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New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

First post First post
Author
Farys
Perkone
Caldari State
#2041 - 2012-05-06 09:50:49 UTC
Keri Stardust wrote:
As it is now, no cruiser skills are required to train battle cruisers (to fly them sure, but not to train the book)

What would happen to people who have BC V and no cruiser skills at all?

Since the cruisers are required for the battlecruisers skill only, not actually required for the ship, you'll be fine.

As long as you meet the top-level prereqs, even if they change the inner ones, it won't matter.
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated
#2042 - 2012-05-07 00:28:15 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:


It goes far beyond simply unappealing. It is simply not practical. We've got dozens of battlecruisers in the wormhole we live in and potentially nobody would even be able to fly them for months. The best solution is not to reimburse BC/Destroyer SP but to give everyone the racial skills at the level they have them trained when the books are seeded.

-Liang


easily solvable with a grace period during which the old skill will work and which give you time to train the new ones to level 4, after which the original skill is terminated and SP reimbursed to be used wherever you want


Bull. Because that means I'm forced, as it were, to train these skills back up within the existing grace period (at the penalty of forfeit if I choose not to), whereas my current neural remap may not all be set for that. People *do* plan ahead, you know!?


CCP Soundwave wrote:
No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today".


Well, that's cute, but what is really required is "What you could potentially fly today, you should potentially be able to fly tomorrow." Meaning, if today I had, say, all prerequisites to start tranining Minmatar Battleship, but hadn't actually done so, that tomorrow I should still be able to train it without sudden extra/new requirements. Otherwise you're still taking away (and severely so), only in a less obvious and immediate manner.

-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP

Keri Stardust
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2043 - 2012-05-07 16:28:18 UTC
Farys wrote:
Keri Stardust wrote:
As it is now, no cruiser skills are required to train battle cruisers (to fly them sure, but not to train the book)

What would happen to people who have BC V and no cruiser skills at all?

Since the cruisers are required for the battlecruisers skill only, not actually required for the ship, you'll be fine.

As long as you meet the top-level prereqs, even if they change the inner ones, it won't matter.


I understand that part, but how would they reassign the skills, like for example would I get BCV for all 4 races? even though currently I can't sit in any battle cruiser as I have no cruiser skills trained at all, just BCV. they make mention of if you could use it now then you will be able to use it after, but as i can't use them now, do i just lose the skill?







Hena Muri
Perkone
Caldari State
#2044 - 2012-05-09 00:18:52 UTC
Keri Stardust wrote:
Farys wrote:
Keri Stardust wrote:
As it is now, no cruiser skills are required to train battle cruisers (to fly them sure, but not to train the book)

What would happen to people who have BC V and no cruiser skills at all?

Since the cruisers are required for the battlecruisers skill only, not actually required for the ship, you'll be fine.

As long as you meet the top-level prereqs, even if they change the inner ones, it won't matter.


I understand that part, but how would they reassign the skills, like for example would I get BCV for all 4 races? even though currently I can't sit in any battle cruiser as I have no cruiser skills trained at all, just BCV. they make mention of if you could use it now then you will be able to use it after, but as i can't use them now, do i just lose the skill?



I suspect in this specific case they would refund the SP. Though, this situation is strange as in order to fly a BC you have to have cruiser 3. You don't need BC for anything that doesn't also require cruiser so training BC to any notable level (4 or 5) means putting a lot of time into a skill that's useless to you without a days worth of training in at least one race of cruiser...

I suspect that "plenty of notice" they refered to means that if you keep watching, you'll have plenty of time to get to cruiser 3 on each race that you want BC V with.

However, unless they want to annoy the RP players that intentionally avoid cross-training, they have to have a secondary qualifier on these skills. Cruisers makes sense because it fits there "if you can fly it now you can fly it after" policy. I don't believe they have an opprotunity cost policy and these changes sound specifically like they are altering the opprotunity cost to get in various vessels. So, if your long term plan doesn't let you get into them, and you're unwilling to train un-optomized for a couple of days, then you probably need to accept that it will be more expensive later. Not sure this is something CCP should be concerned about as real life often does this so people should be used to it now.

_WAter_



Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated
#2045 - 2012-05-09 17:25:44 UTC
Hena Muri wrote:
Cruisers makes sense because it fits there "if you can fly it now you can fly it after" policy. I don't believe they have an opprotunity cost policy and these changes sound specifically like they are altering the opprotunity cost to get in various vessels. So, if your long term plan doesn't let you get into them, and you're unwilling to train un-optomized for a couple of days, then you probably need to accept that it will be more expensive later. Not sure this is something CCP should be concerned about as real life often does this so people should be used to it now.


As I already stated above, I don't like that at all. Min/maxers like myself carefully use neural remaps in our planning ahead. CCP shouldn't screw with that. If I have already trained BC V, and remapped to somethuing other than perception/willpower, I should not suddenly -- and thru no fault of my own -- be forced, as it were, to train suboptimally to re-acquire something I already had.

-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP

Syris Khaeraan
Undefined Probabilities
#2046 - 2012-05-11 05:07:09 UTC
I trained Heavy assault ship to IV (Which is a class of ship i never wanted to fly) only to get to the command ships.


Will there be a refund or something for the "now useless" intermediary skills along the line for some ships?

If u think about it, i now have 257k SP totally "wasted" when the change will it us...

For some ppl it may be nothing, but for character with less than 20M SP its still some SP u might not want... at least for now.

Sidenote: Saw nothing about t2 ship skill refunds... if i was simply blind, point me in the right direction?
Tiger's Spirit
Perkone
Caldari State
#2047 - 2012-05-14 12:52:22 UTC
Syris Khaeraan wrote:
I trained Heavy assault ship to IV (Which is a class of ship i never wanted to fly) only to get to the command ships.


Will there be a refund or something for the "now useless" intermediary skills along the line for some ships?

If u think about it, i now have 257k SP totally "wasted" when the change will it us...

For some ppl it may be nothing, but for character with less than 20M SP its still some SP u might not want... at least for now.

Sidenote: Saw nothing about t2 ship skill refunds... if i was simply blind, point me in the right direction?



Dont forget the Warfare Link Specialist IV :D
But i think this ship changes wont come with May 22 patch.
Jitoru
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2048 - 2012-05-14 22:18:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jitoru
Hello everyone,
I have to say: I wanted to read the whole thread before answering... but after the 20th , that was obviously ignoring the posts of ccp posters promising proper reimbursement siding with the sfrathegy of -what you flew yesterday you still can tomorrow- i decided to Not read the other comments.

To ccp:
Ship Balance is something i'm looking forward to See from you. As a Personal request: would you please fix the rokh Balance? it is heavily worse then any other bs of its Tier and atm not worth flying. Second request is the scorpion: please make her a battleship... she is a clay nutshell since the ecm nerf .. no One flies her anymore but everyone likes her look.

I as a proud caldari Pilot have high hopes fo the coming ship balancing.

o7 fly save

Jitoru
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#2049 - 2012-05-15 03:00:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Niko Lorenzio
I can't believe the selfishness of so many people posting here about how "unfair" the coming changes are to them. Just because you trained skills that make no sense to get to a certain ship doesn't mean everyone after you has to suffer the same consequences. Not being able to fly what you could yesterday is understandable, and CCP said 1,000 times already that THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN. But people are now complaining about everything else they had to train. HTFU, we all had to train those same stupid skills to get to a ship we wanted, they finally fixing that for the better and all you can think about is your time lost. You're pathetic.

If you bought a car that was giving 20 m/pg and drove it for 2 years and then the same car company released a new model which gives 40m/pg are you going to go back to the dealership and bang down doors demanding a refund because you spent 2 years driving around and wasting all that gas? HTFU!

Now that I got that rant out of my system, CCP, PLEASE in the future release SEPARATE blogs on such huge issues as these. The important stuff that should be discussed (SHIP REBALANCING) is being drowned out and replaced by a sea of whining from a bunch of panicking lemmings.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!

Kaena Stark
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2050 - 2012-05-16 01:42:19 UTC
Ah the panick before rebalancing ^^
Chasing FOTM will just give you a headache, train what you want to fly here and now, Eve has never been any different.

"I want all 4 races command ships" this is coming from people who didnt even enjoy using BC's enough to train the skill to lvl 5 in the first place... It seems that as soon as free SP is mentioned everyone does a Golum and rushes around panicking about the precious skill points.

Hooray for mass hysteria and the inevitable price hike on command ships! =D
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2051 - 2012-05-17 15:41:26 UTC
Did they say WHEN splitting of Destroyer and Battlecruiser skills is going to take place? I understand it's not going to be May 22nd with the initial Inferno patch. Although I could be mistaken. But if not then, then when? A month from now? Three months? Six?
11eyes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2052 - 2012-05-19 13:44:26 UTC
I believe that BS IV for carriers is a good move on CCPs part it ups the scale on which carriers will be sold thus making miners and productionists happy as well as letting newer players experience a taste of what capital warfare and piloting is like, however i do not believe that BS V should be taken out of supers nor from Titans as these ships are well worth the training time and do the damage to prove it i also believe adding capital ship IV or V to supers would help to offset the 30 - 40 days that are no longer required to fly a carrier as this would keep all those raging "veterans" who also come from elitist nullsec alliances who like to say hey look at our caps because you dont have this many happy that they can still maintain their image of "power".
Orion GUardian
#2053 - 2012-05-20 15:35:58 UTC
Hmm I'd really liek to know what came of these plans. No furtehr information, nothing in Patch notes no news or announcements...
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#2054 - 2012-05-20 15:38:26 UTC
Orion GUardian wrote:
Hmm I'd really liek to know what came of these plans. No furtehr information, nothing in Patch notes no news or announcements...

They changed some frigate stats. I think anything else will have to wait till later.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Phoebe Prime
Perkone
Caldari State
#2055 - 2012-05-21 15:26:37 UTC
Having kept up with this whine-fest thread from the beginning, I immediately trained BCV and DESTV and trained amarr frigate 5 and amarr cruiser 3.

SOOOOOOO... When this whole thing hits like it's been said over 9000 times before, I will probably come out with every racial Destroyers V and every racial battlecruisers V.

Up 4.5m SP + any SP reimbursement for Battlecruisers
Up 1.5m SP + any SP reimbursement for Destroyers

As a bittervet, you have to just take what CCP throws and turn it for the better for you. I wonder how many people actually did this grind in preparation. Roll

Even if it doesn't go as planned, BC 5 and Dest 5 are good skills to have to 5.
Salient Soldier
#2056 - 2012-05-21 20:21:13 UTC
Another good example of CCP fixing something that isnt broken.

Moon goo? no. Remove all t2 bpos? no. Flood the game with more low end specialization and lowbee cap ship isk farmers? YES!

All i have to say, is my character better be provided with SP for all 4 racial BC and DES, or im going to re-re-re rage quit.
Riolenn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2057 - 2012-05-21 22:47:34 UTC
I really hope the person that does the balancing is not the person that did the blog

"This opens up possibilities in terms of new ships. For example, why does the Amarr drone and tracking disruption line ends with the Arbitrator? Or the Gallente drone and dampening abilities stop with the Exequror?"

The Exequror is not the gal dampening ship that's the Celestis, the exequror was balanced last time to be a cargo transport.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#2058 - 2012-05-21 22:52:31 UTC
Fix the Worm frigate.

The Tears Must Flow

Epyx Nykee
Perkone
Caldari State
#2059 - 2012-05-22 05:48:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Epyx Nykee
Ok this is a repeat of questions I had in what was a dead thread. So pasting it here :p Now keep in mind that "NO i have not read the whole flipping thread, i want easy answers and not have to skim through them all. So deal with it."

If nothing below is comprehensible then just ignore this post and troll away (CCP Loves Trolls, hopefully they have one to whip the hamsters tomorrow so the update goes smoothly) Anyways Ya heres my uneducated questions based of like 1 page of ****..

Ok, am i getting this correct.

If say Joe has BC 5 he gets Racial BC 5 across the board, but if you have 4 or less you get that across the board?

Would this not be a big advantage to those who have BC 5 already due to everyone else having to actually take each racial bc to 5 virtually making what took Older players 2 months to do new players would have to spend 8 or so months to get the same racial skillset that older players where just given because they trained BC 5 previously? Or are the racial BC skills going to be reduced in skillpoints and multipliers lowered?

If in fact people with BC 5 currently get a free pass for across the board BC 5 yet that person with BC 4/3/2/1 now has to train 4x the amount of skillpoints to accomplish the same goal is just ridiculous.


Hopefully the above statement is somewhat comprehensible and someone can clarify exactly what is going to be happening.


Also another question is, lets say Joe Shcmoe is currently training BC 5 when the racial class's are implemented, does this person loose out even though he was on the track to BC 5? If so this seems quite unfair also.

If this is the case then Racial BC 5 should not be given to those that already have BC 5. Instead some form of faster multiplier should be given to those that have BC 5 for the other races. Yes this is still unfair but in the end at least those who already have BC 5 will not be given a training advantage (not having to train any Racial BC skillset).

(Below is surely wrong, BC 5 there so. but ya u get the idea)

Someone with BC 5 already = 1,536,000 sp

if all racial bc skills are the same thats 6,144,000 SP to get all racial BC 5. This gives those with BC 5 already literally 4,608,000 free skillpoints.


All in all

WHO THE F--- Cares, we will all get over it, eve will continue, people will rage quit then come slithering back.

****** IF YOUR GOING TO RAGE QUIT FEEL FREE TO CONTRACT ME ALL YOUR ITEMS AND ISK! I'M NOT ABOVE FREE ****!!! ******
Tiger's Spirit
Perkone
Caldari State
#2060 - 2012-05-22 07:48:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
11eyes wrote:
I believe that BS IV for carriers is a good move on CCPs....


I think, that is not good move. The capital ships ruined this game, and now they want to put to game more capitalships.