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Inferno Features on Singularity

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Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#541 - 2012-05-04 13:04:25 UTC
PC5 wrote:
Hans if you want feedback about FW ill give you one. Sorry for my english.

1. Station lockdown
Why ppl are so woried about it? Its so easy to avoid that 'consequence'.
I like this as 'consequence' but its no big problem for our small group of 20 pilots becasue :
a) well quit FW for a while and still be shooting minmatar militia - naped with other Amarr FW corps/alliances - then we can dock and do whatever we like and laugh at all this mechanic. With alts in militia i can work on gething system back. In this scenario we get plenty of fights but no LPs for our mains. Our SS dosent matter, were < -5 after all.

Conclusion :
- lossing few LPs, still can dock and do whatever we want on alts in militia
- this whole mechanic affects only ppl who need to be in militia for
a) nice small/med fights
b) get easy LPs

2. We dont have to be in militia to fight for complexes and teake systems.
Example : 10 non FW pilots in plex + 1 FW alt which is teaking plex.
What would hurt us? If neutrals wont be allowed to enter plexes - only FW pilots. That what i call consequence. You want to fight for that system - you have to be in FW. Even then we can just camp entrance to plex...

3. Capturing plexes and rewards
Nice feature but why ONLY ONE pilots get the reward for capturing?
Example : Major Stronghold - it gives 30k LP - teakes 20m to capture, but on SISI only first pilot who started countdown trigger gets LPs - rest gets 0 (zero, null, nada).

4. Rewards for uprgading system are bad joke
Who needs more production slots in lovsec when there are thousands free in lov and hisec?
Clone discounts? In 7 years ive updated clone max 10 times - no value to me at all.
Brokers fee discount..... no use or so little its not intresting at all.

Only thing thats worth uprgading is possibility to use cynojamer. Rest is crap crap.... mega crap.

What would be nice? Few exapmles things WORTH fighting for:
* At some uprgade level sentries will attack oposite fraction - same way as ppl with GCC
* 90% reduction costs for repairs
* +10% shield/armor/speed of controling militia ships in this system
* better PI on planets in that system (more resources or other benefits, another reason to fight for customs and give many good fights)


5. LP store prices
Please fix tag demands for items. Some items now cost over 1b... thats crazy and it cryies for dev intervention for years.
1m LP for navy apoc.... prices are crazy.

ATM (after price rised from 1000 LP/isk) we have around 1400 LP / isk from ships like Armag Navy, Apoc Navy, Omen Navy etc.
Apoc before inferno - sells for 450m costs 250k LP + Hull = 1400 isk / LP
Apoc after inferno - sells for 500m costs 500k LP + Hull = 809 isk / LP
Apoc after inferno - sells for 500m costs 1000k LP + Hull = 406 isk / LP

Prices of BSes will rise over 500m of Navy ships. Prices ballancing in LP store is the key here - waiting for dev blog.
Please remember - navy ships are our 'perls' in FW - if you broke mechanism which allows ppl to get/use them - were screwed. CCP has to be very carefull here.

6. Datacores
Current price of datacores on sisi is probably broken same as other ships.
1000LP + 1M for 5 datacores.

Lets look at numbers - for example Datacore - Amarr Starship Enginering, lets say they sell for 300k each
1000 LP + 1m = 5 datacores = 500isk / LP
500 LP + 1m = 5 datacores = 2000isk / LP

I think price here is not bad.

7. LP for kills
4k lp for ishtar kill? Person who gots final blow gets LPs? If thats true - dosent sound good. Need more info here.
Overall this system looks like not finished on sisi. Not calculating ship real value?


Overall - more fights - big LPs nerf - could be 'good' or big disaster for many FW ppl.


the alt thing is exactly what i posted previously .... but it is bad joke, that broken mechanics will force us to seek workarounds like this.

Ad lp costs ... I think I can make little fortune grinding lps now and store navy vessels for future market speculations .... can u imagine prices of hookbils after this bad joke change? I can and I am happy. Shocked
Laerise
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#542 - 2012-05-04 16:25:28 UTC
I really like the new adaptive armor hardener. It gives armor a unique feature and makes up for passive shield regen in longer fights.

The only gripe I have with the new hardener is the high cap use per second. For the t1 adaptive hardener we're looking at 4 cap/sec which is more than even a t2 invuln uses Straight
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#543 - 2012-05-04 16:59:46 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
I think the only major things that really need to be discussed involve the tanking mods.
The drone mod simply needs to be better (less fitting, more bonus), and the CPU rig needs to be balanced so we don't have people getting fits that shouldn't be possible (ie: cov-ops titans).

ARMOR ADAPTIVE HARDENER
Simply put, it needs to be better. For starters, this module is only effective in small fights where the damage types are more concentrated as opposed to fleet fights. For this reason, these are never going to go on Capitals over a nice EANM.

With that said, the module needs to be more effective. The reason being is that this is a module that would act as your tertiary tank mod, for ships that would normally be plugging a small hole (ie: EM on T2 Gallente). It needs to be better because right now it's better to take your chances with a stacked EANM. The problem is that the adaptive module takes too long to react.

It has a 10 second cycle time and adjusts 1% into the respective spots per cycle.
It takes far too much time it takes to adjust to a level that would exceed that of a stacked EANM or simply another active specific hardener.

For starters, I would give the module significantly more HP for overloading. It overheats WAY too fast, and right now it's so weak that it NEEDS to be overloaded. Next, I would say at least double the rate it adapts. Either by percentage OR by reducing the cycle time. The mod is simply too weak at the moment to be taken seriously, as it's pretty much useless on T1 ships.
.


Personally I think I currently get a small advantage from carefully considering what types of hardeners/resists I put on my pvp ships. Accordinlgly I am glad these one size fits all mods are not really that great.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Jiji Hamin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#544 - 2012-05-04 18:46:27 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
I think the only major things that really need to be discussed involve the tanking mods.
The drone mod simply needs to be better (less fitting, more bonus), and the CPU rig needs to be balanced so we don't have people getting fits that shouldn't be possible (ie: cov-ops titans).

ARMOR ADAPTIVE HARDENER
Simply put, it needs to be better. For starters, this module is only effective in small fights where the damage types are more concentrated as opposed to fleet fights. For this reason, these are never going to go on Capitals over a nice EANM.

With that said, the module needs to be more effective. The reason being is that this is a module that would act as your tertiary tank mod, for ships that would normally be plugging a small hole (ie: EM on T2 Gallente). It needs to be better because right now it's better to take your chances with a stacked EANM. The problem is that the adaptive module takes too long to react.

It has a 10 second cycle time and adjusts 1% into the respective spots per cycle.
It takes far too much time it takes to adjust to a level that would exceed that of a stacked EANM or simply another active specific hardener.

For starters, I would give the module significantly more HP for overloading. It overheats WAY too fast, and right now it's so weak that it NEEDS to be overloaded. Next, I would say at least double the rate it adapts. Either by percentage OR by reducing the cycle time. The mod is simply too weak at the moment to be taken seriously, as it's pretty much useless on T1 ships.
.


Personally I think I currently get a small advantage from carefully considering what types of hardeners/resists I put on my pvp ships. Accordinlgly I am glad these one size fits all mods are not really that great.


apadtive hardeners are exactly where they need to be. They make it so armor PVErs don't have to constantly refit, while PvP balance is not upended. do not change.
XOr Brasil
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#545 - 2012-05-04 19:07:00 UTC
I'm not a fan of the total station lockdown, but I guess I can live with it if the time to flip a system is more than today's TQ (I haven't logged in SiSi yet), but I see one major concern with this system on the Inferno go-live (release day): I can predict major blobs on the previous day, massive flipping enemy base systems (thus using current time-to-flip) and automatically making their occupants unable to dock on the next day.

If you're really going live with the lockdown CCP, please consider implementing the new system using partial releases: first the new system-flipping times, and later (1 week?) the lockdown.
Galandriel
Vae-Victus
#546 - 2012-05-04 20:15:28 UTC
Sutha Moliko wrote:
Issue with the Inventory and Deliveries.

I cannot access Deliveries through the Inventory. I believe they should appear under Corp Item - Market deliveries.

As there is no button Open Delivery or Corp Hangar(station panel), I tried the shortcut but it was not functionning. I had to transfer to a member to get the items in the station.

Keep the button Corp Hangar/Deliveries for a direct access to them through the new Inventory.


This is a pretty big issue. Developers, I assume you're aware of this?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#547 - 2012-05-04 23:28:25 UTC
PC5 wrote:

5. LP store prices
Please fix tag demands for items. Some items now cost over 1b... thats crazy and it cryies for dev intervention for years.
1m LP for navy apoc.... prices are crazy.

ATM (after price rised from 1000 LP/isk) we have around 1400 LP / isk from ships like Armag Navy, Apoc Navy, Omen Navy etc.
Apoc before inferno - sells for 450m costs 250k LP + Hull = 1400 isk / LP
Apoc after inferno - sells for 500m costs 500k LP + Hull = 809 isk / LP
Apoc after inferno - sells for 500m costs 1000k LP + Hull = 406 isk / LP

Prices of BSes will rise over 500m of Navy ships. Prices ballancing in LP store is the key here - waiting for dev blog.
Please remember - navy ships are our 'perls' in FW - if you broke mechanism which allows ppl to get/use them - were screwed. CCP has to be very carefull here.

Hoping I'm misunderstanding this as it would mean FW ship prices would exceed that of non-FW corps, or are those getting heavily nerfed? Or is this not representative of final numbers?
PC5 wrote:

Lets look at numbers - for example Datacore - Amarr Starship Enginering, lets say they sell for 300k each
1000 LP + 1m = 5 datacores = 500isk / LP
500 LP + 1m = 5 datacores = 2000isk / LP

I think price here is not bad.

1m isk/5 datacores makes a hard floor of 250K isk/core, several cores obtained from R&D agents now are lower than this rate currently. I can only assume that R&D agents will be getting the same or greater fees. Is this designed to increase costs of T2 production or are we again looking at placeholder numbers?
PC5 wrote:

7. LP for kills
4k lp for ishtar kill? Person who gots final blow gets LPs? If thats true - dosent sound good. Need more info here.
Overall this system looks like not finished on sisi. Not calculating ship real value?

Overall - more fights - big LPs nerf - could be 'good' or big disaster for many FW ppl.

Does this mean logistics and support roles go unpaid?
BulletMagnetMan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#548 - 2012-05-05 02:37:43 UTC  |  Edited by: BulletMagnetMan
• New missiles, trails and explosions - urm, in space? In a near or total vacuum? There's something wrong here. Straight
• Drone Damage module (Extrinsic Damage Amplifier) - nice
• CPU Rigs (Small/Medium/Large Processor Overclocking Unit) - it's about friggin time!! hurray.
• Light and Medium Web drones - again! about friggin time.
• Resistance shifting armor hardener (Armor Adaptive Hardener) - very clever idea.

Just as I'm about to quit EVE you make some reasonable changes ... typical.
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#549 - 2012-05-05 03:26:51 UTC
So there have apparently been a couple patches to SISI since this thread came out, is there anyway yall could update the OP with the updates, maybe highlight each thing that was changed added, so ppl don't have to search 8, 20+ page threadnaughts every other day to hope to glean some useful info out of the random posts. I know this is possible b/c it has been done in the past.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#550 - 2012-05-05 06:33:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Hidden Snake
Basic questions .... as I am out of access to game for next few days

is station lockdown removed from Sisi?

Is lp store nerf (ships) fixed? that is another thing where CCP thinks it is hitting farmers. However most of the farmers are gone for Incursions (which was the most economic catastrophy in CCPs history - promoting blobs again).

Datacores price fix is really needed, otherwise prices of t2 stuff will go massively up. I am not carebear, but CCP are u sure u wanna hit the backbone of production and economy? So we will all end up in 10 mil isk rifters? All your steps in past 8-12 months (since some null entities get near CCP - and viceversa) are showing u wanna hammer down all that working little ants which we like to kill.

All this stuff is now killing ur game ...


When i checked all changes I can say the new change can be called FACTION INFERNO - THE CCP/GOONERIUM NERF BAT STRIKES BACK . U really nerfing so many things I am surprised u really call this expansion. So we have to wait for RETURN OF THE JEDI.
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#551 - 2012-05-05 08:43:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Shade Millith
After fiddling around with the new Inventory window, I have to say I don't really like it.

I'd much rather use the Ships window to open various ship's cargo (And not have to use the bloody right mouse button). I want the option to double click a ship in the Ships window to open it's cargo in a separate window.

Because at least then I know what the ship IS that I'm opening the cargo of. Just having the list of ship names isn't very useful when you have dozens of ships. In fact it's pretty damn useless.



At the very least let us open the cargo of ships via the ship window (In a separate window, I hate having everything in one window)
kossyo
BRUTAL GENESIS
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#552 - 2012-05-05 13:58:58 UTC
Just so that you have another pilot in here saying station lockdown is complete no sense.
If I was CCP i would remove it right away.
I completly agree with HiddenSnake.
Stop nerfing all the things we love in this game, by making everything harder and take longer you will not gain more peeps you will lose them.
We like to login undock and PVP for 2 hours and not try for 7 hours to get our station back in order to play, no one would do that... Thanks for sharing this here so i can take stuff out of low sec before crappy nerf patches come in place.
Once again this is not motivating FW.
Sad times ahead for FW tough...
Think about this scenario:
- Have you consider people who only play for 8 hours on the weekend?
- Let say you have 4 BC = ~300M and you lose two on Friday night
- FW mission The Repraisal you can get right now is 3 times per day from all agents. 3x25k = 75k(Saturday) and 75k on Sunday if you are lucky that will be 6 missions x 30 min = 180 or ~3 hours max, now i have 150k LP for Scorpion Navy Issue 300M
- You lose another 2 drakes on Saturday night Having current LP is satisfactory to regain what you have lost for that time and still enjoying PVP, nerving that LP mechanics will upset people.
You want me to spent more time gaining LP and and even more time on getting the station back , sorry i will not.
Anariasis
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#553 - 2012-05-05 16:49:17 UTC
Some thoughts about the new armor hardener and the inventory:

Inventory:
- Please make the Cargo/Drone Bay Buttons in the Fitting-Window open an extra window and not switching the current Inventory-View to them
- Some confirmation after you've moved an item per drag&drop from one inventory screen in a different section would be nice (make the destination folder flash for 2 secs or so). So you woul know you've moved it to where you wanted.
- If you have ur ships named without their shiptype in name, it is now impossible to find out what ship it is without boarding it. This really is stupid. Nice solution would be changing the "ship" icon in the icon tree to display a miniature ship-icon (with faction/t2 tag etc.)

Adaptive Hardener:
- 60% maximum resistance as a maximum (when you get hit by only one dmg type over a longer time, like you are when fighting guristas for example) is just too much. That's B-Type hardener level, and it still can change!
Guess nice would be to make it 12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5 for the Meta 0 Version -> 50% maximum. Add some Meta 1-4 with Meta 4 having 55% max, and a T2 with same stats as Meta4 but higher skill requirements and cap-use (like most t2 items). Faction/Deadspace/Officer-Versions of it would be awesome!
- If you got hit for a long time by just one dmg type and the hardener has a 60/0/0/0 resistance profile and then the dmg switches to another type it will take the hardener longer to adapt than if you just turn it of (and reset the resistances) and back on again.
That just makes no sense, that it can switch faster if you turn it off than it can when running. (Didn't have time to try that last bit myself, but Corpmates told me it would reset resistances if you turn it off)
Arydanika
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#554 - 2012-05-05 19:08:48 UTC
I'm not sure if this has already been posted, but I figured I'd do my do diligence. The quantity display for some large item icons in the station Item Menu is missing. I have a screen shot of the error. The Scorch bomb item icon doesn't show a quantity even though there are four in the stack.

Other wise everything pretty cool. Good job on the Inventory system and the stealth bombers and bomb effects look great.

Runner of Voices from the Void podcast, Eve Online Pod Pack & DJ on eve-radio.com Sundays at 1800.  Organizer of the ATX Eve Online Meet. ♥
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#555 - 2012-05-05 19:54:42 UTC
Also ccp read the posts in waarfare and tactics ... More loud comments on upcomming chnages there.
TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#556 - 2012-05-05 20:56:36 UTC
The Ancillary boosters are f'king terrible. Wtf it burns your charges out in less than 30s, but then begins eating cap until you turn it off. THEN it takes 60s to reload 5 charges? wtf CCP?

Make it to where the module reloads while it is spending your capacitor. Also shorten the reload to 10seconds like the rest of the modules in eve for this. In its current state, only fools would use things packs of rubbish.

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#557 - 2012-05-06 06:19:06 UTC
TheButcherPete wrote:
The Ancillary boosters are f'king terrible. Wtf it burns your charges out in less than 30s, but then begins eating cap until you turn it off. THEN it takes 60s to reload 5 charges? wtf CCP?

Make it to where the module reloads while it is spending your capacitor. Also shorten the reload to 10seconds like the rest of the modules in eve for this. In its current state, only fools would use things packs of rubbish.

Well they are perfect for station gaming fits .... Omg .....fail

U can use diferent types of cap boosters for initial burn ....
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#558 - 2012-05-06 06:55:40 UTC
ok so wait. the new shield thing, I can't get in still. Does it use cap charges? or a new kind of charge?

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
12433411
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#559 - 2012-05-06 10:43:17 UTC
Thanks for implementing the new E-War effects UI presentation. Would it be possible to add an 'lock all' item to the context menu of those icons? For example, one could lock all ships that are currently disrupting him/her. Given they can lock that many targets of course.
Pandahead
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#560 - 2012-05-06 12:21:33 UTC
BulletMagnetMan wrote:
• New missiles, trails and explosions - urm, in space? In a near or total vacuum? There's something wrong here. Straight
• Drone Damage module (Extrinsic Damage Amplifier) - nice
• CPU Rigs (Small/Medium/Large Processor Overclocking Unit) - it's about friggin time!! hurray.
• Light and Medium Web drones - again! about friggin time.
• Resistance shifting armor hardener (Armor Adaptive Hardener) - very clever idea.

Just as I'm about to quit EVE you make some reasonable changes ... typical.



So... What, exactly, prevents missiles, trails and explosions in space? Space may well be a vacuum, but the missiles aren't picky about where they fly. They're designed to fly in space. Having a self-contained drive makes no sense, so fuel is logical too. Fuel means exhaust. Ergo, missile trail.

And seriously? No explosions in space? What in all seven circles of hell is wrong with your brain? These things have a goddamned explosive warhead, there is going to be a boom! That means little bits of missile, ship armour, and ship atmosphere, will go streaming off into space. Thus, there is an explosion.

I agree with the rest of your points, however.