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Active Skill Training - Would it be Possible?

First post
Author
Lin Gerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-05-06 22:32:59 UTC
Thomas Gallant wrote:
What about a skill "booster" effect? that way people could translate money into a slight temperary improvement in skill gain, say a +1 willpower or whatever skill booster? That would let people who want to invest extra money in skilling be able to do it beyond just the +5 implants.



I was contemplating this when I wrote my post. But how would they be regulated? Clearly putting them in nulsec would be a good move as most people in null are afraid of getting pew pewed with expensive implants so they avoid using them for the most part. But if we tried to apply it actively to skills would they be a dropped item? Or would you get it for simply attempting or using things related to that skill? Like a bonus you receive if you do said activity so many times. But then what dictates the time the bonus is applied?
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#22 - 2012-05-06 23:46:21 UTC
CCP Hilmar just rang to let me know he is going to remotely biomass the next person to post one of these proposals.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-05-07 00:19:36 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:

Why? There are a few reasons

  1. To prevent the atrocity that is apathetic training of skills.
  2. It makes sense. Sure, neural uplinks do most of the work, but actively engaging in said activity should be beneficial.
  3. It would help noob players make sense of the world and actively engage in it, because an apathetic noob is the worst.



Your reasons as to why your proposals should be implemented are flawed and were deconstructed by arguments in this thread already, but here goes:

1) There is nothing wrong with the current skill-training system which takes the game away from 'grinding for SP' model that forces people to play the game (also a cause of internet gaming addiction). Now you mentioned that your booster would reward players "FOR" doing things but you also noted the benefit of doing these things will wear down over time... forcing the rest of the players to do those things again and again to get the said benefit. Therefore, you have again suggested a grind-based skill system, albeit less intense than the standard models, which is a terrible proposal for EVE.

2) It may make sense for skills to be acquired through practice but your proposal doesn't quite suggest that. If this was to make complete sense, then the more time I spend shooting at a stationary target (practice), the better I would get at the relevant skills. There are two ways to implement this - 1) Sit in front of my computer and play (time/practice) constantly shooting at stuff to get skills; or 2) Have a skillbook that my character spends real-time learning/practicing while I have the liberty of doing anything else really; now I know what you are thinking: "Have 2) but with 1) giving you some benefits as well?" - in that case see Point 1) above and also consider the below point:

3) The overall proposal does not benefit any one group over the other in any way, as your proposed system would be applicable to a 100M SP character as it would be to a noob. It does not help noobs any more than a more detailed tutorial would in teaching them aspects of the game.

So, the bottom line? What does your proposal achieve?
- Grinding for SP benefit.
- Opens a clear area of exploitation especially by more veteran players.

I hope that my argument was constructive and made sense - I look forward to a reply.

Im Super Gay
Investtan Inc.
The Republic.
#24 - 2012-05-07 00:41:36 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Thomas Gallant wrote:
What about a skill "booster" effect? that way people could translate money into a slight temperary improvement in skill gain, say a +1 willpower or whatever skill booster? That would let people who want to invest extra money in skilling be able to do it beyond just the +5 implants.

That kind of defeats the original purpose of the idea. To help noobs make sense of EVE. But that idea sounds... interesting. I'm sure it's already been suggested before, though.

$ > PLEX > ISK > SP. Take your pay to win and shove it. Eve is about everyone being on the same level sp training wise regardless of how active you are. This idea will never be implemented because it goes against Eve's core phlosiphy.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-05-07 01:15:57 UTC
Im Super Gay wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Thomas Gallant wrote:
What about a skill "booster" effect? that way people could translate money into a slight temperary improvement in skill gain, say a +1 willpower or whatever skill booster? That would let people who want to invest extra money in skilling be able to do it beyond just the +5 implants.

That kind of defeats the original purpose of the idea. To help noobs make sense of EVE. But that idea sounds... interesting. I'm sure it's already been suggested before, though.

$ > PLEX > ISK > SP. Take your pay to win and shove it. Eve is about everyone being on the same level sp training wise regardless of how active you are. This idea will never be implemented because it goes against Eve's core phlosiphy.


While I agree with not buffing player training in low/null/wh space, you're a bit incorrect about players having the same training.

Players who are wealthy in real life have an advantage because they can go pvp, lose their implants, then simply buy a plex for new ones. Basically, this gives wealthy players an unfair advantage.

Though I agree this is a bad idea.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#26 - 2012-05-07 01:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
Im Super Gay wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Thomas Gallant wrote:
What about a skill "booster" effect? that way people could translate money into a slight temperary improvement in skill gain, say a +1 willpower or whatever skill booster? That would let people who want to invest extra money in skilling be able to do it beyond just the +5 implants.

That kind of defeats the original purpose of the idea. To help noobs make sense of EVE. But that idea sounds... interesting. I'm sure it's already been suggested before, though.

$ > PLEX > ISK > SP. Take your pay to win and shove it. Eve is about everyone being on the same level sp training wise regardless of how active you are. This idea will never be implemented because it goes against Eve's core phlosiphy.

Oh really? What is EVE's core philosophy, by chance? Oh wait, I know.

Sandbox.

I don't see how such a thing would violate the sandbox.
Oh, and you are also right about it not having to do anything with your activity. It has to do with either being active once or buying PLEX so that you can get fancy implants. Then, any activity would be considered bad because you risk losing said implants.

Case in point: Activity is bad, let's stop playing EVE and just pay for it monthly to get our skills up. Right?


Katie Frost wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:

Why? There are a few reasons

  1. To prevent the atrocity that is apathetic training of skills.
  2. It makes sense. Sure, neural uplinks do most of the work, but actively engaging in said activity should be beneficial.
  3. It would help noob players make sense of the world and actively engage in it, because an apathetic noob is the worst.



Your reasons as to why your proposals should be implemented are flawed and were deconstructed by arguments in this thread already, but here goes:

1) There is nothing wrong with the current skill-training system which takes the game away from 'grinding for SP' model that forces people to play the game (also a cause of internet gaming addiction). Now you mentioned that your booster would reward players "FOR" doing things but you also noted the benefit of doing these things will wear down over time... forcing the rest of the players to do those things again and again to get the said benefit. Therefore, you have again suggested a grind-based skill system, albeit less intense than the standard models, which is a terrible proposal for EVE.

2) It may make sense for skills to be acquired through practice but your proposal doesn't quite suggest that. If this was to make complete sense, then the more time I spend shooting at a stationary target (practice), the better I would get at the relevant skills. There are two ways to implement this - 1) Sit in front of my computer and play (time/practice) constantly shooting at stuff to get skills; or 2) Have a skillbook that my character spends real-time learning/practicing while I have the liberty of doing anything else really; now I know what you are thinking: "Have 2) but with 1) giving you some benefits as well?" - in that case see Point 1) above and also consider the below point:

3) The overall proposal does not benefit any one group over the other in any way, as your proposed system would be applicable to a 100M SP character as it would be to a noob. It does not help noobs any more than a more detailed tutorial would in teaching them aspects of the game.

So, the bottom line? What does your proposal achieve?
- Grinding for SP benefit.
- Opens a clear area of exploitation especially by more veteran players.

I hope that my argument was constructive and made sense - I look forward to a reply.


Well, like I said earlier, systems could be put in place to reduce or remove grinding and exploitation. Things like diminishing returns and the like.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.

Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#27 - 2012-05-07 01:23:08 UTC
Ah, hell. It was a good idea in theory.
Then again everything is, right?

Requesting a lock.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.

Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-05-07 01:40:04 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Ah, hell. It was a good idea in theory.
Then again everything is, right?

Requesting a lock.


It was an admirable attempt to suggest ways to promote character activity and adjust the skill training system, so don't feel bad about the proposal. However, ISK/Grind reward topics generally do get shot down very quickly in whatever form on these forums as they simply contradict the very core of EVE philosophy and why most of the EVE players chose to play it over games that do offer ISK/Grind rewards.
ISD LoneLynx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-05-07 07:54:56 UTC
Locked as per the author's decision

ISD LoneLynx Lieutenant Support Team and Resources [STAR] Interstellar Services Department

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