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New dev blog: Unified inventory

First post First post
Author
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#561 - 2012-05-15 12:37:59 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Hey folks.

I just wanted to restate what we said in the Dev blog for the Unified Inventory that we wanted to get feedback from those that use SiSi in order to address problems that would occur. We intended on following heavily up on the feedback, doing as much as possible before launch as well as doing even further iterations and fixes in the upcoming release. Team Game of Drones is committed to a new methodology of using the principals of User Centered Design, where the User Experience of our players drives our design decisions.

Not only did we collect all feedback from the Forums, personal posts, Twitter comments and other sources but we took the issues many of you like Grey Stormshadow, Tippia and other have been pointing out and created a User Testing plan which we facilitated last week. In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.

Once we had collected all the date from the tests we created stories and design updates which have either already been submitted to the next SiSi build, or we are actively working on or have been put into our backlog of work stories which we will address as priority stories before we start working on other features for next release.

I'm sorry if people that have given us feedback have felt we didn't listen in the past few days, I hope this post has re-instated that we actually listen and act accordingly and have simply been doing nothing else since the release of our blog. In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed.

Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us.


I have some feedback, I think the new inventory system in stations should remember "settings/placement/which windows are open"... What I am talking about here... if you like to have Ships hangar + items windows as two separate windows, the next time you open the inventory and/or dock at a station, the same windows are opened...

I wish the ship you were currently in, was still shown in the "ships hangar folder"... it is very confusing that it isn't
I am aware that you can just shift click to open new window... but I personly think that combining the hangar + items in a new window wasn't needed at this time and should be seperated (or make a icon we can add that opens ships hangar like before)

I like the new system for sorting the items, and searching through what you have and all that, it's mainly the active ship, and ships hangar that is bugging me.

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#562 - 2012-05-15 13:39:35 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
CCP Arrow wrote:
Hey folks.

I just wanted to restate what we said in the Dev blog for the Unified Inventory that we wanted to get feedback from those that use SiSi in order to address problems that would occur. We intended on following heavily up on the feedback, doing as much as possible before launch as well as doing even further iterations and fixes in the upcoming release. Team Game of Drones is committed to a new methodology of using the principals of User Centered Design, where the User Experience of our players drives our design decisions.

Not only did we collect all feedback from the Forums, personal posts, Twitter comments and other sources but we took the issues many of you like Grey Stormshadow, Tippia and other have been pointing out and created a User Testing plan which we facilitated last week. In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.

Once we had collected all the date from the tests we created stories and design updates which have either already been submitted to the next SiSi build, or we are actively working on or have been put into our backlog of work stories which we will address as priority stories before we start working on other features for next release.

I'm sorry if people that have given us feedback have felt we didn't listen in the past few days, I hope this post has re-instated that we actually listen and act accordingly and have simply been doing nothing else since the release of our blog. In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed.

Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us.


I have some feedback, I think the new inventory system in stations should remember "settings/placement/which windows are open"... What I am talking about here... if you like to have Ships hangar + items windows as two separate windows, the next time you open the inventory and/or dock at a station, the same windows are opened...

I wish the ship you were currently in, was still shown in the "ships hangar folder"... it is very confusing that it isn't
I am aware that you can just shift click to open new window... but I personly think that combining the hangar + items in a new window wasn't needed at this time and should be seperated (or make a icon we can add that opens ships hangar like before)

I like the new system for sorting the items, and searching through what you have and all that, it's mainly the active ship, and ships hangar that is bugging me.


after testing the new build on sisi. the windows do remember where and what size the last window you closed. but they dont remember that you stacked corp windows in 1 place and in 1 size and that you stacked items and ships in another place and size and wrecks in a different place and size etc etc.
the problem seams to be, the old system labled the windows and knew each one was different, the new system just thinks all windows are the same regardless of what you do with them. it also lables them all inventory:name of window. where it just needs the name of window.

the ship window needs to show all ship regardless of state, active, assembled or packaged, there ships it makes no sence for any of them not to be in the ship hanger.

add the fact that everytime you session change they all forget they were open and where they were open(see above) and anoyance levels increase.

i still find it anoying that items have lost there right click options, right click open cargo/bay/fuelbay etc etc shoudl be there and should open the window as it always did. i want stuff easy to find not hidden deep within the tree.

while this current build is better, it is in no way finished

OMG when can i get a pic here

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#563 - 2012-05-15 13:45:45 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
...and what kind of version are we expecting to see in tranq next week or will this project be delayed?


Going on Tranq next week!
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#564 - 2012-05-15 13:47:34 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
...and what kind of version are we expecting to see in tranq next week or will this project be delayed?


Going on Tranq next week!


ccp pushing out half finished stuff with reduced functionality?

again?

OMG when can i get a pic here

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#565 - 2012-05-15 13:48:39 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
...and what kind of version are we expecting to see in tranq next week or will this project be delayed?


Going on Tranq next week!


ccp pushing out half finished stuff with reduced functionality?

again?


Smoking Blunts being overly dramatic?

Again?
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#566 - 2012-05-15 13:50:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
...and what kind of version are we expecting to see in tranq next week or will this project be delayed?


Going on Tranq next week!
**** no. This abortion is in no way ready for release.

Where last year had Door-Gate, 2012 will have Inventory-Gate.

This is completely preventable if you hold off on releasing the changed Inventory management code.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#567 - 2012-05-15 13:50:46 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
...and what kind of version are we expecting to see in tranq next week or will this project be delayed?


Going on Tranq next week!


ccp pushing out half finished stuff with reduced functionality?

again?


Smoking Blunts being overly dramatic?

Again?



lol nah no weed smoked today.

the system thats on sisi now has and is missing functions that teh current tq system has. ive detailed them above, check it out bud

OMG when can i get a pic here

Jack Paladin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#568 - 2012-05-15 13:50:55 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:


Smoking Blunts being overly dramatic?

Again?


Reported. Drug Reference.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#569 - 2012-05-15 13:58:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Yep Sisi is till not remembering what windows I had opened before I undocked and then redocked. What?
Having to hold shift if I want to open up my cargo hold in a new window when using the ships own right click menu is just bad fuctionality.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#570 - 2012-05-15 14:04:24 UTC
should really call the ship hanger in the new system 'none active none packaged ship view'

OMG when can i get a pic here

Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#571 - 2012-05-15 14:23:07 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
...and what kind of version are we expecting to see in tranq next week or will this project be delayed?


Going on Tranq next week!


The internal build you're using has to have some serious super mario mushrooms in it then ;)

Anyway thanks for the enlightenment. At this point I'm really happy if these issues at least eventually will be fixed. Meanwhile I would recommend thinking why we are having this conversation week before release and is there something you guys could improve in the planning process of future UI related "improvements" to avoid this.

sidenote: If the sisi version of unification goes up as "it is" I probably will have couple weeks break rather than **** myself off with it, but that doesn't change the fact that the expansion as a whole will still be really awesome with plenty of cool stuff in it. Just don't allow this one thing to ruin that.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#572 - 2012-05-15 14:41:38 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
...and what kind of version are we expecting to see in tranq next week or will this project be delayed?


Going on Tranq next week!


ccp pushing out half finished stuff with reduced functionality?

again?


Smoking Blunts being overly dramatic?

Again?



lol nah no weed smoked today.

the system thats on sisi now has and is missing functions that teh current tq system has. ive detailed them above, check it out bud


Should be getting Sisi updates before Tranq!
Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#573 - 2012-05-15 14:42:34 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
...and what kind of version are we expecting to see in tranq next week or will this project be delayed?


Going on Tranq next week!


ccp pushing out half finished stuff with reduced functionality?

again?


Smoking Blunts being overly dramatic?

Again?



The trite answers aren't really needed at this time. There are legitimate concerns and it very much seems like you're rushing this out the door before it's ready.

As far as I know, the Sisi version isn't even debugged yet. (Windows undocking, opening in the wrong location, partial information propogation)
Have you addressed all the problems players have brought up, or can you promise that it will be done before release?

I wasn't concerned until I saw Tippia's video, and now I'm horrified you plan to release that - either as is, or partly fixed and inadequately tested.

So, which of the problems have you fixed, and how long are you giving them on Sisi to test?
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#574 - 2012-05-15 14:49:10 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:


Should be getting Sisi updates before Tranq!


cool i will be paying attention for them and as long as they address the issues i and others are havng with it, it will be a win for ccp customer comunication and that is something that can not be sniffed at.

OMG when can i get a pic here

Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#575 - 2012-05-15 15:18:53 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
...and what kind of version are we expecting to see in tranq next week or will this project be delayed?


Going on Tranq next week!


ccp pushing out half finished stuff with reduced functionality?

again?


Smoking Blunts being overly dramatic?

Again?


He just told the truth.
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#576 - 2012-05-15 15:32:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
Shandir wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
...and what kind of version are we expecting to see in tranq next week or will this project be delayed?


Going on Tranq next week!


ccp pushing out half finished stuff with reduced functionality?

again?


Smoking Blunts being overly dramatic?

Again?



The trite answers aren't really needed at this time. There are legitimate concerns and it very much seems like you're rushing this out the door before it's ready.

As far as I know, the Sisi version isn't even debugged yet. (Windows undocking, opening in the wrong location, partial information propogation)
Have you addressed all the problems players have brought up, or can you promise that it will be done before release?

I wasn't concerned until I saw Tippia's video, and now I'm horrified you plan to release that - either as is, or partly fixed and inadequately tested.

So, which of the problems have you fixed, and how long are you giving them on Sisi to test?


Dont forget Tippia what said for me. He just made a short video from problems he didn't talk many others problems.

"My excuse is that I only had 15 minutes and just went in chronological order of the things I found…"

PVPing is horrible with new rudimentary inventory system. This is an alpha phase developed thing, with many bugs, mistakes etc.
Need at least two months long testing phase before they moved to TQ server.
Just as i told, remove Hangarbay at station it's a mistake (HangarInventoryBay) need separated ship from any other modules.
Hard to handling this new in Inventory in many situation. Has bad funcionalty many times.
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#577 - 2012-05-15 15:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara
CCP Arrow wrote:
Hey folks.

I just wanted to restate what we said in the Dev blog for the Unified Inventory that we wanted to get feedback from those that use SiSi in order to address problems that would occur. We intended on following heavily up on the feedback, doing as much as possible before launch as well as doing even further iterations and fixes in the upcoming release. Team Game of Drones is committed to a new methodology of using the principals of User Centered Design, where the User Experience of our players drives our design decisions.

Not only did we collect all feedback from the Forums, personal posts, Twitter comments and other sources but we took the issues many of you like Grey Stormshadow, Tippia and other have been pointing out and created a User Testing plan which we facilitated last week. In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.

Once we had collected all the date from the tests we created stories and design updates which have either already been submitted to the next SiSi build, or we are actively working on or have been put into our backlog of work stories which we will address as priority stories before we start working on other features for next release.

I'm sorry if people that have given us feedback have felt we didn't listen in the past few days, I hope this post has re-instated that we actually listen and act accordingly and have simply been doing nothing else since the release of our blog. In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed.

Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us.


This is good to hear, as I was starting to wonder if it was going to become an annual ritual of CCP to shoot itself in the head with it's Hubris of not listening to player feedback and killing it's subscriber base with it's summer release.

I cannot help but think CCP has not yet fully recovered from last summers Incarna debacle, simply because what was once the pitchline of CCP was it's constantly increasing subscriber base, then when those numbers went in the toilet ,we were no longer able to access and track the number of logins and subscribers.If those numbers are available once again i'd love to know.

I DO pay my monthly subscription fee, so I do want the game to succeed, but I can say that I have played a lot less in the last year and many people I know have played a lot less, have taken a long Hiatus ,and some are only coming back now, people I haven't seen online since last summer. I would hate to see peopele get that bad taste in their mouth once again and either unsub, or just be subbed and never logon till the point somewhere down the road they feel they no longer want to pay 15 dollars a month for the privelege of skill training in a game they stopped playing months earlier.

I like the game, to an extent I like the people, but , to be honest, as an older player, I dont share the appreciation of the value of " tears" which seems to be such a motivating factor for so many younger players, and I also dont feel like constantly relearning a game i spent time to become proficient at.

CCP seeks to keep its game pertinent and fresh by changing elements of it so it doesn't become stagnant. This I understand and condone.What I don't want to do is relearn the game every 12 months and its interface. In short I want a game , not a chore.The new interface makes the game a chore again, and takes away much of what has been a comfort zone for longtime players.CCP has a succesful game, Dunno what makes them think they can constantly reinvent it and every time they it will be a hit. That's not the case as Incarna taught us. Whoever at CCP is spreading the Gospel of reinventing the game needs to be brought under check, as this person has too much influence on game design. Improve it, dont reinvent it. Certain CCP personell may enjoy using the player base as labrats in social experiments, " hey lets mess crap up and see how they react, that will freshen the game up",and while that may be amusing to a certain type of person to have control over others, its not the experience I am looking for when logging on to play a game I have played for years. Its should be obvious that if people are playing for YEARS, that familiarity and comfort are a key draw to them.Changing fundamental interface mechanics changes the entire player experience, and is a gamble itself as far as maintaining player loyalty and playerbase.

Changes, tweaks, Progress, content. This is what we want.This constant attempt at the reinvention of the wheel is eventually going to be opposed by a loyal core of people who are simple tooled and machined for the old " wheel" and just don't want or need a new one, and if forced may simply move on to something different entirely.

This massive Enraging of the player base once a year by what is perceived to be CCP Hubris will be it's undoing if it continues.Older players in particular will not keep returning in good faith,if they see the writing on the wall, and older players in particular are not inclined to suffer fools gladly.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#578 - 2012-05-15 15:48:53 UTC
By the way…
CCP Arrow wrote:
In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.
…aside from the slight O_o at you not believing what we say, should we interpret this as it being better to do what I did and record and actually show you the problems we find rather than just write them up in the classic test feedback way?

I mean, sure, we're talking about a visual interface so visuals are probably quite handy, and if a picture is worth 1,000 words, I suppose a video is worth 24,000 words a second… but still, it's a fair bit more work so does it actually have any added value to you?
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#579 - 2012-05-15 16:12:16 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
...and what kind of version are we expecting to see in tranq next week or will this project be delayed?


Going on Tranq next week!


ccp pushing out half finished stuff with reduced functionality?

again?


Smoking Blunts being overly dramatic?

Again?

I think this remark is arrogant uncalled for. With the very strong history of bad releases only to be followed by a series of patches and hot fixes and basic scrambling to fix production code, I don't see how you can say that the comment of a paying customer is overly dramatic. Or have you forgotten all the rocky patches and the utter chaos and public outcry that typically enused?

If you pump out this code in it's current state, I hope you are ready for the repercussions. My personal feeling is that it is not usable for all the reasons repeatedly stated by many players. (At least as of yesterday - maybe better today - who knows?) Or have you failed to notice that none of the player base thinks this inventory system is ready for production ?

Lastly, due to HulkaG V, we have switched to mining in Rokhs. Do you have any idea how click intensive Rokh mining is ? This new system is giving me a strong incentive to play other games because it makes a click intensive operation far far worse.

CCP Arrow
C C P
C C P Alliance
#580 - 2012-05-15 16:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Arrow
Tippia wrote:
By the way…
CCP Arrow wrote:
In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.
…aside from the slight O_o at you not believing what we say, should we interpret this as it being better to do what I did and record and actually show you the problems we find rather than just write them up in the classic test feedback way?

I mean, sure, we're talking about a visual interface so visuals are probably quite handy, and if a picture is worth 1,000 words, I suppose a video is worth 24,000 words a second… but still, it's a fair bit more work so does it actually have any added value to you?


What I said was, it's not that we don't believe you when you say that there is a problem, we do believe you, but instead of acting directly on the feedback we get on the forums, we need to recreate the situation players are describing so that we see the problems in action. This allows us to make design decisions that are more accurate than trying to interpret what we read on the forums and directly implement fixes based on that.

So yes, getting videos where you both do something and say what you are doing and what you are thinking while doing it is very useful, it's exactly what we get in the User Tests. The reason we also do User Testing is so that we can compare multiple participants doing the same tasks, having different background, experience and play styles. We need to compare all those different use cases to each other to make sure we cater the solutions to as many types of players as possible. That is our goal, but it is a hard one as you can imagine.

TL;DR: We believe you

CCP Arrow   |   Director of User Experience   |   EVE Online   |   @CCP_Arrow