Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I've been playing EvE over the past 5 years and I initially had a passion for the passive drake then fell in love with the nighthawk, but then over the years I fell in love with active tanking, more precisely armor tanking and the midslots it allows for pvp.



What is the problem? For those of you who only buffer your ships and call it good, you may not realize that there is a problem with tanking. First I will compare shield tanking to armor tanking.

Anyone whos anyone will know that active shield tanking IS superior to active armor tanking but they both suffer drawbacks. Ideally with high quality modules and implants you can get DOUBLE if not TRIPLE the tank from a active shield tank than from an armor tank. Right there-there is an obvious imbalance, but you can reason it that an active armor tank allows for more versatility because it has the mid-slots. BUT, not only is an active shield tank ships faster than active armor tanking ships, but it also in nearly every case does more DPS. So, with all things considered, there is an imbalance between active armor tanking and active shield tanking.

Thinking in general in regards to pvp, there is a serious drawback to both active tanks.

The major drawback is the Neutralizer. This single module can single handily destroy even the most well fitted exspensive active tank out there. In pvp you are going to run into pilots using them because nearly EVERY pilot puts a neut on their ships its almost become standard practices in pvp even on frigates. The problem does not lie in the functioning of the Neutralizer, it lies in the capacitor of the ship. So here is my solution to the problem of active tanks & Neutralizers.


--- Armor Repairs & Shield Boosters give a bonus to the Capacitor amount & Capacitor Recharge Rate of a ship while of course multiple modules of the same type will have its effects (not repair amount) penalized.

(For example)

Small Armor Repair (600 bonus to capacitor amount & 20% bonus to capacitor recharge rate)

Medium Armor Repair (1500 bonus to capacitor amount & 15% bonus to capacitor recharge rate)

Large Armor Repair ( 3000 Bonus to Capacitor amount & 10% bonus to capacitor recharge rate)

By implementing this it will allow for a more functional tank against neuts while still allowing Neuts to inevitably be effective against them in prolonged engagements especially in situations where a smaller class ship is being neuted by a larger class neut for example a Heavy Neut-neutralizing a cruiser. (Amounts are for a general concept of the idea)



For a balancing to bring armor tanks in line with shield tanks its simple really. Allow for an active armor tank implant set just as there is a shield one. It is my opinion that the active armor tank community will allow shields to have their speed and dps as long armor tanks has their midslots and an equal implant set.



The final problem is the amount that active tanks can sustain. Typically if there are 2 ships on an active tank (of course dependant on ship class) its tank will crumble *one problem is the vunerability of neuts* -So there needs to be a slight adjustment to the amount of dps that can be effectively tanked. Big question is how to do this? There are many ways to do this my suggestion is this.


---Implement a Skill Book that increases the repair amount and boost amount of repair modules by 5% per level.



------ With these changes it will obviously increase the functionality of active tanking in pvp outside of 1v1 combat. These changes will make active tanking a viable option when considering to buffer with speed and dps, or to active with tank.
What this skill actually equals out to in dps tanked is for example a Hyperion with a 978 defense rating with a fully T2 fit will get 244 more defense with this skill at Level 5 bringing it to 1222 defense with the added cap bonus to the repair modules it makes for a more effective ship putting it in line with the buffer tank in small scale pvp without creating an OverPowered effect.

Here are the giant gaping holes in your post though.
A. Shield and armor tanks are intended to be different. They make you make sacrifices depending on what type you're using (few ewar mods for shields, few damage mods for armor). This isn't a bad thing, it's called 'diversity'.
B. There are ways to deal with neuts, such as fitting cap batteries and rechargers. Yes, this forces you to make sacrifices in your fitting of damage/ewar mods to do so, this is intentional.
C. *shrug*, that and shield slaves have been talked about a lot, we'll see if anything happens
D. You can already boost your rep/second by training Repair Systems, I doubt we really need another skill just for rep amount.

OK, there's 10 general ways of tanking.

1) There's passive shield tanking generally specific to certain ships like drakes, rattlesnakes, gilas, sometimes ishtars, and sometimes myrmidons - http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/30991-The-level-3-4-Mission-Drake.html - this is most commonly a pve specialized tank, but is generally pretty effective in pvp if you mix it with ewar modules.

2) There's cap stable active tanking shields - http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/38645-Cheap-L4-Mission-Runner-Tengu.html - this is pretty much always specific to mission running. You die a lot when using this strategy in pvp.

3) There's non-capstable shield tanking which is often found tied to a cap booster - http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/50457-Golem-For-The-Proletariat-Masses.html - this is also typically a mission running strategy, but if mixed with ewar and in some cases a cap booster, this can be quite effective for pvp but is complicated to use, expecially if your opponent or the mission uses cap warfare.

4) Buffer shield tanking is generally the absence of a shield booster and is similar to passive shield tanking, but require to either have high dps, speed tank, or logistics in fleet in order to be effective - http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/59156-Tengu-Theory-Crafting.html - These typically rely on resistances and shield extenders to increase HP

5) Armor buffer tanking is generally the same as a shield buffer tank - http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/59156-Tengu-Theory-Crafting.html - these typically rely on resistances and plating to increase HP. Popular for pvp and some pve that generally requires fleets with logistics

6) Cap stable Active armor tanking this is pretty self explanitory. It is generally fitted cap stable. - http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/44080-Megathron-Alternative-for-L4-Missioning-rokh.html - This is generally a pve specific fitting style, but can sometimes be seen in pvp dieing a lot.

7) Non-cap stable armor tanking which is generally like the fitting given in 6, but perhaps with a larger armor rep, or even less cap in the mid slots to allow for other modules. It's a fairly popular way to pvp with an armor tank ship, but can also be effective in pve.

8) duel rep armor tanking is pretty much specific to pve. It generally allows you to be cap stable running a single rep, but has an extra armor rep that can be used to boost your tanking capability quite significantly for a short period of time - http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/22723-Megathron-113M-Dual-LAR-Mega.html - The second repper is generally only used when needed because it'll run you out of cap.


9) Speed tanking is mostly tied to buffer armor or buffer shield tanking which is very popular on strategic cruisers. Is is also becoming increasingly more popular to run with a non-cap stable tank. As long as you're stable with the resists and speed module, you'll only run the rep/booster as needed. However, this a lot of times is used by small class ships that wouldn't be able to fit much tank anyway - http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/60007-Manticore-PvP-solo-fit.html - they generally rely on their size and speed to protect them from high damage.

10) Finally there is spider tanking which relies of a fleet with each member having a fit that generally relies heavily on resistance and each member of the fleet fitting a remote shield booster or armor rep. This is generally a pretty popular fitting style to run wormholes. http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/58872-Drake-WH-shield-RR.html - The issue with fits like this is that it relies heavily on every member of the fleet being up. If someone goes down, it typically screws the fleet.

Now, these fits aren't specific to the ships I listed them fitted to, they're not limited to those ships nor are those ships limited to those fits. You can generally fit any shield tank ship with any type of shield tanking but you typically are either giving up tank, giving up speed, giving up cap stability, or giving up dps. However, it is possible to build a fit that is balanced around all of these aspects being evenly balanced, but can be difficult to do without spending a crap load of isk on pirate and faction modules. This is the same with the different methods of armor tanking.

As far as what the OP of this thread was saying...I have no idea... Both shield and armor tanks have much to give and much to take in order to able to either tank, dps, kite, etc. etc.. Much like duel reps is practically impossible of a shield tank and even if you do use it, it's highly in effective.
I have seen devistating fits of all these different tanking types in both pvp and pve, however, cap stable tanking is generally highly ineffective in pvp, so don't try it.

Fit buffer, bring a logi

Fit for active tank, prepare to die in a fire.

Problem solved. You get more +hitpoints and a secondary character to support it, you get more self reliance in a mission or belt ratting (cause outside a few specific multi-rep fits it doesn't work) with another.

Also, nerf DCU. To much of a crutch that prolongs PVP, reduce the hull resist to 20%, give four sizes like reps, and they gobble up corresponding cap similar to a rep. PROBLEM solved, more explodely and shorter battles