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Issler Dainzer should be removed from the csm.

First post
Author
Just Alter
Futures Abstractions
#1 - 2012-05-19 16:02:09 UTC
I was reading the other thread about the mail she sent.

Somebody summed up the whole problem pretty well:

Ranger 1 wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
I stand stand by it all.

Basically we are at war with the goons and the point no one is coming to help us. We have to stand on our own.

CCP won't save is, CSM won't save us, this is Eve. I'm not attacking CCP or CSM, I am saying they aren't in Eve to "save" us. That is the point of this message to my alliance, we need to not roll over and die. This message could go out to any other high sec corp or player that feels that they are under the boot heel of oppression in Eve.

So feel free to take it any way you want. But the fact is, the population of high sec that feels that they are the unfair targets of a certain group of players must rise to face the challenge. There is no help coming. We face this challenge alone.

Practically boilerplate for most cries to rally together during hard times and impossible odds.

Issler


The above text, highlighting the pertinent parts, does not equal the below text.

Quote:
To give you an idea of how screwed up this is in the context of Eve, the allinace hired was Pandemic Legion, what is where the head of the CSM lives,so we are littlerally being attacked by the CSM.Basically Eve is beyond broken.CCP is actually totally supportive of goons and ganking, they think of it as player content. They encourage and support hulkagedon! They actually laugh about miner tears. Unless players join together this summer like they did over CCPs plans to exploit players using microtranactions I can't imagine how most of us could enjoy this game in a year.


I'm sorry Issler, but you quite clearly spell out that you believe EVE is beyond broken and that the CSM is directly attacking you through the corps/alliances those representatives hail from, with the insinuation it is because of your stance on CSM related issues.

Then you go further asking players to join together as they did against CCP's after the NEX was introduced, which involved protests and mass unsubscription.

You may not have meant it to come across that way, which is a bit of a stretch considering how clearly it is written, but either way this is possibly the most irresponsible action I have seen a CSM delegate take so far.

I have nothing against you in any way, and support at least the general concept behind some of the things you have spoken out for, but this is most disappointing.

I would suggest you get your head on straight about how you make public statements about the CSM if you wish to remain a member of them for your full term. Being outspoken, even critical, is fine... but outright unsubstantiated accusations of persecution and statements that EVE is "beyond broken" shows that your head is not in the right place to be a positive force in the development of the game.

Your conduct is bordering on becoming worse than what you have so frequently accused others (including the Mittani) of, namely using your position on the CSM to manipulate people and events to your personal advantage in game.

I won't stand for it from any of the other delegates, and after all of your preaching about it I certainly won't stand for it from you.


This is unacceptable.

How can a person be so vile?

CCP was able, with reason, to remove the mittani from the csm.

In that way they set a precedent: people can be removed from the csm.

Issler should be removed too, if anybody was not convinced by these posts/letters alone then they can search these forum, the proof of issler inadequacy to be a part of the csm is clear.
Copine Callmeknau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-05-19 16:06:25 UTC
+1

for the lulz

There should be a rather awesome pic here

Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
#3 - 2012-05-19 16:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Nick Bison
Posting in another "I hate Issler" thread.

Issler must be doing it right to get all this hate.

Nothing clever at this time.

Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
WE FORM V0LTA
#4 - 2012-05-19 16:07:28 UTC
But wasn't the whole CFC argument before that Mittani shouldn't be removed from the CSM, despite violating the EULA?

What has Issler done? Has s/he violated the EULA or any other CCP-sanctioned terms of service? Or is s/he simply saying something you don't agree with?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-05-19 16:08:14 UTC
Anyone seen Mr. The L0ck yet today ? He's very late.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-05-19 16:08:34 UTC
More like Issler Dunce.

Former member of CSM6.

Caldari Citizen 786478786
#7 - 2012-05-19 16:08:49 UTC
As if the flood of tears in the first GOON thread weren't delicious enough, their nut-hugging pets from TEST have arrived to show us all real meaning of whining on the forums.
Josef Djugashvilis
#8 - 2012-05-19 16:12:16 UTC
One can only hope that Ladie Harlot adds his/her unique balanced take on this anti - Issler thread.

This is not a signature.

TheBreadMuncher
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
#9 - 2012-05-19 16:13:14 UTC  |  Edited by: TheBreadMuncher
I'll say before what I said on there

TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Youd've thought that if Goons didn't want this kind of slander, they'd have voted in their own representative for the CSM or something? Somebody to protect their interests? I mean, the concept of a CSM member slandering other people is obviously completely new!

Oh yeah... Roll


Furthermore, the concept of encouraging suicide and cyberbullying is far worse than merely slating the goons...

"We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming.

Malak Dawnfire
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2012-05-19 16:13:17 UTC
ISSLER DAINZER IS EXPLOITING SPACE DRUGS TO MAKE PROFITS OFF THE SICK AND WEAKLY!!!!
Kehro Urgus
Dark Nebula Academy
O X I D E
#11 - 2012-05-19 16:13:49 UTC
Deal with it.Roll

Yeeee! 

Alara IonStorm
#12 - 2012-05-19 16:14:40 UTC
Where in her posts does she direct folks to harass a player into committing suicide?

Unless you think being a very annoying acerbic person is equatable.
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
#13 - 2012-05-19 16:15:03 UTC
Caldari Citizen 786478786 wrote:
As if the flood of tears in the first GOON thread weren't delicious enough, their nut-hugging pets from TEST have arrived to show us all real meaning of whining on the forums.


Don't forget the -FA- folk.
But they are probably still getting permission to post but, I'm sure we'll see them here soon.

Nothing clever at this time.

Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-05-19 16:19:54 UTC
Posting in a shitpost thread
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
WE FORM V0LTA
#15 - 2012-05-19 16:22:40 UTC
As much as certain members of the CFC would like to think otherwise, disagreeing with them is not something that CCP will punish you for. Unlike Mittens, Issler didn't break any rules.

If you don't want Issler to be on the CSM, don't vote for him/her, back a candidate who holds his liquor better and doesn't violate the EULA and generally just be better at politics.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Copine Callmeknau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-05-19 16:24:23 UTC
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
I'll say before what I said on there

TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Youd've thought that if Goons didn't want this kind of slander, they'd have voted in their own representative for the CSM or something? Somebody to protect their interests? I mean, the concept of a CSM member slandering other people is obviously completely new!

Oh yeah... Roll


Furthermore, the concept of encouraging suicide and cyberbullying is far worse than merely slating the goons...

Her posts make me want to /wrists


Does that count?

There should be a rather awesome pic here

Malak Dawnfire
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2012-05-19 16:28:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Malak Dawnfire
The forums are in UPROAR over this treacherous act the CSM has pulled and thousands of angry players are filling the streets across the world in protest AND WE SHALL NOT STAND FOR THIS INJUSTICE!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW6wfXPeJTw
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-05-19 16:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Pok Nibin
Removing a CSM isn't a precedent. Mitt's departure may have been a first, but it's in their by-laws, or CSM EULA (whatever) which he clearly violated. Furthermore, he was allowed to resign before he was removed. This means he can run again. So, he's not gone.

The one who posted this response to Issler takes the extra step of admonishing and directing a person. That sort of egotistical overbearance rankles me every time I see it. Of course, now and then I do the same thing, but I'm JOKING, and what I suggest people DO is usually physically impossible...and naturally my reaction is to their reaction to my reaction to their reaction....

It's easy to understand Issler's frustration. For now, any new alliance near the Goons are starting the match laying flat on the mat with the Goons hovering overhead. Like Pierre Trudeau once said about the U.S., "When you're a flea living next to an elephant, every sneeze is significant." There really isn't enough in the quotes to clearly understand what went on, or is going on. So, allow me to speculate:

I've watched with great interest the results of Band of Brothers folding. Not to oversimplify, there was some pushing and shoving between three major alliances. Some sort of borders were established more along the lines of the reach of power attainable than it was on someone roundly defeating someone else. So, as much as the Goons like to squawk, they aren't the be-all, end-all out where they live. They seem to have given up on presenting much of a challenge to any null sec competition, and moved their activities to high sec where it can appear to them they're achieving some sort of success.

What people don't seem to realize is the management techniques and sort of personnel that make up the Goons don't lend themselves well to attaining much more than they've attained up to now. (Read some of the threads on ASPD to discover why this is.) Not much is said about the other alliances that seem to be in a position of conquest. At first blush it would seem an easy matter to take advantage of the Goons' shortcomings, of which the Goons are hardly aware. It could be those concerned don't yet realize this.

However, it could be those concerned aren't really concerned. An extended fight with the Goons to overthrow them in particular doesn't seem to be a valid goal for an alliance. If there's no Goon push to push back, why bother? If they've stopped being a threat (if they ever were, and the stronger alliances have said they don't really view the Goons as a threat to them) what would be the point? My point is, given this situation for an alliance to boldly move out into null sec, it might be a good idea to take all this into consideration. You'd have to be well-manned, and well-organized before the move. You'll almost certainly meet immediate resistance. If you're too strong, it's most likely they'll leave you alone. Win the war before it's fought.

All that being said, if you move out there and find yourself beset on all sides with little recourse, it's likely your move was too ambitious. It shouldn't matter if CSMs or GMs or ISDs or the president of Iceland is out there piloting against you. They are what they are, and that is what you'd be up against, regardless of your wishes and desires. Overcoming the fact that some EVE players have been in this game several years longer than others, and are operating with a decided advantage there is sufficient. There'd be no need to use "insider" power to mount a signficant challenge.

Like I said, I appreciate the frustration. The way I see it, any alliance strong enough to mount a challenge to the handful of most powerful alliances is doing it right. EVE may be a sandbox, but that level of play is playing the game. EVE is designed to be played a certain way at that level. The effort to make such a move would be a gargantuan effort - starting out small. And, the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step. Many people may want to do it. Not many will put in the effort it would require. I daresay those alliances out there would welcome a serious challenge to their abilities, organizational strength and membership activity.

TL;DR You're not going to just waltz out to the land of the big dogs and not become someone's lunch.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#19 - 2012-05-19 16:35:24 UTC
Quick!

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.......


Somebody call....

...oh good...thank god, somebody had the smarts enough to call the whambulance....I thought this thread needed it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#20 - 2012-05-19 16:38:33 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
Removing a CSM isn't a precedent. Mitt's departure may have been a first…
It wasn't a first. IIRC, he was the third CSM to be kicked out of office.
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