EVE Information Portal

Sry, couldn't handle myself :p

....oh! and i love sheeps! :D

try to read the tree-entrys . . .

http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/7xj81gnn/inventoryrevamp.png

make a valuable contrast referred to the custom color sets, or take for example the Header/Sub-header Color setting from 'general settings'
with more transparency to window color its more painful if another window is in back of inventory

Ok, I've fiddled with it a bit more and overall I'm getting a bit more used to it. But there are still key issues that bugs the hell out of me.

I would like to see some settings for this so it can be better customized.

1) Option to have the old ship cargohold window available (or a new one, but that is specificaly for the active ship cargohold and that is separate from the main inventory window), and option to have this window default open or not. And it's size and position must be retained from each log-in.

2) Option to have the main inventory window open when docking (or logging in and being docked), and close when undocking (but if it was open when you docked, it will remain open when you undock again).

3) When opening a can it should retain it's previous location and size. If two or more windows were stacked the last time they were opened, they should also stack when opened again the next time.

4) Corp hangar divisions must be labeled (but I guess you're already on that one)

5) With POS modules, there should be some sort of way to see if an array is within or out of range to open from current location (haven't tested this since I didn't take the time to set up a new tower, but from reading the blog)

6) Add functionality to use the back and forward buttons (thumb buttons) on your mouse to move back and forth in the history of inventory locations you have viewed.

Weeell… a bit harsh, but there is a kernel of truth to it.

The the old system was like System 7 Finder, new system is like Windows Explorer, but only up until the point where you want to play around with multiple windows. At that point, it breaks down.

The problem is basically this: the new inventory does away with the need to collect similar inventory windows in tabbed stacks, but it does not do away with the need to have multiple inventories open at once. That is a completely different problem and it requires solutions that aren't quite in place right now (things like TC's split view to show two locations at once). In addition, in the attempt to dabble in both, I feel (now that I've played with it a fair amount on sisi) that it has actually lost some functionality as I feared.

Most notably, I have completely lost control over where new inventories open. Use case: I have a bunch of stuff in my indy's cargo hold and want to transfer it to various parts of a POS hangar. So I approach the hangar and out of habit click “open cargo” on it… *bam* All my inventory windows now show the hangar(!) This not an optimal solution, because what I wanted was to have the cargo hold in one window, the hangar in another, and then drag stuff from one to the other while having both in view. Or even simpler scenario: I want to pick up some loot from a wreck… approach the wreck and click open cargo, and now my cargo view shifts to show the wreck, but I wanted that window to show my cargo hold — that's why i selected it.

Right now on TQ, I consistently use three different stacks for my inventory windows in all environments and an additional window for the hangar bay when in station: one is any kind of corp hangar (in station, at a POS, my Orca's corp hangar, construction platforms etc); the second is my ship cargo holds (all ship holds share the same stack); a third for “auxiliary” storage (drone bays, ore bays, ship bays, deliveries, cargo cans). This gives me a neat row of role-specific windows where each inventory opens in a pre-determined slot, and it gives me way to quickly and at a glance see what's available when I want to move stuff from one place to the next, or just check on my cargo status.

This kind of setup is no longer possible because every item location is available in every window. In and of itself, that's not a problem because it means I can rearrange things without having to shuffle a bunch of tabs around. The problem is that the new inventory is seemingly completely unaware of the ability to have two windows open and has no sense of context of what should open where — everything opens everywhere, which is most likely the exact opposite of what I want to happen. I would suggest that you either remove the “open cargo” button from the selected item window (worst solution), or you change the behaviour so that clicking that button opens a new window with the selected item as the default view (emulating what happens now), or (best, but most complicated solution), that I can select which inventory locations are available in each window — iow, if I could turn off things like ship cargo and drone bay in one window (and conversely turn off cans in a second window) so that whenever I come across a can and open it, it will only appear in that first window, leaving the second one showing whatever it was showing before.

If I want to use the folder structure, I still can by simply scooting up to the can/wreck/POS and expand the tree list once the can becomes available.



(waay)tl;dr: The unified inventory does a wonderful job of getting rid of tabbed stacks of inventory windows, but it does not properly handle multiple windows, and there are a bajillion use cases when you want more than one window open at once (be it for selectively moving stuff from one to another or because you want to be able to constantly see the contents of both). The behaviour when multiple windows are open creates new and annoying issues that actually makes the current solution better.

edit: Also, what Pierced Brosmen said above.

REMOVED TO PROTEST CCP's Community Censorship Protocol ("CCCP").

Yep.... this is because as certain dev already said in this thread, the fundamental idea behind the new system is to have only one window open and micromanage it by drag and dropping items through folder menu. They have clearly failed to realize that most item transfers which need any amount of sorting or comparing will be most likely done with at least 2 separate windows open. Only very simple item transfers shall be done with they way they planned and navigating with one window without back button is making even that an effort. Folder structure is really slow to use.

What comes to space, no sane pilot will start to loot few cap boosters or repair paste from some container to own cargo by drag and dropping them to some small label in some (possibly rather long) folder menu. In space it is important that things are clear and easily accessible. Drag and dropping items between windows or to some static hotspot is fast. Using menu structure is not. Many also prefer to have more screen estate and have several smaller (possibly stacked) windows rather than one huge window for item management when the focus is obviously in more important flying in space stuff.

They removed bottom bar window minimizing from neocom without consulting anyone and now the original idea without most additional inventory windows seemed to be just as bright. The way they work now clearly indicates the fact that they were supposed to be used only in random occasions and that one big new shiny inventory window for space and station should replace everything and make optimal vision become reality. Now because this isn't the case, the silence has taken over again - just like with the neocom.

Dejavu feeling is strong with this one. And yes - I've had beef with mr Optimal long time so I might be bit harsh with my comments. However after knowingly forcing us to see some blinking chat icon and revealing how much he is actually willing to change his own vision, he well deserves every bit I dear to share now and in future. Did I mention that he failed to comment most of the other critique towards the project back then also.


Yep... your setup is very similar to mine, except that most of my containers open stacked either to same window with corp hangar or to hangar floor window. Couldn't even think about doing any serious bigger items transfers with only one window using the "explorer". It is the access point but not the correct tool for it. I wonder how many use windows, the operating system, without multible windows open for file transfers requiring any sorting or comparing.

...but ...this is not... 1 window... good for all... ish?

Anyway I'm waiting for the next 7 years adapt or die period which will start with all the optimal fun you just described above.

quote edited, love it, delete post please

No, because the fundamental feature of TC (like Norton Commander before it) is the dual-pane view. It's what makes it such a superbly efficient file manager: because you always have a “to” and a “from” location, and a set of standard commands that take a “to“ and a “from” as its arguments…

Copy [selection of files] from A to B.
Move [selection of files] from A to B.
Compare [selection of files] from A to [selection of files] in B.
From [selection of files and directories] in A, search for X and display in B.
Package or unpack [selection of files] from A to B.
…etc…

The old system was inherently a multi-pane system because that was the only way it could be done. The new system tries to be a single-pane system, much like the Windows Explorer… but the problem is that single panes are pretty useless, which is why tools like NC/TC were invented. It doesn't have everything in one place — it has one thing at a time in one place, and the main advantage is that you can quickly select which “one thing” out of everything you want to see. There's a subtle but very important different in how those two solutions give you access to “everything at once”. Yes, just like Explorer, the new inventory lets you open multiple windows and thus emulate the old system (with a nice set of new features for each window), but in terms of having everything at your immediate disposal, it's no different from the old one because you still have to open all those windows. Only now, you have to shift-click a whole lot rather than have the different views you want open in new windows by default.

Now, in truth, neither system is even remotely like TC and the old one is unarguably lacking features, but at least it assumed that there would be multiple windows and you could arrange those windows in any setup you liked — the new ones wants to assume that there will only be one window, but the simple fact is that there won't be because that would be horribly inefficient (and it's exactly that inefficiency that the entire line of [whatever] Commanders throughout history has solved). Unfortunately, asking them to implement n-pane split views and quick tabs for different locations to begin to approach what TC lets you do might be a bit much at this point…

I'm beginning to think that one of the of the key areas where the new design falls down is how it handles “temporary” inventory locations — inventories that are not always available in the context you're in (in-station or space). For anything that's always available, it's fairly easy to create a window setup that does what you want, e.g. always having the cargo hold and ship maint bay open while in space, or always having the personal and corp hangars open while in a station. But even so, it lacks the context sensitivity you're describing here: the inventories you are interested in while in a station are often completely different than the ones you're interested in while in space. It would be very nice if the system was context-aware in that way: when in station, show three windows with inventories A, B, and C; when in space, show two windows with inventories B and D.

…and then, a new inventory is suddenly and temporarily available (such as a pos module or a wreck), open a third window with only that inventory (or at least with that inventory as default — if I then want to open up the tree view and fiddle around to see something else, I can), and then close that window when the temporary inventory becomes unavailable (rather than the current behaviour of going back to some default inventory).

Really looking forward to the new UI..!
Good job team Game of Drones... If the Stark family see what you've done, they'd say, "UInter is Coming".. ;)

He did. But you didn't. Please dont post anymore if you can't realize the problems.

This new inventory system worsen than old. Remove dockingbay and transfer ships to a merged inventory is a horrible idea.