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Wormhole "Traffic Control" collapses WHs without traveling through them
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Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#1 - 2012-05-11 09:39:48 UTC
So apparently this is a known issue, but it happened to me today in an unmistakable way. I had a WH from highsec to nullsec, capable of 1mil kg per crossing, and 2mil kg mass total. I took two freighters to the entrance in highsec, and jumped simultaneously into nullsec. Both freighters received the WH collapse message of "The WH has collapsed behind you. Have you become trapped" but neither freighter left highsec at all. They were hit with Traffic Control messages, with that meaningless countdown timer.

Now we've all gotten traffic control before. Normally all you do is try to jump again, but with WHs you don't get that opportunity. WHs subtract mass from them before checking to see if you completed the trip. Thus I was able to fly up to the WH, and collapse it without going through it at all.

If anyone can reproducibly figure out how to achieve traffic control messages then this could be considered an exploit by allowing WH dwellers to collapse any WH at will, without traveling through them. For me it was a massive inconvenience though... so I wanted those freighters in nullsec.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-05-11 12:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Quote:
WHs subtract mass from them before checking to see if you completed the trip.


^this isnt true anymore.
they used to do that but people found you could use that to safely collapse WHs by hitting jump and logging before jump completed.
was reported to CCP and fixed a few patches ago, WHs now subtract mass after you load the system you jump into.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-05-11 14:36:43 UTC
what jack said. i think some AHARM guys identified it as an exploit and then reported it. they found out that you could press jump and then just log off before you went through and it still subtracted the mass.

thats why now when you collapse a wormhole it takes 5 seconds longer than before to disapear. its fixed now btw
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#4 - 2012-05-11 14:42:10 UTC
Then how did it happen to the OP? Unless he just felt like telling lies on the forums, I don't see a way to explain his story other than traffic control messages still causing this bug.

.
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#5 - 2012-05-11 14:47:49 UTC
I don't have any "before" pictures because I wasn't anticipating any problems. But here are the after pictures showing traffic control on both freighters in Ignebaener after they attempted a jump to Z-K495 up in Branch.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1205/2012.05.10.21.22.24.jpg
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1205/2012.05.10.21.22.23.jpg

Both received the collapse message but never left highsec. This problem still exists.
Zensige
B00sh Industries
#6 - 2012-05-11 15:23:34 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
what jack said. i think some AHARM guys identified it as an exploit and then reported it. they found out that you could press jump and then just log off before you went through and it still subtracted the mass.

thats why now when you collapse a wormhole it takes 5 seconds longer than before to disapear. its fixed now btw




K162 found and reported an exploit, how ironic. Cool
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#7 - 2012-05-11 16:03:05 UTC
Zensige wrote:
K162 found and reported an exploit, how ironic. Cool


I know, that's only like the second time.

http://www.wormholes.info
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#8 - 2012-05-11 16:09:39 UTC
Quote:
if anyone can reproducibly figure out how to achieve traffic control messages then this could be considered an exploit by allowing WH dwellers to collapse any WH at will


You'll find CCP stopped caring to fix wormhole bugs a few years back, abandoned just like FW.
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-05-11 16:30:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarak1 Kenpach1
i think that traffic control message adds another layer of checking to the process that CCP did not think about when they made the changes to keep folks from doing it via logging off. it does indeed appear like this traffic control usurps the current subroutines in charge of making the wh masses act right.

oh well! at least its not as useful for offensive/defensive purposes as it once was. traffic control is pretty random especially out in highsec where folks arent moving about based on battles etc and just moving about willy nilly transporting ****
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#10 - 2012-05-11 22:57:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jita Bloodtear
Okay, so this will make some of you feel much better. The GMs see no problem, everything is working as intended.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#11 - 2012-05-11 23:46:55 UTC
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
Okay, so this will all make you feel much better. The GMs see no problem, everything is working as intended.



Only one person in this is butthurt. Saying "all" is just dumb.
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#12 - 2012-05-11 23:53:55 UTC
Edited to make it better?

It's just rather frustrating to have GMs defending game bugs, handing out misinformation stating that things are working as intended when they're not. Right now I'm being told that ships cannot pass through a WH if their mass is greater than the remaining Max Stable Mass of a WH. Which unless game mechanics have changed recently, that's never been true. WHs have always let the last ship through, and then collapsed behind them.

I'm also being told that ships can collapse WHs without actually passing through them. If that's the case it's an extremely interesting development, and I'd be satisfied with that answer.
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#13 - 2012-05-12 00:11:10 UTC
Okay, so I'm being told there were changes to WH mechanics in the last 6 months which changed how the death of a WH is handled. In the past you could always squeeze the last ship through so long as the WH still existed, and then it would collapse behind you. Apparently now that last ship will no longer be able to pass through the WH. The ship will receive a Traffic Control message, and it'll receive the "The WH has collapsed behind you. Have you become trapped?" message. They should probably revise these messages to more accurately reflect what's actually happening.

You can collapse WHs without actually passing through them.
Devai Starchild
Starchild Engineering
#14 - 2012-05-12 00:27:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Devai Starchild
Looking at it from a logical perspective, the change doesn't make much sense to me. If you aren't passing through it, how is it being closed?
Mirrodin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-05-12 00:42:08 UTC
It's VERY rare and unlikely, but not impossible that when you tried to jump, the WH was already dying (EOL), there may have still been something showing in space, but when you hit Jump, it checked for it's life-timer and realized it didn't exist.

Just one possibility.
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#16 - 2012-05-12 03:00:33 UTC
Mirrodin wrote:
It's VERY rare and unlikely, but not impossible that when you tried to jump, the WH was already dying (EOL), there may have still been something showing in space, but when you hit Jump, it checked for it's life-timer and realized it didn't exist.

Just one possibility.


I've had this happen to me, but the message is different. It says something along the lines of "This wormhole has already closed."

http://www.wormholes.info
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#17 - 2012-05-12 04:50:51 UTC
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
In the past you could always squeeze the last ship through so long as the WH still existed, and then it would collapse behind you. Apparently now that last ship will no longer be able to pass through the WH.



Thats simple false. I closed wh in the past days with a MWD raven that had less that 50mill left. So, no. Still works as the suposued change.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#18 - 2012-05-12 05:14:16 UTC
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
In the past you could always squeeze the last ship through so long as the WH still existed, and then it would collapse behind you. Apparently now that last ship will no longer be able to pass through the WH.



Thats simple false. I closed wh in the past days with a MWD raven that had less that 50mill left. So, no. Still works as the suposued change.

Are you suggesting that a GM would be wrong about a simple game mechanic, and just lie to get rid of the petition? That's unthinkable! And yet still exactly what we were thinking. The ingame messages don't correspond with what he told me at all. He never explained why I got traffic control either. Nor why both freighters got all the messages, when if things were as he said only one would have....
Sola Mercury
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-05-12 09:00:54 UTC
Escalate the petition.
Kakkori Mekk
Sug min Kruul
#20 - 2012-05-12 11:25:19 UTC
We had this happen a few days ago when closing a C2->C2 wormhole. We opened the hole ourselves and only had a covops go through and back. The hole should have 2,000,000,000 mass limit. We use orcas to close and we usually go like this:

2 orcas through and back: 1,000,000,00 mass
wait 4 minutes
2 orcas through: 1,500,000,000 mass
1 orca back with mwd on: 1,800,000,000 mass
last orca back with mwd on: 2,100,000,000 mass, and the wormhole collapses.

This has NEVER been a problem before, until I got that message a few days ago and one orca got stuck on the wrong side. I probed it out so it was no biggie, but it was clearly a bug. I have done miscalculations before and it always brings you the "The wormhole has collapsed" message when you cannot go through, never the traffic control one. It definitely seems that the mass calculation for the hole thinks the ship went through, but traffic control doesn't let you. This was a first time for me, and I really want to have it confirmed and fixed, or I definitely will stop using orcas to close wormholes..
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