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CCP employees must be removed from the game.

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Freggan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#341 - 2012-05-09 12:02:25 UTC
Like anything in life if anyone fails a dis-advantage test then there is literally something unfair. So saying that I do really need to point out this is a game and by definition has looser standards than what we live by.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#342 - 2012-05-09 12:10:44 UTC
CCP Arkanon wrote:
As before, any suspicion of developer misconduct can be reported to Internal Affairs via email or petition. Our email is internalaffairs@ccpgames.com

That said, please note that we'll need something to go on, an event or character to look into. It's too common that we receive complaints which are based on a gut feeling, that can't be followed up on.


To play devil's advocate here, the likelyhood of an outsider dealing with the effect of misconduct ever being able to provide proof is almost impossible. It would always be at best a gut feeling.

Anyone inside of an alliance, particularly a multi thousand man alliance with the ability to use a CCP insider for information, reaping the benefits would be foolish to come forward with proof. I mean who inside of the Swarm would risk the permanent wrath of those thousands of people permanently in EVE? What proof could even they provide unless they were hands on with the scam? If one man claimed such and 7999 claimed otherwise whos really going to win? If 8000 people told ccp drop the investigation or we will all quit and cost you millions what's really going to happen?

I have faith in CCP to handle things I suppose, but an incident has happened in the past, not a minor one either. There are valid points being made.
Milla Lekarariba
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#343 - 2012-05-09 12:25:02 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
I'm mostly a hi sec player with an occasional roam into low when I get my buddies online. Having said that I seriously think that hi sec should quit whining and do something about it themselves. The supposed people who represent hi-sec players in the CSM could use their visibility to create some chaos at least. I'm not a huge fan of the goons, but at least they play and they have fun. If we don't like it we'd better show up or shut up.


This 100%

Goons are doing new and ground breaking things, and CCP are taking advantage of this, for example look at the Burn Jita dev blog to see all the things they have been able to learn from that one GOON event.

The thing is, there is nothing stopping any one player from creating a new alliance, and do new things like the Goons, just need leadership and isk.

Band of Brothers were once in a similar position, there were many issues regarding Dev favoritism, but I do not think Goons are the same, and would like to think that the devs learned from this, but again I say this, Goons are doing things that no-one else does, in a normal MMO they would be banned and outed in seconds, CCP love Goons, but not in the bad way that many people seem to think.

CCP love goons because they constantly test the game, they push the boundaries, find those loopholes, bugs and exploits for which CCP can then correct.

People really need to see the bigger picture here
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#344 - 2012-05-09 12:29:56 UTC
Atomic Virulent wrote:
Given the knowledge, information and other abilities that ANY CCP employee has at their fingertips, it would be prudent, fair and HONEST to prohibit CCP employees from participating in the game.


Don't be silly. As is shown by the latest disaster on SiSi (Unified Inventory), most of the Devs don't have have a clue how people play the game as it is. If you stop the rest of them playing, God help us....
Comrade Obamba
State War Academy
Caldari State
#345 - 2012-05-09 12:48:06 UTC
The answer is to quit the game. If you don't like it quit in protest and go elsewhere for your gaming pleasure. There are tons of other games out there. The only thing threads like this do is give goons wanking material.
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#346 - 2012-05-09 13:00:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Fabulousli Obvious
Milla Lekarariba wrote:


People really need to see the bigger picture here



This game involves something called ISK.

Look at the income CFC gets just in a single day from their Preciouses (moons). And that's just moons. They get POCO taxes too, and apparently all T2 production soon.

Now add up the high sec incomes in total.

That's why nothing gets done.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#347 - 2012-05-09 16:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Ungabungas
1. You can get into a GSF member corp by breathing. (No offence member corps, you just can't screen for ****. Of course, we can't either but our stringent :10bux: policy saves us from all but the most determined infiltrators.)

2. This is why we are riddled with spies from rival alliances who would love to bring us down, and they won't suddenly get inside and go 'oh ****, this is pretty amazing - I'm gonna not destroy them like I planned all along.'

3. If hard evidence of corruption was discovered, of course CCP would act on it because if they didn't, they'd end up on the front page of the media again getting a torrent of negative press while everyone quit around them. This is the main reason CCP reacted last time and it got us IA and the CSM. (although I am a fan of CCP, they do have a tendency to stick their head in the stand when bad things are happening.)

4. What negative wrath are you talking about? The vast majority of goons in GSF would hate the idea that we're getting unfair assistance, including (I trust) most of our alliance leadership. You might recall we actively worked to bring down another alliance for -just this behavior- so it is bizarre that you think we'd suddenly go 'oh well, we've got a few more players now, lets fire up the cheating engine.'

Your argument (like all the others in this thrad) is "they have lots of players and they do things I don't like so OF COURSE they are probably doing bad stuff' and you repeat it while choosing to ignore all the evidence that contradicts your theory.
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#348 - 2012-05-09 16:28:08 UTC
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
Milla Lekarariba wrote:


People really need to see the bigger picture here



This game involves something called ISK.

Look at the income CFC gets just in a single day from their Preciouses (moons). And that's just moons. They get POCO taxes too, and apparently all T2 production soon.

Now add up the high sec incomes in total.

That's why nothing gets done.


1. Everyone knows Hilmar is very susceptible to bribes in Isk. We roll up to Jita 4-4 and contract him stacks of technetium plated golems in exchange for.. well actually, that's the thing. Unlike BoB we don't -have- any T2 BPO's or anything we've gained or exploited unfairly.

2. GSF has been lobbying to get moon mining 'fixed' since they ****** up technetium in the first place. And even as we're lobbying, we're trying to figure out how to run our alliance after it's fixed because running a large alliance is ******* expensive.

3. The only reason you even know how much GSF earns is that we were the first alliance in eve to open our books to the public. No one from high sec had ever seen inside a large alliance before.

4. If we really had a direct line to CCP leadership, all the changes we lobbied for in the CSM would already be done. Instead, very few of them are done and as we don't have seats on the CSM anymore it's unlikely they will be. Make sure you check the minutes to see how hard the post-GSF CSM is working to correct things like this. (Rather than wanting more armour on hulks.)
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#349 - 2012-05-09 18:56:29 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Sreegs
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
CCP Arkanon wrote:
As before, any suspicion of developer misconduct can be reported to Internal Affairs via email or petition. Our email is internalaffairs@ccpgames.com

That said, please note that we'll need something to go on, an event or character to look into. It's too common that we receive complaints which are based on a gut feeling, that can't be followed up on.


To play devil's advocate here, the likelyhood of an outsider dealing with the effect of misconduct ever being able to provide proof is almost impossible. It would always be at best a gut feeling.

Anyone inside of an alliance, particularly a multi thousand man alliance with the ability to use a CCP insider for information, reaping the benefits would be foolish to come forward with proof. I mean who inside of the Swarm would risk the permanent wrath of those thousands of people permanently in EVE? What proof could even they provide unless they were hands on with the scam? If one man claimed such and 7999 claimed otherwise whos really going to win? If 8000 people told ccp drop the investigation or we will all quit and cost you millions what's really going to happen?

I have faith in CCP to handle things I suppose, but an incident has happened in the past, not a minor one either. There are valid points being made.


To play real guy in the real world here I typically don't formulate any kind of a conclusion unless there's some evidence that this conclusion actually exists. I certainly wouldn't toss about disparaging claims (some might say slanderous) about individual's honesty or ability to perform their job based on what my "gut" told me about someone I'd never met and knew only as a vague figure over the internet.

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, but hey we all march to the beat of our own drums I suppose.

:edit: Go to your local police station and tell them your gut's telling you something fishy's going on with the local government. Make a really angry post on the internet about how they're part of the grand conspiracy when they explain to you that they can't help you because you've given them nothing to go on.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#350 - 2012-05-09 19:07:40 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:


[...]

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, but hey we all march to the beat of our own drums I suppose.

:edit: Go to your local police station and tell them your gut's telling you something fishy's going on with the local government. Make a really angry post on the internet about how they're part of the grand conspiracy when they explain to you that they can't help you because you've given them nothing to go on.



Dev-burn, best burn.Twisted

Ni.
Andrey Wartooth
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#351 - 2012-05-09 19:09:24 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
CCP Arkanon wrote:
As before, any suspicion of developer misconduct can be reported to Internal Affairs via email or petition. Our email is internalaffairs@ccpgames.com

That said, please note that we'll need something to go on, an event or character to look into. It's too common that we receive complaints which are based on a gut feeling, that can't be followed up on.


To play devil's advocate here, the likelyhood of an outsider dealing with the effect of misconduct ever being able to provide proof is almost impossible. It would always be at best a gut feeling.

Anyone inside of an alliance, particularly a multi thousand man alliance with the ability to use a CCP insider for information, reaping the benefits would be foolish to come forward with proof. I mean who inside of the Swarm would risk the permanent wrath of those thousands of people permanently in EVE? What proof could even they provide unless they were hands on with the scam? If one man claimed such and 7999 claimed otherwise whos really going to win? If 8000 people told ccp drop the investigation or we will all quit and cost you millions what's really going to happen?

I have faith in CCP to handle things I suppose, but an incident has happened in the past, not a minor one either. There are valid points being made.


To play real guy in the real world here I typically don't formulate any kind of a conclusion unless there's some evidence that this conclusion actually exists. I certainly wouldn't toss about disparaging claims (some might say slanderous) about individual's honesty or ability to perform their job based on what my "gut" told me about someone I'd never met and knew only as a vague figure over the internet.

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, but hey we all march to the beat of our own drums I suppose.

:edit: Go to your local police station and tell them your gut's telling you something fishy's going on with the local government. Make a really angry post on the internet about how they're part of the grand conspiracy when they explain to you that they can't help you because you've given them nothing to go on.


I love you Sreegs, come back and talk to us.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#352 - 2012-05-09 19:10:10 UTC
devpoaned
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#353 - 2012-05-09 19:12:32 UTC
That was... interesting.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Davor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#354 - 2012-05-09 19:16:20 UTC
Lets see if I got this straight; Goons fight for years to make the game more balanced and fair to the "little guys," wow CCP with their bright ideas about this horrible game, then t20 themselves instantly upon reaching #1 power bloc status. ~*leans back*~

Yep, seems feasible.
Vxrasa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#355 - 2012-05-09 19:18:02 UTC
CCP Sreegs: He is in your thread, controlling your game, having weird mind-sex with your mother. Like a fat Lucifer, he dons the mighty Air-man costume of drunken fanfest presentations and proceeds to spew forth light and glory on all of thy posts.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#356 - 2012-05-09 19:20:05 UTC
As long as CCP members play fair then they are no different than any other player.

If there are people in CCP cheering on the Goons, then I am sure there are people in CCP scorning them.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Andrey Wartooth
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#357 - 2012-05-09 19:21:46 UTC
Vxrasa wrote:
CCP Sreegs: He is in your thread, controlling your game, having weird mind-sex with your mother. Like a fat Lucifer, he dons the mighty Air-man costume of drunken fanfest presentations and proceeds to spew forth light and glory on all of thy posts.


I heard he wasn't fat anymore, because Icelandic food is gross.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#358 - 2012-05-09 19:23:22 UTC
Davor wrote:
Lets see if I got this straight; Goons fight for years to make the game more balanced and fair to the "little guys," wow CCP with their bright ideas about this horrible game, then t20 themselves instantly upon reaching #1 power bloc status. ~*leans back*~

Yep, seems feasible.

It's the EVEO forums, the sky's the limit here.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#359 - 2012-05-09 19:37:30 UTC
Yes, it's a conflict of interest, but it's a stupid move to bring the Goons or any other corp into your argument. You've now made this mostly about a particular group.

Anyway yes, CCP should be allowed to play the game, obviously, but (IMO) they should only be allowed in NPC corps, or corps that are CCP-only (and known only to CCP employees that the corp is CCP-only). That corp (or corps) should keep a low profile, and not get (too) involved in major conflicts, etc.
Cathrine Kenchov
Ice Cold Ellites
#360 - 2012-05-09 19:56:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Cathrine Kenchov
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
CCP Arkanon wrote:
As before, any suspicion of developer misconduct can be reported to Internal Affairs via email or petition. Our email is internalaffairs@ccpgames.com

That said, please note that we'll need something to go on, an event or character to look into. It's too common that we receive complaints which are based on a gut feeling, that can't be followed up on.


To play devil's advocate here, the likelyhood of an outsider dealing with the effect of misconduct ever being able to provide proof is almost impossible. It would always be at best a gut feeling.

Anyone inside of an alliance, particularly a multi thousand man alliance with the ability to use a CCP insider for information, reaping the benefits would be foolish to come forward with proof. I mean who inside of the Swarm would risk the permanent wrath of those thousands of people permanently in EVE? What proof could even they provide unless they were hands on with the scam? If one man claimed such and 7999 claimed otherwise whos really going to win? If 8000 people told ccp drop the investigation or we will all quit and cost you millions what's really going to happen?

I have faith in CCP to handle things I suppose, but an incident has happened in the past, not a minor one either. There are valid points being made.


To play real guy in the real world here I typically don't formulate any kind of a conclusion unless there's some evidence that this conclusion actually exists. I certainly wouldn't toss about disparaging claims (some might say slanderous) about individual's honesty or ability to perform their job based on what my "gut" told me about someone I'd never met and knew only as a vague figure over the internet.

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, but hey we all march to the beat of our own drums I suppose.

:edit: Go to your local police station and tell them your gut's telling you something fishy's going on with the local government. Make a really angry post on the internet about how they're part of the grand conspiracy when they explain to you that they can't help you because you've given them nothing to go on.


Burrrrrrrrn

:edit: you may continue playing, CCP Screegs, but only if you continue to make sick burns like that to terrible questions & statements