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Issler Dainzer should be removed from the csm.

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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#181 - 2012-05-20 22:53:13 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
DeMichael Crimson wrote:


Cursing and Drunken Stupidity by CCP Devs? I haven't seen CCP Devs do that.



Here's Cursing

As for debauchery, look at any blogs reporting on their trip to Fanfest.

Quote:

As for the Alliance Panel, CCP has in the past given them a lot of freedom allowing the Panel to be conducted in an informal manner resulting in cursing and drunken stupidity by some of the Panel members.

The difference this time is the actions of one member went way beyond that and basically made CCP subject to possible legal proceedings and yes, it was very bad press as well for CCP who is looking to expand and grow.

But hey, keep trying to portray that member as an innocent 'scape goat'..

GM Salmon wrote:
As some of you might have heard, one of the Alliance leaders speaking at the Alliance Panel during EVE Fanfest 2012 breached our EULA/TOS with some ill-advised remarks about a fellow EVE player. It goes without saying that CCP deeply regrets this incident and will work towards reducing any possibility of this happening again in the future.

CCP requested that all panel PowerPoint presentations and discussion topics be handed in beforehand for approval. Regrettably, the offending comments were made during an unscripted Q&A session after the main presentations.

Following a thorough internal review CCP has decided to respond to this clear violation of our Terms of Service and wholly inappropriate use of the Alliance Panel. According to our existing policies, we have issued a 30 day ban from EVE Online to the panel speaker.

The policy of CCP is not to publicly discuss warnings and bans on an individual basis. This situation is entirely unique because the panel was displayed via CCP’s Fanfest video stream component, a platform analogous to our forums. As a result we have published this statement due to the special circumstances involved. However, our policy remains that we will not publicly discuss warnings and bans.

The panelist has subsequently posted a public apology as well as a private apology to the victim of his attack. He has also resigned from his position as Chairman of CSM 6 and has forfeited his right to serve on CSM 7. As per our policies, this candidate may be eligible to run at a later date subject to candidacy review.

The Council of Stellar Management is a democratically elected council that represents the players of EVE Online. Although council members may represent the players in any manner they choose, being a council member does not permit actions or playstyles that violate our policies.

GM Salmon

VP of Customer Relationship Management


CCP Xhagen wrote:
Q3, Real life actions should not equate to in game sanctions. Why did this happen?

A3, After much deliberation on the subject, CCP considers the Alliance Panel to be an official CCP forum, as it is hosted by CCP and broadcast in a similarly visible fashion to the EVE Online forums. As such, it falls under the jurisdiction of the TOS. Furthermore, the panelist, present on the panel in order to represent his in-game identity, advocated using in-game actions to achieve a real world outcome. Specifically he suggested that if anyone wanted to make another player kill themselves in real life, they should go in game and harass them to achieve that consequence. The totality of the situation including the official forum in which it was held and statements of the panelist during the Q&A, have since lead to in-game sanctions. However, it is important to note that this incidence does not necessarily create precedence for any other "real life" actions or statements triggering a ban.

Q4, Wait, so you DID vet the presentations? Meaning it was perfectly fine for him to make fun of a suicidal player?

A4, Although the contents of the Alliance Panel presentations and discussion topics are reviewed by CCP prior to the event itself, the TOS-breaking incident took place during an unscripted Q&A session after the main presentation which was not mentioned in the submitted presentation. The submitted presentation slides (although distasteful) did not give the name of the player at any time, nor did they call for direct action against that player, and therefore passed muster. CCP have always allowed substantial leeway during the Alliance Panel and we look forward to ensuring that future events remain entertaining and engaging for the EVE community.

CCP Xhagen | Senior Researcher
CSM Project Manager


Zhihatsu wrote:


Can you quote the EULA on this?


Read above.

Next time, how about you doing some research instead of being lazy?


That would be a decision that they made after the event. Something happened, then AFTERWARDS, CCP said that it fell under the TOS. That bolded bit, where they deliberate and consider the Alliance Presentations an official channel, happened after the event that they claim breached the TOS of a piece of SOFTWARE.

They made a rule and enforced it on conduct that happened before the rule was made. Most civilized places don't do that because you can't knowingly break a rule that hasn't been made yet.

Finally, your quotes aren't from the EULA (a legal document written and hosted by CCP), they're from a Dev Blog. Good job knowing the difference.

EDIT: The Bold/Italics section is where they say that they made this rule for this event only. Which is an admission that they just wanted to be able to deflect the bad press by saying "We punished the mean person" without having to defend having an absurd rule on Out of Game Conduct in their software's TOS/EULA.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Cosmic Fart
Doomheim
#182 - 2012-05-20 22:54:01 UTC
I support Issler Dainze 100% if no other reason than the rivers from which goon/test tears are creating. Blink



Carry on, working as intended!
Zhihatsu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#183 - 2012-05-20 23:01:56 UTC
Cosmic Fart wrote:
I support Issler Dainze 100% if no other reason than the rivers from which goon/test tears are creating. Blink



Carry on, working as intended!


So if we declared war on Cosmic Gas Corporation, and then PL popped a couple of your posses, AND THEN had a spy post an alliance mail where you whined that you were "littleraly being attacked by the CSM", you would say that the group posting that mail on the forums was crying bitter, bitter tears?

People without faces have no mouths with which to speak.
Cosmic Fart
Doomheim
#184 - 2012-05-20 23:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cosmic Fart
Zhihatsu wrote:
Cosmic Fart wrote:
I support Issler Dainze 100% if no other reason than the rivers from which goon/test tears are creating. Blink



Carry on, working as intended!


So if we declared war on Cosmic Gas Corporation, and then PL popped a couple of your posses, AND THEN had a spy post an alliance mail where you whined that you were "littleraly being attacked by the CSM", you would say that the group posting that mail on the forums was crying bitter, bitter tears?




of course not.


I'd HTFU, afterall, isn't that the swarms typical response?

BTW... isn't "Burn Jita" and "Ice Interdiction" much the same. Only difference I see here is that the swarm doesn't agree with Issler Dainze and therefore everyone needs to bow to your demands or all Mittens minions gonna come out on the forums and make a scene.

You guys are sooooo cute when you don't get your way. Reminds me of my 8 year old, wait..... he doesn't cry crocodile tears.

I simply said that I support Issler 100% if no other reason than for the rivers of tears flowing from the swarm and pets. I said nothing of the topic of which you speak. I wasn't there and I certainly know how emails and computer generated text can be altered or even faked for one side or the other. Not saying it's the case here but put nothing beyond the swarm considereing past actions of your group.

Not bumping this thread anymore as I feel it doesn't need the attention it's already gotten.
Zhihatsu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2012-05-20 23:05:31 UTC
Cosmic Fart wrote:
Zhihatsu wrote:
Cosmic Fart wrote:
I support Issler Dainze 100% if no other reason than the rivers from which goon/test tears are creating. Blink



Carry on, working as intended!


So if we declared war on Cosmic Gas Corporation, and then PL popped a couple of your posses, AND THEN had a spy post an alliance mail where you whined that you were "littleraly being attacked by the CSM", you would say that the group posting that mail on the forums was crying bitter, bitter tears?




of course not


I'd HTFU, afterall, isn't that the swarms typical response?


Yes it is, so how is doing the same thing to Issler "Goons crying bitter, bitter tears"?

People without faces have no mouths with which to speak.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#186 - 2012-05-20 23:47:40 UTC
Zhihatsu wrote:
Cosmic Fart wrote:
Zhihatsu wrote:
Cosmic Fart wrote:
I support Issler Dainze 100% if no other reason than the rivers from which goon/test tears are creating. Blink



Carry on, working as intended!


So if we declared war on Cosmic Gas Corporation, and then PL popped a couple of your posses, AND THEN had a spy post an alliance mail where you whined that you were "littleraly being attacked by the CSM", you would say that the group posting that mail on the forums was crying bitter, bitter tears?




of course not


I'd HTFU, afterall, isn't that the swarms typical response?


Yes it is, so how is doing the same thing to Issler "Goons crying bitter, bitter tears"?


He wants to wash down his cubic lightyear of Ham with Goon Tears. Why do you insist on preventing this man from eating his food?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#187 - 2012-05-20 23:57:26 UTC
Luv2EVEOforums erryday.

This thread has the best in pubby content.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Connaght Badasaz
Lewis and Clark Inc.
#188 - 2012-05-20 23:57:28 UTC
Damn, who's left to exit the woodwork?

Take arrows in the forehead, never the back
Zhihatsu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#189 - 2012-05-21 00:01:08 UTC
Connaght Badasaz wrote:
Damn, who's left to exit the woodwork?


DIII and his Brick Squad pro-posters still haven't posted in defense of Issler.

People without faces have no mouths with which to speak.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#190 - 2012-05-21 00:06:02 UTC
Zhihatsu wrote:
Connaght Badasaz wrote:
Damn, who's left to exit the woodwork?


DIII and his Brick Squad pro-posters still haven't posted in defense of Issler.

Did that person who posted all the time in the Jita Park thread already post?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Zhihatsu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2012-05-21 00:11:01 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Zhihatsu wrote:
Connaght Badasaz wrote:
Damn, who's left to exit the woodwork?


DIII and his Brick Squad pro-posters still haven't posted in defense of Issler.

Did that person who posted all the time in the Jita Park thread already post?


Which one is that?

People without faces have no mouths with which to speak.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2012-05-21 00:52:50 UTC
Selinate wrote:
She doesn't say how the players should come together.

Oh, really? Let's have a quick look at what Issler sent to her alliance, then

Issler Dainze wrote:
To give you an idea of how screwed up this is in the context of Eve, the allinace hired was Pandemic Legion, what is where the head of the CSM lives,so we are littlerally being attacked by the CSM.Basically Eve is beyond broken.CCP is actually totally supportive of goons and ganking, they think of it as player content. They encourage and support hulkagedon! They actually laugh about miner tears. Unless players join together this summer like they did over CCPs plans to exploit players using microtranactions I can't imagine how most of us could enjoy this game in a year.

Now, ask yourself the question, what did the players do during the summer over CCP's plans to exploit the players using microtransactions? They
1) Shot a statue outside jita 4-4
2) Complained loudly in gaming media
3) Unsubscribed en masse

Which of these 3 things was Issler telling her alliance to do, do you think?

Personally, the last line, "I can't imagine how most of us could enjoy this game in a year" is pointing me towards alternative 3.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Shian Yang
#193 - 2012-05-21 01:07:30 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Personally, the last line, "I can't imagine how most of us could enjoy this game in a year" is pointing me towards alternative 3.


Greetings Lord Zim,

I lean towards Option 3 as that is how I read the words of capsuleer Dainze, but It could realistically be any of them. Apart from the political nature of all these messages, I am more concerned about:


  • so we are littlerally being attacked by the CSM
  • Eve is beyond broken
  • CCP is actually totally support of goons and ganking
  • The actually laugh about miner tears


Dainze is so far removed from New Eden it is not funny. This capsuleer, if she can move beyond petty politics, will be a danger to the free, open world we have in New Eden as her focus is so insular, so locked out of the scope of the entirety of New Eden that she will change our Universe forever if she gets anything done.

It frightens me that somebody so disconnected from New Eden has any say.

Regards,

Shian Yang
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#194 - 2012-05-21 01:11:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Shian Yang wrote:


  • so we are littlerally being attacked by the CSM
  • Eve is beyond broken
  • CCP is actually totally support of goons and ganking
  • The actually laugh about miner tears


Dainze is so far removed from New Eden it is not funny. This capsuleer, if she can move beyond petty politics, will be a danger to the free, open world we have in New Eden as her focus is so insular, so locked out of the scope of the entirety of New Eden that she will change our Universe forever if she gets anything done.

It frightens me that somebody so disconnected from New Eden has any say.

Regards,

Shian Yang

You don't think people littlerally being attacked by the CSM is a problem?

Because I mean, how many of them lead around dreadnaught fleets ~~


I recall something very hilarious about highsec people discussing nullsec mechanics with CCP long long ago which lead to hilarious results.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Cosmic Fart
Doomheim
#195 - 2012-05-21 01:37:25 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
[quote=Shian Yang]

I recall something very hilarious about highsec people discussing nullsec mechanics with CCP long long ago which lead to hilarious results.



I recall a CSM 6 member discussing the nerfing of WH space with some hilarious results. Not to exclude the fact that said person had little to no knowledge of WH mechanics.


Seems to me there is a lot of the pot calling the kettle black.... or is it the kettle calling the pot black?

Meh... who cares!
Zhihatsu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#196 - 2012-05-21 01:40:44 UTC
Cosmic Fart wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
[quote=Shian Yang]

I recall something very hilarious about highsec people discussing nullsec mechanics with CCP long long ago which lead to hilarious results.



I recall a CSM 6 member discussing the nerfing of WH space with some hilarious results. Not to exclude the fact that said person had little to no knowledge of WH mechanics.


Seems to me there is a lot of the pot calling the kettle black.... or is it the kettle calling the pot black?

Meh... who cares!


Was it the removal of high-end ores from low-end Wormhole systems?

People without faces have no mouths with which to speak.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#197 - 2012-05-21 01:47:38 UTC
My my, talking like a moderator, eh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Zhihatsu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#198 - 2012-05-21 01:49:41 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
My my, talking like a moderator, eh.


He is definitely on the verge of impersonating a moderator.

People without faces have no mouths with which to speak.
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2012-05-21 03:13:35 UTC
Irony is only funny if you don't take spaceships super seriously.

So...

Standard GD responses

Hello, hello again.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#200 - 2012-05-21 04:39:57 UTC
Shian Yang wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
No, I do not agree with you nor do I see any evidence or proof that Issler is trying to sabotage CCP or break this game.


Greetings capsuleer Crimson,

Issler Dainze wrote:
Unless players join together this summer like they did over CCPs plans to exploit players using microtranactions I can't imagine how most of us could enjoy this game in a year.


If you recall events during the Summer of Rage, it resulted in a number of capsuleers leaving New Eden to force CCPs hand. I see capsuleer Dainze calling for players to join together as they did then. It may be benign, of course, and after the forum responses on this I see capsuleer Dainze clarifying that she never meant unsubscribing ... political backtracking, of course.

You can see examples of capsuleer Dainze and her high level of compatibility with the CSM here.

Be clear, I dislike this candidate for being a base politician at heart. I dislike the idea of a CSM that is fractured because of the actions of one individual. I would prefer a better candidate to handle matters relating to CONCORD patrolled areas, to the station environments and so forth. One without the controversy (See the number of threads) and without the disgusting, political behavior.

Opinions, of course.

Regards,

Shian Yang


So, since Goon Boy organized the "summer of rage" that means Goon Boy, and all his Goon Boy friends on the CSM should be removed from the CSM as well. Using your logic.

Oh wait, that's applying logic that is less than totally hypocritical and insane and you are a Goon.

Sorry for asking to much of you.