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Tilting at windmills

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Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#481 - 2012-05-07 14:02:58 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Worth reading.


Nice post.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#482 - 2012-05-07 14:06:12 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Best post

/thread

P.S. - Thanks for saying what I was trying to, much clearer and more explicitly.


Well I don't know. I'm saying it in the context that I don't neccessarily think it's "a bad thing" - I mean, in terms of the rules at least, there's absolutely nothing wrong with what the Goons are doing in EVE. I just wish they would stop pretending that all that's needed to get rid of them is a phantasmal uprising of the hi-sec dwellers which they know for a fact is never going to happen.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#483 - 2012-05-07 14:08:18 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Best post

/thread

P.S. - Thanks for saying what I was trying to, much clearer and more explicitly.


Well I don't know. I'm saying it in the context that I don't neccessarily think it's "a bad thing" - I mean, in terms of the rules at least, there's absolutely nothing wrong with what the Goons are doing in EVE. I just wish they would stop pretending that all that's needed to get rid of them is a phantasmal uprising of the hi-sec dwellers which they know for a fact is never going to happen.

Which is exactly what I was trying to say (and far more succinctly)!

Big smile

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#484 - 2012-05-07 14:10:49 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Which is exactly what I was trying to say (and far more succinctly)!

Big smile


Oh, OK then. Cool.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#485 - 2012-05-07 14:15:24 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

EvE shines for manufacturing, trading, Space Excel, all stuff that can be done without ever undocking from Jita.



That's all fine, but kill me noaw........if the above statement is the End Game.

Unfortunately that *is* where Eve Shines above other games. It has the best market (bar none). Manufacturing/Research/Inventing anyone can get into (most profitably with more skills - but that is the same everywhere).

The Spaceship physics are Wing Commander, the Corp/Alliance interface is Byzantine, PI = Farmville in space, etc., etc., etc., And still, it is still the best (so far) spaceship sim out there...Sad

Cest la vié

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Nikodiemus
Ganja Clade
Shadow Cartel
#486 - 2012-05-07 14:31:06 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:

There are 400,000 paid accounts on TQ.
That is approx 1 million chars.

goons and test, the 2 largest alliances in the game, add up to 14,000 chars.
That is 1.4 percent of the entire game base.
Assume they all have 3 accounts.
That makes it a whopping 4.2%, yet they with their control of the game and the direction of the game is far, far more than the demographics show.


4*3 = 12 ==> 1.2M characters if all are active. You need maths sir.
Also, plenty of those accounts are alts for the null sec players.
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#487 - 2012-05-07 14:34:15 UTC
Nikodiemus wrote:

4*3 = 12 ==> 1.2M characters if all are active. You need maths sir.


Interesting maybe he's not assuming every single person has 3 characters on an account which is why he said approxQuestion
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#488 - 2012-05-07 14:37:17 UTC
What I've always liked about EVE Online is that the market is player-driven. The only other MMO I've ever played where that was really the case was... well, I guess it was Star Wars Galaxies, actually. This indicates a frankly unthinkable amount of trust in the players on the part of CCP. Players mine the resources. Players research the blueprints. Players assemble the merchandise. Players make the sales. Players pay the money. There's no bullshit grinding for legendary purples or any of that nonsense. There's no bind-on-equip (except for rigs, but they're a special case). Anything you find in the world can be sold to another player for cash that that player earned.

That's brilliant. That's what makes EVE appeal to me - not its lacklustre space combat, not its tedious mission grinding, not its asinine nullsec politics. It's the fact that CCP trusts us with the market. With a few exceptions there aren't NPC vendors. There's this nigh unconscious knowledge that everything I buy on the market has been delivered to me through hours, days, weeks, months, years of player work. Whenever I buy a T2 ship, I know this - alliances fought and bled for the territory in which they could find moons to harvest the precious technetium from. Starbase technicians tore their hair out managing the reaction chains. Miners slaved for hours to gather the morphite. Some inventor wrangled his skills and implants just so to get a workable BPC, or else spent billions acquiring a functional BPO. An industrialist spent hours on his spreadsheets to work out optimal production quotas and the right factory to do the assembly at. Some freighter pilot probably spent half the night dragging that ship to the place I bought it. Dozens of man-hours of work went into this single product that I now contemplate in the market window.

I paid 30 million ISK for it and lost it ten minutes later because I forgot to ask for a scout before I jumped into low-sec.

That's goddamn beautiful.

Ask some WoW player where he got his shoulders from and see if he can tell you a story as wonderful as that.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#489 - 2012-05-07 14:49:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Apolyon I wrote:
you definitely playing something else but not EVE, really!!!!!!


Apparently I am not alone:

Andreus Ixiris wrote:
That's brilliant. That's what makes EVE appeal to me - not its lacklustre space combat, not its tedious mission grinding, not its asinine nullsec politics. It's the fact that CCP trusts us with the market.



Apolyon I wrote:

Ask some WoW player where he got his shoulders from and see if he can tell you a story as wonderful as that.


As one of the 2-3 Feral Druids in the whole world who tanked original WoW up to including Naxxramas (before the MMO turned into garbage that is), I have an amazing story behind my shoulders. A story of the 130 people I and the other officers had to coordinate every day for months, when hard core meant having 3 teams of 40 people alternating into raids. A story about the one significant server event that saw thousands and thousands of players cooperating to defeat the ancient evil gods. And I and my guild were there, protagonists.

Sadly that game was canned since the beginning but was canned damn well. Some adventures though, were very epic. Like being able to wield the first legendary sword on the server, competing for the first world kills and much more. Too bad the game became idiotville past the next expansion. Was fun till it lasted.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#490 - 2012-05-07 15:14:37 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

EvE shines for manufacturing, trading, Space Excel, all stuff that can be done without ever undocking from Jita.



That's all fine, but kill me noaw........if the above statement is the End Game.


I don't know who I killed with the last week dump in morphite and other minerals but it has been a fun run. For me.



I know.......but JITA ? That's the issue for me. Smile

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#491 - 2012-05-07 15:25:27 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

EvE shines for manufacturing, trading, Space Excel, all stuff that can be done without ever undocking from Jita.



That's all fine, but kill me noaw........if the above statement is the End Game.


I don't know who I killed with the last week dump in morphite and other minerals but it has been a fun run. For me.



I know.......but JITA ? That's the issue for me. Smile


Well I have an alt in there, I send her 10-30B for each purchase, log in the alt, buy, log off.

Then after 7-30 days I log in the same alt, sell stuff, forward the earnings to me P

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#492 - 2012-05-07 15:33:10 UTC
Highsec is for people who view EVE as just like any other MMO. Grind out ISk for the sole purpose of grinding out isk. Never having an impact on the game, knowing what is actually going on in the game. Or even knowing what EVE is really all about, other than running missions and mining.


Nullsec is for people who play eve the way it was designed to be played. Controlled by the players and not by CCP.



idk why people have to act like highsec guys get stiffed when it comes to mechanics and updates. maybe because highsec guys live in hihsec for the purpose of turning eve into WoW.


from 2007 until this year, I lived in HS so I'm not just talking out of my ass. I'll never live there again.

FC, what do?
RAP ACTION HERO
#493 - 2012-05-07 15:54:36 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

EvE shines for manufacturing, trading, Space Excel, all stuff that can be done without ever undocking from Jita.



That's all fine, but kill me noaw........if the above statement is the End Game.


I don't know who I killed with the last week dump in morphite and other minerals but it has been a fun run. For me.



I know.......but JITA ? That's the issue for me. Smile


Well I have an alt in there, I send her 10-30B for each purchase, log in the alt, buy, log off.

Then after 7-30 days I log in the same alt, sell stuff, forward the earnings to me P


one day, i wanna be able to do that too, endgame yo

vitoc erryday
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#494 - 2012-05-07 15:56:00 UTC
Shian Yang wrote:


Greetings capsuleer,

That is incorrect.

There are currently 70% of all pilots in high security systems. These may be capsuleers watching different market hubs or those flying trade routes to and from the secure to less secure systems or otherwise.

A better metric would be to discover where their handlers reside predominantly, but this information has not been released as of yet.

Regards,

Shian Yang


Greetings back slightly odd person.


Hmm, now that's interesting so of that 70% a large chunk would be low/0.0 pilot alts you suggest?

Low Sec and 0.0 must be terrible if all these people feel the need to be in High Security space.

CCP has had 9 years of attempts to fix low and 0.0 space to make it attractive these obviously disaffected people that feel the need to fill High Security space with alts rather than let go of the security blanket.

Maybe it's time to give up and say it's never going to work Question

I'd propose if these people who cling to their alts are to be believed we should admit failure and give up on the concept of eve being a dangerous and dark place and finally embrace the inner carebear and hug what say you? Ugh
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#495 - 2012-05-07 16:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Degren wrote:
Antibrocial, four in a row? Let the thread die =\


Looks like noone else is... why the hell should I?

Shian Yang wrote:
Greetings capsuleers,

Can someone teach the newbies about multi-quoting or reducing the amount of crud they spawn on the forums, please?

Regards,

Shian Yang


Yes, teach me how to keep putting quotes in a post after it says "there are too many quotes" Id LOVE to know how that works.

Lapine Davion wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
:words:


This guy just made a whole lot of posts in a row to quote my words.

So, because I think it would be cool to see a whole mess of high-sec people come together to try and drive the CFC out of Deklein, it means we must be bored?

This kind of thing would overshadow ANYTHING the CFC has done. IT would generate the kinds of press that CCP drools over. And you could show CCP that you deserve the rewards it gives you. Instead of being petulant little children demanding nerf after nerf against the wolves who feed on you.


Yeah gl with your crusade. The miners will dock up and skill, leave for other games, train mission alts, mission themselves, join you and make you more bored, or go to 0.0. What you will NEVER get is exactly what you want.

Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Goonswarm are very insulated from the consequences of their actions. That isn't to say there's anything fundamentally wrong with what they're doing - well, I think what they're doing is wrong, in that I don't like it, and wouldn't do it myself if I had the power to, but there's nothing they've done (besides what Mittani did at Fanfest) that in any way violates the EULA or any other EVE code of conduct. Everything they've done in-game is perfectly valid.

But Goons have nearly nine thousand members. Yes, I'm fully aware that nowhere near all of those are available or even active at any given time, but they still vastly outnumber the next largest alliance - who are part of the same coalition. All told, CONDI and TEST alone are quite literally just ten heads shy of 16,000 members, and regardless of how many they can leverage at once, together they most certainly comprise the single largest military power bloc in EVE Online. I'm led to believe that isn't even the full extent of the CFC's membership but I don't really keep up on these things as I don't live in nullsec and have no desire to.

Goons can quite easily say things like "well maybe highsec dwellers should just form a big coalition and get rid of us" because they know this isn't going to happen.
In response later:
Well I don't know. I'm saying it in the context that I don't neccessarily think it's "a bad thing" - I mean, in terms of the rules at least, there's absolutely nothing wrong with what the Goons are doing in EVE. I just wish they would stop pretending that all that's needed to get rid of them is a phantasmal uprising of the hi-sec dwellers which they know for a fact is never going to happen.


This guy knows what he's talking about. Plus, we cant care to be bothered. Missioners dont care about ship prices because they dont lose ships. So all they really have to be annoyed about is their T2 ammo and drones is harder to get or more expensive.
Also, 0.0 is finite. through the building of space civilization this is BOUND TO HAPPEN. Look at the way a country forms. Eventually all the little squabbling fighting blocks coalesce into one organization. IMO All of 0.0 becoming one group is inevitable. Itll all coalesce into one group then stabilize.

Vaerah Vahrokha:
There's not a single reason to come (back to) sov 0.0.
Boring like crazy for most of the day to the point you end up missing Jita spammers, just to see something going on.
Chance to join a valid 0.0 corp: 5%. The rest is crud, yet you have to bring your crap over 60 jumps just to find out.
Chance to have to join forced alliance ops: 80% (yes I fart statistics from my ass). It's fun to wake up at 2am to go hit an empty POS or another similarly stupid object.
For what? So that your lord and sire will get 1 more moon to make HIM and his friends rich.
Ability to trade and stuff: possible but stupidly dangerous and the markets suck in there. Have to cyno in everything, endure the bull$hit of having to log a cyno alt at down time or similar.
Mining in 0.0: lol why? Could as well bot red crosses in a supercarrier instead of botting an Hulk.
PvP? Blob fest or sitting at a bubbled gate / station for hours like a moron.
Small roams? They happen in less blobby corps, but have to find one of those. Not going to happen in sov 0.0, NPC 0.0 would be the place to be.
Renter corp? Why. Can bot in hi sec for free and without being looked from the top to bottom by the landlords and being asked to join some ******** landlord alliance op.
Low sec and maybe WH and possibly NPC 0.0 could be places to live.
For PvP? GW2 >>>>>>>>>>>>> EvE, it can't even be compared. Lol mouse clickers pretending they are skilled, in a game with 1990 collision spheres, no line of sight or landscape tactics.
Hell, even stupidly ret4rded Warhammer Online PvP > EvE.
EvE shines for manufacturing, trading, Space Excel, all stuff that can be done without ever undocking from Jita.


Antosocial Malkavian:
Why do you think theyre in high sec ganking us? THEYRE BORED. If they truly wanted a gudfight theyd take it to lowsec. But no theyd rather carebear it up in a place where ppl wont care enough about them to fight back.

Also for all my :words: earlier, I see a lotta ppl attacking that I posted 4 in a row and not disputing what those words SAY

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#496 - 2012-05-07 16:43:01 UTC
highonpop wrote:
Highsec is for people who view EVE as just like any other MMO. Grind out ISk for the sole purpose of grinding out isk. Never having an impact on the game, knowing what is actually going on in the game. Or even knowing what EVE is really all about, other than running missions and mining.


Nullsec is for people who play eve the way it was designed to be played. Controlled by the players and not by CCP.



idk why people have to act like highsec guys get stiffed when it comes to mechanics and updates. maybe because highsec guys live in hihsec for the purpose of turning eve into WoW.


from 2007 until this year, I lived in HS so I'm not just talking out of my ass. I'll never live there again.


so...................... why do they care so much about US id null is so amazing?

ah yes cause its not and your post is ****.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#497 - 2012-05-07 16:44:34 UTC
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Shian Yang wrote:


Greetings capsuleer,

That is incorrect.

There are currently 70% of all pilots in high security systems. These may be capsuleers watching different market hubs or those flying trade routes to and from the secure to less secure systems or otherwise.

A better metric would be to discover where their handlers reside predominantly, but this information has not been released as of yet.

Regards,

Shian Yang


Greetings back slightly odd person.


Hmm, now that's interesting so of that 70% a large chunk would be low/0.0 pilot alts you suggest?

Low Sec and 0.0 must be terrible if all these people feel the need to be in High Security space.

CCP has had 9 years of attempts to fix low and 0.0 space to make it attractive these obviously disaffected people that feel the need to fill High Security space with alts rather than let go of the security blanket.

Maybe it's time to give up and say it's never going to work Question

I'd propose if these people who cling to their alts are to be believed we should admit failure and give up on the concept of eve being a dangerous and dark place and finally embrace the inner carebear and hug what say you? Ugh





Sounds good.

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
RAP ACTION HERO
#498 - 2012-05-07 16:47:52 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Shian Yang wrote:


Greetings capsuleer,

That is incorrect.

There are currently 70% of all pilots in high security systems. These may be capsuleers watching different market hubs or those flying trade routes to and from the secure to less secure systems or otherwise.

A better metric would be to discover where their handlers reside predominantly, but this information has not been released as of yet.

Regards,

Shian Yang


Greetings back slightly odd person.


Hmm, now that's interesting so of that 70% a large chunk would be low/0.0 pilot alts you suggest?

Low Sec and 0.0 must be terrible if all these people feel the need to be in High Security space.

CCP has had 9 years of attempts to fix low and 0.0 space to make it attractive these obviously disaffected people that feel the need to fill High Security space with alts rather than let go of the security blanket.

Maybe it's time to give up and say it's never going to work Question

I'd propose if these people who cling to their alts are to be believed we should admit failure and give up on the concept of eve being a dangerous and dark place and finally embrace the inner carebear and hug what say you? Ugh





Sounds good.

jesus christ and you wonder why gankers gank you

vitoc erryday
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#499 - 2012-05-07 16:51:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Kreshant
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:

jesus christ and you wonder why gankers gank you


Big smile
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#500 - 2012-05-07 17:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
highonpop wrote:
Highsec is for people who view EVE as just like any other MMO. Grind out ISk for the sole purpose of grinding out isk. Never having an impact on the game, knowing what is actually going on in the game. Or even knowing what EVE is really all about, other than running missions and mining.



Ironically, I both agree with your post in total, but I really hate the unbelievable ill-informed nature of the above quotage.

When was the last time a peon in a Goon Fleet actually built a Crane from pieces ? Ships impact the game in a HUGE way I believe. In fact it is now CCP's focus.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882