have blues around you. If you have blues around you, any roam to hostile space takes hours, ppl need to log off 20j from home in hostile space , you see the pattern.

So yeah, if you are saying that we are not fit for stepping up to sov warfare, you are absolutely right, but the reasons are not the ones you listed.

Also, when having a go at us outshipping you, keep in mind that you are not the only entity in the area. And when I take a fleet out, I don't want to be bridged by Snuff or Shadow Cartel or Muppets and go : "uhmm, I can't take this fight" . Or maybe at times we simply undocked the fleet for a totaly different entity and your fleet just happen to get spotted and we started chasing, doesn't necessarily mean that we formed up for you. Case and point, yesterday in Raka, we didn't only have to deal with your 30-40 BC gang, but also with 40 ish russian arti pests coming to your aid. The only reason we could take the fight and snag a few kills was superior fleet comp.
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#249 - 2012-05-21 09:28:48 UTC
Shadow Adanza wrote:
Arranged fights, SP limitations, consensual PVP, low consequences.



RVB that way -------------->
Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#250 - 2012-05-21 09:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadow Adanza
Lock out wrote:
Shadow Adanza wrote:
Arranged fights, SP limitations, consensual PVP, low consequences.



RVB that way -------------->

Haha. It's just an idea to try to get things rolling between the Gallente and Caldari because really, I can't imagine it's much fun for the Caldari at the moment. We are here for fun, after all.

Granted, I have no idea whatsoever how RVB operates, but that's just kind of a one-time-thing idea. And even if successful, it wouldn't be something extremely regular.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#251 - 2012-05-21 09:41:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Lock out wrote:



Well, I have to disagree with you again. We prolly have 10 guys at most running FW missions. Most of us can get better isk/hr in a number of other ways. We are deffinitely not in it for the farming. The reason we do chose to stay is because, due to having a pretty mature member base, our primetime is rather short (3 hrs at best) till the wives start giving the nasty look, kids need bathing, etc. Beeing in FW gives our guys that are playing out of primetime the posibility to fleet with other corps, and our US TZ guys the possibility to fleet with QCATS, SLAPD and other space brosefs.

People having rl stuff to do at any point is the same reason you often see us hanging around home. Can't tell you how many times I took a roam in to Tribute or Fade and had half fleet log off en route because of wife aggro/work tomorrow/etc.

And our current roadtrip to the outskirts of Geminate when we did better than expected , plus other antics in Syndicate or our 9 vs 70 fights with FA or TEST are a testimony to the fact that we are deffinitely not shying away from stepping up and beeing the smaller fish. But areas do run dry and that's when we come back to good ol' black rise.

Before you reccomend proper 0.0, we've done that, and again the small primetime kicked in. To hold sov you need to have blues around you. If you have blues around you, any roam to hostile space takes hours, ppl need to log off 20j from home in hostile space , you see the pattern.

So yeah, if you are saying that we are not fit for stepping up to sov warfare, you are absolutely right, but the reasons are not the ones you listed.

Also, when having a go at us outshipping you, keep in mind that you are not the only entity in the area. And when I take a fleet out, I don't want to be bridged by Snuff or Shadow Cartel or Muppets and go : "uhmm, I can't take this fight" . Or maybe at times we simply undocked the fleet for a totaly different entity and your fleet just happen to get spotted and we started chasing, doesn't necessarily mean that we formed up for you. Case and point, yesterday in Raka, we didn't only have to deal with your 30-40 BC gang, but also with 40 ish russian arti pests coming to your aid. The only reason we could take the fight and snag a few kills was superior fleet comp.


If you think I'm suggesting Sov warfare in null sec then you are mistaken.. It's boring and I'd never wish it on my worst enemies.. not even Gals. However poking sticks their their bees nest homes can often give you the fights you look for and don't think just because it's null sec you have to roam 50 jumps..

There is a lot of NPC null sec scattered around sov space.. Example both Fountain & even local Pure Blind have NPC space with stations right in the middle of it. Delve has NPC right off to the side of it,. Places like that you can very easily park your self in the middle of someones home, with out messing with blues or sov warfare.

You guys I'm sure have enough caps to move ships where ever you want to get random fights with out having to resort to Sov war or 50 jump roams. Would likely be a little more interesting I'd think, than using T3s and all those Guardians to shoot noobers in Caracals & Moas.
El Geo
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#252 - 2012-05-21 10:22:35 UTC  |  Edited by: El Geo
you know guys, this thread is starting to sound like nullsec bs, if you in the gal militia want the caldari to field good fleets and fights why dont some of you defect and help them to get there? finding solutions is much much easier than moaning about easily solved problems, didnt gallente and caldari used to run purple fleets sometimes? (like rvb)

no wonder rvb just keeps growing, i think you should all take a leaf out of their book (ie help each other out)

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Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#253 - 2012-05-21 10:51:59 UTC
El Geo wrote:
finding solutions is much much easier than moaning about easily solved problems, didnt gallente and caldari used to run purple fleets sometimes? (like rvb)


Last time it happened, caldari militia fell into civil war. You need to talk to Sotf and wolfsbrigade (Amarr), they seem happy to run **** together. I have not heard (and hope I never hear) about purple fleets occurring anytime recently with Cal/Gal.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#254 - 2012-05-21 11:00:13 UTC
El Geo wrote:
you know guys, this thread is starting to sound like nullsec bs, if you in the gal militia want the caldari to field good fleets and fights why dont some of you defect and help them to get there? finding solutions is much much easier than moaning about easily solved problems, didnt gallente and caldari used to run purple fleets sometimes? (like rvb)

no wonder rvb just keeps growing, i think you should all take a leaf out of their book (ie help each other out)


I'll let you in on little secret, they don't want good fights. They want good ganks.
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#255 - 2012-05-21 11:05:16 UTC
Lock out wrote:
The reason we do chose to stay is because, due to having a pretty mature member base, our primetime is rather short (3 hrs at best) till the wives start giving the nasty look, kids need bathing, etc. Beeing in FW gives our guys that are playing out of primetime the posibility to fleet with other corps, and our US TZ guys the possibility to fleet with QCATS, SLAPD and other space brosefs.


For a "mature corp" you sure have lots of guys clocking in 8-10h playing sessions pretty much daily. But say what you will, you cannot be here for "good fights" versus caldari. Yeah, we put a bc gang up you can respond with t3/logi gang (with capital hotdrop on top if we are outside a plex). You won the faction war, congratulations, we cannot match you and while you stay around, we never will.

So will you sit here until nothing is left except Sotf because all Caldari have thrown in the towel and rest of the gallente have merged with you or gotten bored?
El Geo
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#256 - 2012-05-21 12:35:23 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
El Geo wrote:
finding solutions is much much easier than moaning about easily solved problems, didnt gallente and caldari used to run purple fleets sometimes? (like rvb)


Last time it happened, caldari militia fell into civil war. You need to talk to Sotf and wolfsbrigade (Amarr), they seem happy to run **** together. I have not heard (and hope I never hear) about purple fleets occurring anytime recently with Cal/Gal.


Isnt the point in faction warfare fun, free of bullshit pvp? (yeah my alt was in caldari militia back when wolfsbrigade were there) with the new changes coming up its looking more and more like nullsec with gate and station guns... *sarcasm* sounds like soo much fun!

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Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#257 - 2012-05-21 13:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Joanna Ramirez
El Geo wrote:
Isnt the point in faction warfare fun, free of bullshit pvp? (yeah my alt was in caldari militia back when wolfsbrigade were there) with the new changes coming up its looking more and more like nullsec with gate and station guns... *sarcasm* sounds like soo much fun!


FW has always been "seriouz internet spaceship buziness" in such regard that people didn't look for fights casually in any large numbers except right at the start and it turned to "bragging rights serious business and no fight unless 0 losses guaranteed" mentality on both sides.

Add in the invention of t3 link alts in low-sec as general trend and fact that most people in low no longer fly, much less fight without one and you can see an enviroment which favors situation where no-fights is the optimal solution. I mean, why would anybody fight when he knows opponent has 50% speed, tackle range and effective hitpoints? Just look on lossmails on any of the longtimers in FW and you see kiting fits are the norm.

With the upcoming changes, it turns into proper "internet spaceship buziness" and no doubt we will soon have CTA's, alarm clocks and apparently gallentes already have exchanged phonenumbers so they can rouse people to play while sleeping. I've passed my judgment and moved all assets to high-sec.
El Geo
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#258 - 2012-05-21 13:43:32 UTC
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#259 - 2012-05-21 15:13:05 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:

Last time it happened, caldari militia fell into civil war.....
because a corporation that is no longer in FW (draketrain) tried to enforce its will on other corporations in the Caldari militia. Well done fellas. Couldn't ask for a better outcome. Ugh
Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#260 - 2012-05-21 16:06:42 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Joanna Ramirez wrote:

Last time it happened, caldari militia fell into civil war.....
because a corporation that is no longer in FW (draketrain) tried to enforce its will on other corporations in the Caldari militia. Well done fellas. Couldn't ask for a better outcome. Ugh

That's not how it went down. Draketrain were mad because they were told to not shoot at a Gallente fleet that wanted to meet up with a blue ops fleet to shoot at a null sec fleet. They refused and then were insulted quite publicly.

From what I remember, Draketrain did their own thing at the other side of the warzone and in Gallente hi sec. I wouldn't call that "enforcing their will".

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.