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Change to cloaking module
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Kealin
E.C.H.O.
#1 - 2012-05-05 20:05:45 UTC
It has long been a problem in 0.0 where you will have a griefer come in and sit, cloaked, all day. These people are only here to prevent miners and ratters from doing just that. I propose the following changes to all cloaking devices

1) Have a maximum cycle time of 60 minutes with no option of auto repeat
2) Have a 60 Second cool down timer before the module can be reactivated if ran for over 10 minutes continuously.

If these seem unreasonable, then as an Ihub upgrade either have a "Cloaking Nullifier" that disallows the use of a cloak in system, or a POS module that allows for the disruption of cloaking systems for 60 seconds once activated and cannot be repeated for 1 hour
XEROX LAB
The Hunt Industry
#2 - 2012-05-05 20:08:58 UTC
Cloak nullifier in the i-hub sounds AWESOME!!! :D
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-05-05 21:15:13 UTC
Oh, hey, look! it's THIS idea again!

Seriously, learn to search, This exact idea has been suggested a dozen times, in amongst the other fifty 'CCP I am terrified of someone who is AFK please hold my hand' threads in this very forum.

1) Explain how someone who is AFK can hurt you in any way, shape or form

2) Explain why you want recons, bombers and other cloaky ships to be borderline useless in most systems, and outright worthless in ones with this ihub thing.

3) Get Out.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#4 - 2012-05-05 21:54:25 UTC
No. Yet again someone with an idea regarding AFKing, but without any understanding of game mechanics.

This is only a problem for a select few, which seem to be either renters or pets.
Get an idea of what mechanic is being used, then come back and make a suggestion. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Aleksander Erkkinen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-05-06 00:38:57 UTC
Terribad OP. AFK cloak being dangerous is a joke.

Why are you in 0.0 if you are afraid of hostiles? Go back to empire, carebear.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-05-06 00:52:26 UTC
Kealin wrote:
It has long been a problem in 0.0 where you will have a griefer come in and sit, cloaked, all day. These people are only here to prevent miners and ratters from doing just that. I propose the following changes to all cloaking devices

1) Have a maximum cycle time of 60 minutes with no option of auto repeat
2) Have a 60 Second cool down timer before the module can be reactivated if ran for over 10 minutes continuously.

If these seem unreasonable, then as an Ihub upgrade either have a "Cloaking Nullifier" that disallows the use of a cloak in system, or a POS module that allows for the disruption of cloaking systems for 60 seconds once activated and cannot be repeated for 1 hour



This is not a problem .. but you are a troll.
Remove cloakers from local "problem" solved

You are deliberately bombarding this forum with cloaking crap.
You know darn well these dumb ideas to nerf cloaking get posted over and over .. and I think all by the same people with different alts. You didn't bother to look and see that there are already at least three other posts floating up and down this forum?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Jackal Datapaw
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-05-06 02:05:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jackal Datapaw
Check here. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=102852 =D

This is a number of suggestions without 'nerfing' cloak, it also includes the changing of local idea.

commonly suggest cloaking and local ideas

Dybbuch
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2012-05-06 17:05:02 UTC
WTF ... Good suggestion .. with a torrent of Puerile bile that greets it ..

this isn't a 'nerf the cloak' post .. this is a serious suggestion that makes the game mechanic a little less in favour of the 'log on .. cloak .. hang around pissing people off because I can and I have no imagination to actually try real PVP'

Agony is Recruiting

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-05-06 17:38:14 UTC
Dybbuch wrote:
WTF ... Good suggestion .. with a torrent of Puerile bile that greets it ..

this isn't a 'nerf the cloak' post .. this is a serious suggestion that makes the game mechanic a little more in favour of the 'log on, set the bot to ctrl+q if there's a hostile anywhere in five systems' crowd




Roll
Aleksander Erkkinen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-05-06 18:40:11 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Dybbuch wrote:
WTF ... Good suggestion .. with a torrent of Puerile bile that greets it ..

this isn't a 'nerf the cloak' post .. this is a serious suggestion that makes the game mechanic a little more in favour of the 'log on, set the bot to ctrl+q if there's a hostile anywhere in five systems' crowd




Roll

You clearly never spend time in WHS. It takes time to stalk a target corp. Why should WHS get whacked like this because someone is terrified that in a region that is supposed to be lawless, they might actually run into an outlaw? Why are you obsessed about cloaks in general? The ships that can fit them to any serious effect are not ubber 1337 powerhouses, and the regions you mean to effect (0.0) are not meant to be secure. This is a 'nerf the cloak' post in exactly the same manner as all the others. It deserves puerile responses to discourage more nonsense from people who make suggestions without considering the consequences. Serious though the OP's butthurt may be, that doesn't make his suggestion legitimate.

P.S. Someone who doesn't like competition is not a griefer. Disrupting an opposing corp/alliance's mining operations is not griefing. Being in a system does not make you a griefer. Seriously! The hell!
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2012-05-06 19:48:46 UTC
Aleksander Erkkinen wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Dybbuch wrote:
WTF ... Good suggestion .. with a torrent of Puerile bile that greets it ..

this isn't a 'nerf the cloak' post .. this is a serious suggestion that makes the game mechanic a little more in favour of the 'log on, set the bot to ctrl+q if there's a hostile anywhere in five systems' crowd




Roll

You clearly never spend time in WHS. It takes time to stalk a target corp. Why should WHS get whacked like this because someone is terrified that in a region that is supposed to be lawless, they might actually run into an outlaw? Why are you obsessed about cloaks in general? The ships that can fit them to any serious effect are not ubber 1337 powerhouses, and the regions you mean to effect (0.0) are not meant to be secure. This is a 'nerf the cloak' post in exactly the same manner as all the others. It deserves puerile responses to discourage more nonsense from people who make suggestions without considering the consequences. Serious though the OP's butthurt may be, that doesn't make his suggestion legitimate.

P.S. Someone who doesn't like competition is not a griefer. Disrupting an opposing corp/alliance's mining operations is not griefing. Being in a system does not make you a griefer. Seriously! The hell!


I think you missed the part where I was trolling the 'nerf cloaks' idiots again.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#12 - 2012-05-06 20:00:59 UTC
Dybbuch wrote:
WTF ... Good suggestion .. with a torrent of Puerile bile that greets it ..

this isn't a 'nerf the cloak' post .. this is a serious suggestion that makes the game mechanic a little less in favour of the 'log on .. cloak .. hang around pissing people off because I can and I have no imagination to actually try real PVP'

Please give us all your, obviously vast, amount of knowledge regarding AFKing then. I'm sure we'd be more happy to listen.

Let me give you a starting block of questions, you can help us all with.

  1. Please tell us what you think the problem is.
  2. Tell us why it's a problem.
  3. What mechanic is being used to cause your problem.
  4. How this mechanic should or could be changed.

We eagerly await your post. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Aleksander Erkkinen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-05-06 20:09:49 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:

I think you missed the part where I was trolling the 'nerf cloaks' idiots again.

Actually I quoted the wrong post. My response was to Dybb, the man so brave he's afraid of someone who's afk.
Tidurious
Blatant Alt Corp
#14 - 2012-05-06 20:31:09 UTC
OP is an idiot.

Go biomass yourself immediately.
Kealin
E.C.H.O.
#15 - 2012-05-06 20:47:52 UTC
ok, since everyone see's this a "nerf cloak, afraid of afk'er" post, let me offer this:

1) I never said an AFK person cloaked was a danger, just that they are griefing the people mining, ratting, etc. by sitting in system all day long and actually not being at the computer.

2) I never said "Cov Ops", I just said a person cloaked. I know that a buzzard is no real big threat, unless they have a cyno attached which is more than likely anyways.

3) I never said I was "afraid" to go out with these people in system, I do it all the time and if I get ganked, I get ganked. That's the game

4) I just love the "remove cloakers from local" comment. This doesn't solve the issue I am mentioning, this just adds another mechanic to the game for people to exploit.

The suggestions I have made in the OP are not a nerf cloak idea. Why would you even NEED to stay cloaked in space 23/7? Easy answer, You Don't! if you think that adding a max time of 60 minutes with a 60 second cool down is a nerf, then you are a noob and need to go back and look at all the real nerfs CCP has done in this game since atleast 2006 when I started playing. And if you think the alternatives I presented are nerfs, you need to learn what the definition of a nerf is. The other suggestions are new mechanics I'm proposing to the game to help combat a severely lopsided strategy. Every other strategy has a way to over-come it, except this one, and I am suggestion a way to bring balance to these tactics.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2012-05-06 21:22:11 UTC
Aleksander Erkkinen wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

I think you missed the part where I was trolling the 'nerf cloaks' idiots again.

Actually I quoted the wrong post. My response was to Dybb, the man so brave he's afraid of someone who's afk.



Oh, okay, my apologies.

@Kealin, how is going AFK griefing in any way, shape or form?

And how, exactly, do you propose people gather intel if they can't cloak? In wormholes or in deep null, long term cloaking is always going to happen.

A 60 minute timer with a 60 second cooldown IS a nerf. It reduces the utility of cloaks. What is a reduction of utility if it is not a nerf?

Explain to me how docking up when there's a single red five systems away can be countered? Or hiding in a pos? Or logging out? (Or having your bot set to do any of those?)

As an aside, do you really think people couldn't just macro a cloak reactivation every 62 minutes?
Kealin
E.C.H.O.
#17 - 2012-05-06 21:34:24 UTC
What is a griefer? Someone who does something to hinder your or your corporation activities for a prolonged period of time. Sitting Cloaked in a system, AFK or not, for hours on end in a system that is utilized for miners and ratters is griefing.

People can still gather intel with cloaks. The 60 minute max timer with 60 second cool down is for a continuous use. If you are jumping gates, then you are not continuously using the cloak, so you dont have to worry about a cool down timer. If they institute an IHub upgrade that prevents it, it would be a strategic lvl 5 upgrade, so you will have to have that, as well as the added cost for the upgrade. If they institute a POS module, I'm not saying it prevents the cloaking ability, just deactivates it and makes it unusable for 60 seconds or so when activated, so the ship can be scanned down and destroyed. And after its been activated, then you can't use it again for XXX amount of time ( I said 60 minutes but don't care for the actual time, it could be 24 hours for all I care).

I'm not saying when someone is five jumps away and doing this. I'm speaking for the system specific griefer who will stay in a SS cloaked 23/7. Hiding in a POS or Station, atleast we know where they are and can SEE their ship and track their movements in the system. Logging out, they're not getting intel if they're logged out, are they?

People setting Macro's to reactivate cloak every 62 minutes? That's fine, you still have 60 seconds to probe them out and destroy their ship before it reactivates the cloak when it runs out.
Aleksander Erkkinen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-05-06 21:57:20 UTC
Kealin wrote:
What is a griefer? Someone who does something to hinder your or your corporation activities for a prolonged period of time.
Well, that's a **** poor definition of griefer. So let me get this straight. You're in an industrial corp, and you want a stranglehold on iunno lets say T2 cloaks for the hell of it. According to you, you're perfectly fine in strangling the market for T2 cloaks by jacking up local prices, but a man who sees this and buys in Jita to sell in "your" region thereby undercutting you is suddenly a griefer? He's doing "something to hinder your [sic] or your corporation [sic] activities for a prolonged period of time"

So apparently any time someone does something for this arbitrarily defined "prolonged period of time" is a griefer? **** poor definition.

Quote:
Sitting Cloaked in a system, AFK or not, for hours on end in a system that is utilized for miners and ratters is griefing.
Only according to your **** poor definition. In reality, he's probably a lone hunter/pirate who just wants to opportunity to gank. Because of your telepathic ability to instantaneously know when he is in system, he has devised a time consuming strategy that overcomes this obscene knowledge. If he is trying to just disrupt your corporation, it's probably because he is a competitor or is being paid to by a competitor. Did you even think about his motives before labeling him a griefer and dismissing them as such?

Quote:
People can still gather intel with cloaks. The 60 minute max timer with 60 second cool down is for a continuous use.
So wrong. Before you roll into a WH op, you need to know the makeup of their corp. Not everyone in a corp is going to go on every op, so sometimes you must hide in their home system for quite some time to get a good picture of how they operate, when they're active, what they use, what their exploitable habits are. This information doesn't magic itself into the stalker's brain like local does - it takes time to observe. 60 minutes might not even cover a single OP if they're particularly slow.

Your idea is bad. It's poorly concieved, has sweeping consequences in realms you apparently have no clue exist, is symptomatic of some serious butthurt over being afraid of that nasty little neutral in local (while in the one region of space that's supposed to present constant unending danger, no less) that might come back to his computer sometime. Let it go.
Kealin
E.C.H.O.
#19 - 2012-05-06 22:27:11 UTC
Aleksander Erkkinen wrote:
Kealin wrote:
What is a griefer? Someone who does something to hinder your or your corporation activities for a prolonged period of time.
Well, that's a **** poor definition of griefer. So let me get this straight. You're in an industrial corp, and you want a stranglehold on iunno lets say T2 cloaks for the hell of it. According to you, you're perfectly fine in strangling the market for T2 cloaks by jacking up local prices, but a man who sees this and buys in Jita to sell in "your" region thereby undercutting you is suddenly a griefer? He's doing "something to hinder your [sic] or your corporation [sic] activities for a prolonged period of time"

So apparently any time someone does something for this arbitrarily defined "prolonged period of time" is a griefer? **** poor definition.


you apparently need a class in understanding literature. Since you can't seem to understand what I'm saying beyond a first grade level, let me break this down to your level of understanding:

"If someone comes in and is a meany head, that makes it so you and your friends can't play in the sand box all day, he's a griefer. If someone is a meany head and sells his lemonade for less money than you, that is business"

Aleksander Erkkinen wrote:
Kealin wrote:
Sitting Cloaked in a system, AFK or not, for hours on end in a system that is utilized for miners and ratters is griefing.
Only according to your **** poor definition. In reality, he's probably a lone hunter/pirate who just wants to opportunity to gank. Because of your telepathic ability to instantaneously know when he is in system, he has devised a time consuming strategy that overcomes this obscene knowledge. If he is trying to just disrupt your corporation, it's probably because he is a competitor or is being paid to by a competitor. Did you even think about his motives before labeling him a griefer and dismissing them as such?


OK, he's a lone hunter, go hunt. He's a lone pirate, go camp a gate. Sitting in system for 23 hours isn't someone trying to get a gank. Even if he is being paid by someone else, he is still using griefing tactics, therefore he is a griefer.
Kealin
E.C.H.O.
#20 - 2012-05-06 22:27:25 UTC
Aleksander Erkkinen wrote:
Kealin wrote:
People can still gather intel with cloaks. The 60 minute max timer with 60 second cool down is for a continuous use.
So wrong. Before you roll into a WH op, you need to know the makeup of their corp. Not everyone in a corp is going to go on every op, so sometimes you must hide in their home system for quite some time to get a good picture of how they operate, when they're active, what they use, what their exploitable habits are. This information doesn't magic itself into the stalker's brain like local does - it takes time to observe. 60 minutes might not even cover a single OP if they're particularly slow.


If they are truely gathering intel, they won't be sitting there for 23 hours in a SS, they will be getting eyes on the people. And if they go with the IHub idea, then you won't have to worry about WHS. You don't have sov there, so you won't have a POS module or Strategic upgrade to allow these mechanics to be implemented.[/quote]

Aleksander Erkkinen wrote:
Your idea is bad. It's poorly concieved, has sweeping consequences in realms you apparently have no clue exist, is symptomatic of some serious butthurt over being afraid of that nasty little neutral in local (while in the one region of space that's supposed to present constant unending danger, no less) that might come back to his computer sometime. Let it go.


You're rebuttal is poorly conceived with narrow-mindedness and is clouded with the delusion that it will effect WHS as well as 0.0. You are also still, for some reason, thinking that this post is out of fear or being "butt hurt". Look at my losses, I haven't been killed by one of these and I have already stated, I still do what I want even with them in system.

This posy is presenting a new mechanic to the game that will allow for people to track down someone who is sitting in a system, cloaked, for a prolonged period of time in a system that has Sovereignty. Thereby allowing them to ensure the security of their space in an otherwise unsecure environment.

And btw, for the rebuttal of "it's unfair", look at the Cynosaural Suppression upgrade. It prevents someone from lighting a cyno in the system (except Black Ops) and prevents capital ships from being deployed in combat until it is disabled. So is this an unfair module that should be removed?
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