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A fix to inflation

Author
Ares Renton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-05-17 05:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Renton
There will always be inflation in EVE, unless there are enough money sinks that isk exits the game at the same rate that it enters. Clearly, this is a horrible idea, so we'll have to get used to an ever-increasing level of inflation.

CCP did an absolutely braindead move and tried to curb inflation by reducing income from bounties. All this does is punish players who have no money, and reward players who already have large reserves of wealth. What will they do when time wears on and the cracks continue to show? Cut bounties to 10%? 1%?

Instead, what CCP should be doing is increase the money rewarded from missions and bounties and increase the money sinks as well so the large reserves of wealth are no longer afflicting the economy as much. After all, what's worse for the economy? A player who makes 10 million isk/day by farming bounties and has 1 bil in the bank; or the alliance that makes 1 trillion isk/month farming moons and has 100 tril in the bank?

Cut from the top, not the bottom. It is both the most sensible and fair way to fix inflation, and the only effective way in the long run.
Luis Graca
#2 - 2012-05-17 05:50:40 UTC
when there's inflation it's because someone is making tons of cash in eve either they use it or they will end up like the NC. So whatever you saying it's pointless
Ares Renton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-05-17 06:01:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Renton
Whenever the economy is ****** up by someone making massive amounts of money, like how CCP ****** up with Moons and Incursions, CCP should just adjust the NPCs to allow the other players to catch up. By adjusting NPCs (how much they give and take) CCP can control the economy to get it back to normal so people will never have to (say) grind for a month straight to get a tech 1 ship. The effect this will have is that massive reservoirs of wealth become less valuable (but subtly so). Assuming CCP keeps adjusting the NPCs each year, they can prevent the economy from turning all wonky, assuming they don't screw it up again with another massive isk faucet.

People would start investing in solid assets, but since the minerals are being inflated too, it won't really make much of a difference (and CCP can increase ship construction costs as well if necessary).
Alara IonStorm
#4 - 2012-05-17 06:06:45 UTC
Ares Renton wrote:
Whenever the economy is ****** up by someone making massive amounts of money, like how CCP ****** up with Moons

How do moons hurt the economy. They do not a a single ISK into the game.
Ares Renton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-05-17 06:14:08 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Ares Renton wrote:
Whenever the economy is ****** up by someone making massive amounts of money, like how CCP ****** up with Moons

How do moons hurt the economy. They do not a a single ISK into the game.


They give certain power blocs a complete chokehold on the economy and the ability to build up massive reservoirs of wealth.

Not exactly inflation, but still flawed.
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
#6 - 2012-05-17 06:15:00 UTC
The only thing you are going to get out of CCP in the form of inflation fixes is either a %x cut in bounties or a %x increase in NPC taxes. Anything larger than that would be way too much work for something they couldn't sell an expansion around.

As far as CCP breaking the economy, anomalies / dominion did a lot more to bloat the ISK supply than incursions.
Malak Dawnfire
Unquestionable Prosperity
Grand Inquisitors Federation
#7 - 2012-05-17 06:19:45 UTC
Sometimes the best solution is the easiest: Delete all the Isk!ShockedShockedShocked
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-05-17 06:21:35 UTC
incursions were never a problem for the economy, just out of whack as far as the risk/reward balance goes

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

adam smash
Department of Gub'nent Welfare
Harkonnen Federation
#9 - 2012-05-17 06:42:08 UTC
The fix is to just stfu... or put a wallet cap... or taxs that scale with isk...

You have people now who have massive isk... and can use it to make TONS more and hold onto it and you have newer players or players who don't have as much time... who get screwed... so the guy running 10 accounts.... making massive isk... nerfing what he does only hurts the player with 1 account or 2...

Yes I know some is injecting isk and some is just moving it around but you need to look at it ALL... all these nerfs do are hurt the players who need isk.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-05-17 07:04:02 UTC
EVE Online is Latvia.

.

Lexmana
#11 - 2012-05-17 07:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Ares Renton wrote:
There will always be inflation in EVE, unless there are enough money sinks that isk exits the game at the same rate that it enters. Clearly, this is a horrible idea, so we'll have to get used to an ever-increasing level of inflation.

If you look carefully at data you will see that you are wrong. For most of EVEs existence there has actually been deflation and not inflation. Also, money entering the economy is not, perhaps, the biggest factor in a game like EVE. At least, there is no truth to the myth that the size of sinks should equal the size of faucets (I let you try to figure out why). Instead, velocity of money seems to be more important. You can check it all out in this devblog by CCP Recurve.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#12 - 2012-05-17 10:48:19 UTC
Ares Renton wrote:
There will always be inflation in EVE, unless there are enough money sinks that isk exits the game at the same rate that it enters. Clearly, this is a horrible idea, so we'll have to get used to an ever-increasing level of inflation.

CCP did an absolutely braindead move and tried to curb inflation by reducing income from bounties. All this does is punish players who have no money, and reward players who already have large reserves of wealth. What will they do when time wears on and the cracks continue to show? Cut bounties to 10%? 1%?

Instead, what CCP should be doing is increase the money rewarded from missions and bounties and increase the money sinks as well so the large reserves of wealth are no longer afflicting the economy as much. After all, what's worse for the economy? A player who makes 10 million isk/day by farming bounties and has 1 bil in the bank; or the alliance that makes 1 trillion isk/month farming moons and has 100 tril in the bank?

Cut from the top, not the bottom. It is both the most sensible and fair way to fix inflation, and the only effective way in the long run.


Curb inflation by printing more isk! You sir should work for the Federal Reserve.

Yeah there is an option when you put a moon harvester on a Technetium moon that lets you receive a "direct deposit" of isk into your wallet instead of technetium. /sarcasm

Yet another post by a noob who completely fails to understand the difference between the material economy and the isk economy. Don't feel so bad though, even some CCP employees "don't get it".

Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-05-17 11:07:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Savage Angel
I've never really seen much inflation in the long run, only fluctuation in prices. The current inflation in mineral prices will pass as the players adjust, as they always have. CCP knows exactly how much ISK is in the game per capita at any given time, and can adjust the market tax rate and contract fees to keep it fairly steady. They do a good job in the long term, but should not mess with short term variations.

Besides, one of the biggest ISK sinks in the game is not under their control. If you think about it, you will figure out where much of the ISK leaves the game. Hint: It can come back in at any time.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#14 - 2012-05-17 11:45:34 UTC
It doesn't really matter what CCP do to try and balance the economy, the players will always find a way to unbalance it. The only way we'll ever have a stable economy in EVE is if the players allow it to happen.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.

Karloth Valois
1st. Pariah Malefactor corp.
New Eden Yacht Club Group
#15 - 2012-05-17 12:04:29 UTC
Ares Renton wrote:
There will always be inflation in EVE, unless there are enough money sinks that isk exits the game at the same rate that it enters. Clearly, this is a horrible idea, so we'll have to get used to an ever-increasing level of inflation.

CCP did an absolutely braindead move and tried to curb inflation by reducing income from bounties. All this does is punish players who have no money, and reward players who already have large reserves of wealth. What will they do when time wears on and the cracks continue to show? Cut bounties to 10%? 1%?

Instead, what CCP should be doing is increase the money rewarded from missions and bounties and increase the money sinks as well so the large reserves of wealth are no longer afflicting the economy as much. After all, what's worse for the economy? A player who makes 10 million isk/day by farming bounties and has 1 bil in the bank; or the alliance that makes 1 trillion isk/month farming moons and has 100 tril in the bank?

Cut from the top, not the bottom. It is both the most sensible and fair way to fix inflation, and the only effective way in the long run.


So your mad that they cut your massive isk income from risk free L4 missions? thats a good thing, there should be less money to make in highsec. Plus you cant compare single players farming missions or ratting to the Tech holding alliances. For a start the money going to the single player is per person (and they make alot more than 10mill per day i used to make that in 30mins just ratting 0.0 belts alot more in L4 missions or complexs) where as the alliance income is going to an alliance or prehaps 1000 people. Plus you seem to think they are hording the ISK they get from tech, and dont have to pay sov bills, alliance bill, ship replacement funds, titans, supercarriers, POS fuel for 100s of POS's and Jump Bridges. It aint cheap

And again, no new isk enters the game from tech. a product enters the game, same as mining, that is then sold for isk that other players already brought into the game. If you really wanna **** with 0.0 tech income get all of highsec to stop buying it maybe? Of course Tech makes so much money because people need it...so you'd push tech prices down but the price of lots of other things up. And you'd need to organise all of highsec (where most tech is sold) and looking at the CSM that aint going to happen

It's not been nice, but thanks for using lube

Ares Renton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-05-17 17:29:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Renton
Quote:


Curb inflation by printing more isk! You sir should work for the Federal Reserve.

Yeah there is an option when you put a moon harvester on a Technetium moon that lets you receive a "direct deposit" of isk into your wallet instead of technetium. /sarcasm

Yet another post by a noob who completely fails to understand the difference between the material economy and the isk economy. Don't feel so bad though, even some CCP employees "don't get it".



Try to follow along, the point of the suggestion is to remove the negative effects of inflation on the players who grind for their loot.

And yes, nullsec alliances have more than enough money to pay for their bills and titans, and still have enough money to throw at things like an infinite (literally) number of ships for Burn Jita and infinite funding for Hulkageddon, so I don't think they should be complaining when their money gets devalued.

They get this money from Tech moons, and while it doesn't directly inject money into the economy, it does cause inflated prices, giving them the ability to control tech 2 production. Then they use their massive wealth to buy out incredible amounts of tech 1 ****, which makes the prices for that to spike too. And they do make their own money too, since they have access to the best rats.
Ares Renton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-05-17 17:37:28 UTC
Lexmana wrote:

If you look carefully at data you will see that you are wrong. For most of EVEs existence there has actually been deflation and not inflation. Also, money entering the economy is not, perhaps, the biggest factor in a game like EVE. At least, there is no truth to the myth that the size of sinks should equal the size of faucets (I let you try to figure out why). Instead, velocity of money seems to be more important. You can check it all out in this devblog by CCP Recurve.


CCP already addressed the issue of mineral inflation, and we've already seen the effects of that on the economy. I'd rather see a deflated economy than an inflated one. If there was no isk inflation, then CCP should have never made any changes to begin with.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#18 - 2012-05-17 17:41:35 UTC
Introduce a new tax.

2bn/mo to own a supercarrier and 10bn a month to own a Titan :D
terrly bronks
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-05-17 17:50:42 UTC
gank a miner things tend to go up :)

like threads like this every year during goon month lol

infation will chill in afew months after the miners recoop there losses lol


me and my 5 accounts don't mine during this heck rare to log in but to skill change

and I am sure there is a few more out there doing the same..


oh and btw have been ganked 0 times this way lol

Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-05-17 17:52:10 UTC
Too much money chasing too few goods. Gank all the miners, reduce the ore, reduce manufacturing...ah no...wait.

Reduce the value of rewards, increase the time it takes to obtain....uh....hold it.

Totally ignore the fact that getting into a decent BC used to take four months, now it takes eight (for beginners.) We may be onto something here. If we surgically remove the lobe of the brain that makes people annoyed with fruitless, repetitive behavior? Now we're getting high tech!

To quote Serene Repose (who's banned at present for saying a CCP employee was a girl...I'm sure it was a typo...) "Since CCP cannot control the money supply EVE is fated to inflation. Anyone who can dream up a solution to this qualifies for the Nobel in Economics" (and would be hired in a heartbeat at a fabulously HIGH income.)

If you cannot take ISK out of circulation, and cannot stop it being created, inflation will overtake the economy. It's just a matter of time. I'm sure this elephant in the room is not unseen. In fact, it looks like CCP's response is to buy it a dress and slap on some make-up...calling it their big sister. Want a date?

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

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