These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New dev blog: Unified inventory

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#381 - 2012-05-04 14:42:31 UTC
CCP Optimal wrote:
Zakurai wrote:
Looks like it could be good or bad, either way I'll just have to give it a shot.

The only inventory improvement I really want is the ability to be able to use ctr - A, ctr - x, ctr - v. It would speed things up immensely and not change too much in terms of coding (I think). This would make looting in space much much faster and eliminate the hassle for the people that don't want to drag and drop (while getting shot at) Blink


Damn, we totally forgot about that. And by forgetting, I mean forgetting to mention that we've added this functionality in the blog! Sadly, some grumpy game designers didn't share my opinion that we should implement ctrl+c as well...

Yes this is very nice. In fact it was while testing ctrl-x functionality when I realized that there was not "back"-button available. Like if you wanted to take item from container and move it to another... you went to one, selected item(s), hit ctrl-x and wanted to go back to parent folder but the easy road ended there.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#382 - 2012-05-04 14:55:36 UTC
Eve keeps getting better every day. Very nice stuff

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
Malice Redeemer
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#383 - 2012-05-04 15:01:42 UTC
Ytamii Arval wrote:
What I spend more time doing than any other single activity is: fitting ships, with both the Fitting window and a container window open next to each other. Just tested this, and it cannot be done with the new giant-ass inventory window. Having to manually drag out windows to simulate the way I've always worked is a poor workaround for the following reasons:

Takes much longer to accomplish the same thing. Have to setup the UI from scratch every single time=fail.

There's far more UI lag than ever before (and it was already terrible). [In the past I've found that everything works much faster on test than live, so this bodes ill.]

Breaks what little immersion remains; there's no justification or explanation for such an interface. Containers are reduced to being merely folders, and probably will see little use going forward. Likewise, ships are reduced to mere folders--nothing feels 'real' anymore; it is indeed like using an OS for file management, instead of like playing an MMORPG. I don't pay $15 a month to role play 'outer space file clerk.'


The unified is too big to be practical for anyone other than station squatters. Just another nail in the 'spreadsheet game' coffin. Who needs ships and guns when you can play with filters? The conceptualization is good; the application is unusable. It needs to be one quarter the current size, probably impossible with the new non-scalable 'improved' fonts.

Really, think about it: your solution for the screen being covered with inventory windows is to cover the screen with an inventory window??? Your own screenies condemn your efforts: the inventory window coverage in the 'after' shots are just as screen-filling as those in the 'before' shots. Plus it takes much longer to get anything accomplished. Where's the improvement? You've replaced real physical organization with increased user-effort.

Another CCP 'solution in search of a problem.' Why do I want to be annoyed with ship cargo hold contents when I'm moving items from station to container? Must do better. Less is more. [BTW, I hide the tree navigation pane in windows file explorer because it serves no purpose.] And 'estimated isk value' is worthless nonsense; not ever am I going to sell everything I own all at once--knowing it's theoretical value tells me nothing.

As it always has been--Devs fiddle while Jita burns. Drones please.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#384 - 2012-05-04 15:15:58 UTC
CCP Optimal wrote:
DaiZ Do wrote:
Quote:
(...) and under Corporation you will see all the divisions accessible to you (the ones that you don’t have read access rights for are hidden).


This is not a good practice: As a corp member I may want to move items to hangars I don't have (view) access to. This happens a lot of times.


Good point. We'll be looking into this issue.



I have a loot drop hangar for corp mates to drop loot from kills they don't want to keep.

Would ruin my elegant solution. Ugh

Where I am.
Rina Jenet
Doomheim
#385 - 2012-05-04 15:32:06 UTC
This looks fantastic. Want naow! Well wanted 8 years 11 months and 10 days ago Blink
Thebriwan
LUX Uls Xystus
#386 - 2012-05-04 16:27:35 UTC
I am right now on Singularity. For a tryout.

And I have to state. The way it is right now: TERRIBAD!!!11elfelf

My tested uses cases:

a) View cargohold in space:
- press Button Cargo - opens Window with my cargo
- view contents
- press Button Cargo - closes Window with my cargo

* does not work anymore because window does not close.

b) Unload cargo into personal items on station
- be docked
- open cargo hold of active ship
- open items on station
- select all items in cargo hold (it should open where I had it the last time) when I opened my cargo hold)
- drop them into items

* works. But does not feel right anymore. Because I am not dragging to a different window but a little bar. Had to change position and size of inventory window, also for seeing the items-container I had to open the tree which I had closed because I don't want that in the way when I view my cargo.

c) put things into market
- be docked
- open items (it should open where I had it the last time) when I opened my items)
- open market window
- right click item
- select "sell this item"
...
next

* works. Had to change position and size of inventory window.

d) can mine / looting
- be in space
- open cargo hold (it should open where I had it the last time) when I opened my cargo hold)
- open can / wreck
- drag from one into the other

* works.

f) fit ship
- buy ship in market
- buy some modules
- open ship view by opening inventory, click on the little >>, select ships, find right ship
- right click "assemble ship"
- select "items" in the tree view
- right click "Fit to active ship"

* works. But as I had made the window small for d) I had to change position and size or fiddle with to much things in a now to small window. Besides I like to have my ship view with icons and my item-view as list. That is now an extra click every time.

Conclusion:

The functionality is there. But the feel isn't anymore. And I have to change position, size and view-setting of the window constantly.

The feature is very nice for searching, viewing and garbage collection. But for my use cases I would need something like:

* make it possible to open certain views every time at a certain position, size and view-setting.

aka: I want a ships view, a items view, a cargo view and a container view all in extra windows and fixed positions. And sometimes I want a big all in all.
CCP Optimal
C C P
C C P Alliance
#387 - 2012-05-04 16:28:25 UTC
Shandir wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:
Harrigan VonStudly wrote:
Excellent! I'd like to offer a small suggestion. Rather than type it all out again I'll just link it. Hopefully that's ok.

Small suggestion offered inside


This is something we very much wanted to do, but due to server load constraints, we just couldn't do it, as it would have required us to peek inside every single inventory location (which requires expensive server calls) every time you would open up the inventory. If we ever decide to convert EVE into a single player experience, then we'll be doing it in a snap!


For player owned locations, this data is totally cacheable. For shared locations, not so much.


Exactly, and we do cache this stuff, but you still have to fetch the entire thing the first time you peek inside an inventory location during each client session, as you might have logged in on another machine, or some other, inventory changing external events might have happened.
Hoshi
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#388 - 2012-05-04 16:29:15 UTC
If you are going to unify why not take the opportunity and put assets under it as well. Place them under a Remote Stations header or something.

"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
CCP Optimal
C C P
C C P Alliance
#389 - 2012-05-04 16:33:09 UTC
Hoshi wrote:
If you are going to unify why not take the opportunity and put assets under it as well. Place them under a Remote Stations header or something.


This is something we have on our backlog; either updating the look and feel of the assets window to match the new inventory, or simply merge it in.
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#390 - 2012-05-04 16:51:59 UTC
I checked this out on the test server. It took a while to get used to it but as I use it, the easier it gets. No longer will I need to struggle getting drones into the drone bay rather than the cargo.

The filters is a great addition IMO.

Does this work in a pos where all POS assets and storage will all be in one window?

Would make managing them a whole lot more easier!
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
#391 - 2012-05-04 17:22:05 UTC
Ok so just a few minutes ago whilst thinking about this I had something of a brainwave, which I think would alleviate many of my personal and indeed other peoples issues with usability: Allow us to have inventory windows lock when pinned! Now this totally sounds like the "lock when pinned" option we already have that prevents moving/resizing windows but that's not what I mean, rather that when pinned inventory windows should lock to showing whatever they are showing at that time (unless explicitely modified by the player), irrespective of whatever other operations you carry out with opening/closing other inventory windows.

How would this end up working? Well say like myself and others you like to always (or nearly always) have active ship cargo open, you would shift-click to get this into its own window, set it up where you wanted and pin it. Now regardless of whatever else you do this window would persist showing active ship cargo, you could operate other inventory windows freely without impacting that window, or as happens now the client trying to use it for the next open-inventory event. Of course this would work with as many inventory windows as required, so we could setup a whole bunch showing whichever inventory location we wanted (ie corp hangers, fuel/ore bays) with whichever filter(s) applied that we wanted and they'd persist in that state untill either the user closed or modified them to show something else.

In particular this would be awesome in station as well as 'fixing' the cargohold/loot can issue (I imagine it being possible to have a window setup that shows 'cargoinspace' type windows only that would open/display nearby wrecks/cans in its tree as appropriate), as you could have multiple inventories pinned open with diferent filters applied meaning you could not only reproduce current functionality whereby everytime you dock ship hangar/station items hangar are already open, but you could also have many more windows filtered to each show say hardeners/ammo/BPOs/minerals only, giving you quick access to what you frequently want without having to manually apply filters each time, and with all those 'core' inventory windows pinned+locked you can freely open/close and modify a single inventory window to 'work' with.

Now just have to wonder how hard/not it would be to implement this behaviour...
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#392 - 2012-05-04 17:25:13 UTC
I was testing new inventory on singularity and I must say it is major pain in the butt. I have flowing problems with it:

1) it does not memorise window settings (size and activated options) relatively to specific type of item compartment being examined.
2) can not be compacted to be as small as old inventory windows could
3) requires more clicking to perform basic actions and lacks automatic windows closing and opening functions of old system

For example when docked I have my base inventory open and in separate window I have my ships open. I close inventory window and unlock but my ship window remains open and now shows cargo of the ship, instead of simply closing as it did before. One needles click more to close it, and of course about 3 more needles needles clicks when I dock to open my inventory and from it again separate ships hangar window.

Then in space I eject some junk to see how loot window looks and to my surprise it occupies good part of my screen as it uses size I had inventory window stretched in station. This is very bad. I resize my loot window to manageable size, click loot all, but instead of auto closing as it did before now it reverts to my cargo, so I have to manually close it. I already can imagine what a pain it would be to use this now system when looting and salvaging in my noctis. But more annoyance comes when I dock up and open my inventory. Surprise! It is now of the same size I had it set to loot that container in space and I have to stretch it up to size more fitting to manage station inventory, and ,of course, separate window for may ship hangar because it no longer can be set to open on its own in separate when docked up in station. Sad

CCP you did good work with with filter options and auto price calculator, and I appreciate that but new systems removes good part of functionality of old inventory system and you can not deploy it on main server in condition it is now. It needs more work. You need to give it back ability to memorise size and position depending on type of inventory compartment that is being examined, and for windows to auto open and close when appropriate. Also it would be nice if you could make it possible to shrink those new windows to smaller size as it was possible with old inventory windows.

Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows...
Tanaka Aiko
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#393 - 2012-05-04 17:52:10 UTC
the BPCs on inventory are valued as BPOs on singularity, you should so something about that... it's bad to make people think they are rich when they are not :P
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#394 - 2012-05-04 18:09:17 UTC
Mr Optimal it would be really nice to get update what is going to happen to this thing next and what changes are going to be made. I know that you don't like me one bit because I've been doubting your (teams) ability to provide finished products since the neocom project, but I'm still the customer who has to deal with the stuff you upload to the server. Probably next 6-7 years in fact.

It would be great if all teams and members wanted to be proud of their work and accept not any half baked solutions. Most teams and individuals have reached this level and earner healthy amount of respect since CCP refocus and increased communication. After reading all the replies in this thread and test server thread, together with the sad history with neocom, the jury is still far out with you guys.

You may get rather positive feedback now when you have new nice devblog with nice pictures up, but when people go and actually test this thing they find out all the small but very important flaws and annoyances which are still there. The backslash will hit forums when this thing goes live - just like with neocom. That is if you leave it as it is at the moment.

You got nice feature rich update coming here which has all the basic ingredients of being awesome. How about finishing it this time and also realizing that you might have strong vision about "perfect world", but it might not be perfect for someone else.

Here is the link for your convenience again. I'm waiting for the comments why these aren't worth "fixing" if that is the case like it seems. Silence and ignorance usually just make me whine more if you haven't noticed already .)

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Sarhyl Connaly
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#395 - 2012-05-04 18:33:27 UTC
One very specific filtering want from me - could it be possible to have personnel preferences for the order in which item groups are displayed? I want to be able to find ammunition right after weapons in my 'warehouse', and it makes more sense to me to have minerals with planetary resources appearing further down, among other things - but I know other people will have their own desires, depending on what they use most and their play style. In general we should be able to configure the interface so our go-tos are immediately accessible. Thank-you for your time.

I write Afterburning Weasels.

We're all faffing about. Why not enjoy it?
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#396 - 2012-05-04 19:18:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Greygal
Not sure if this has been mentioned or not yet...

- Corporate hangars show as "Division 1," "Division 2," etc., instead of whatever those particular tabs are actually named. I've no clue which hangar section is Division 3, but I do know that the stuff I want is in the "Supplies" tab... maybe that's Division 4?? Lol

- Would be nice if whatever I type in the Search box of the Inventory window would STAY there even if I move to a different folder. For example, I'm searching for a bomb launcher. It might be in my items, it might be in my corp hanger, or a container. Since searching via the inventory window only searches whatever particular "folder" you have active at the moment, and not subfolders, it would be nice if I didn't have to retype my search every time I move to a different folder (or make searching through subfolders available)

- Love the predefined filters! What exactly constitutes a "valuable item" though? It's including items that are well under one million isk...

Sure would be nice if we could add our own folders to our Items...hint hint...

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!

Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
Rammix
TheMurk
#397 - 2012-05-04 19:26:41 UTC
I love new inventory.
But there is one little bug: when you trash something its icon stays there until you reopen the inventory.
And sometimes multiple items bought on the market look like single (no number on them).

Who says new inventory takes too much place, you just try hiding the tree view and/or resizing the window. It can be resized as good as the old inventory. Everything's fine with its size.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#398 - 2012-05-04 19:42:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
Old Inventory system = Swiss Knife = Total Commander
New Inventory system = bags of crap = Windows Explorer

Who want to using W. Explorer if had Total Commander ?

Submenus under submenus lol and hangar have another submenus lol
Seloena
Mighty Orca Inc
#399 - 2012-05-04 19:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Seloena
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Old Inventory system = Swiss Knife = Total Commander
New Inventory system = bags of crap = Windows Explorer

Who want to using W. Explorer if had Total Commander ?

yeh, don't play EvE, go for commodore!
Seloena
Mighty Orca Inc
#400 - 2012-05-04 19:49:53 UTC
#400 ^^