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Inferno Features on Singularity

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Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#521 - 2012-05-03 23:10:27 UTC
Errrm...Apropos nothing else whatsoever:

The ability on SiSi of tracking disruptors to affect missile explosion-radii:

Flush this down the deepest, stinkiest toilet you can find.

Like, immediately.

Missiles don't need nerfing despite what all these puling crybears infesting these forums would have you believe, or do CCP's own damned devs not understand how missiles--using the effing formula they invented!--self-balance in actual combat if, among other factors, the target is moving, at all?

And what affects delayed damage on target can have on a fight?

And the cycle-time + stacking penalties (which should be there, just so we're clear--but ask any PvE Golem pilot about those) of target painters, especially given the delayed arrival of damage-on-target?

If you keep this, then either buff Target-painting, or rework the base-stats for explosion radius, and especially explosion-velocity for larger missiles (the latter of which needs to happen regardless. Some people might actually want capital-size missiles to be more than a joke for anything other than structure-bashing.).

Ni.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#522 - 2012-05-03 23:21:23 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
well I really wanted to wait to get on the tst server but the mechanics is broken right now and I feel like leaving some more constructive feedback.

Step 1
Make all stations 100% dockable for everyone

Step2
When a side takes all of the systems within a constellation, Then the stations are locked down.

Step3
The stations are now owned by the ammar/minmatar governments , and during a time of war they choose to limit all players in eve online from using all of the station services based on that players standings towards ammar.

So even if your not involved in FW, you will have to pay double repairs fees, be locked out of station services and such, as long as the ammar FW hold every system in the constellation.

Step4
Automatic roles based on Rank in FW.

So FW has this 10 tier system of rankings. Why not tie this into FW? Now my idea would be to tie this into the idea that a rank 5 player gets 100% normal access like any player would have at any normal station. This means if your in FW for the ammar side, but only just joined so your a rank spy, you wil have very very limited access. If you want the benefits, you'll have to go out and get some PvP kills and actually help your side before your considered worthy for the benefits of holding a system.

While the meta game spying thing would still exist, this would stop people from just rolling random alts, as you'd have to roll that alt, and then actually do something to aid the Side you've joined before gaining the benefits and access to the system.

So for instance a rank 3 minmatar militia player would still have to pay higher taxes on repairs and market transactions while in a system the minmatar militia control.

While a non FW players who has allways lived around minmatar space but isn't in FW would still be able to access the station. However in a minmatar controlled constellation, even non FW players would be unable to dock without at least a 0.2 standings towards minmatar. And then get hit with high charges for using the market/other services.

Once you hit rank 5 you level out, and from there you start to gain benefits. Rank 10 players having the higher reward for controlling systems. Which, honestly, isn't very hard to get to rank 10, so calm down spy players. you'll still be able to make your way up the ranks so you can back stab everyone by giving away tactical information to your allies in the Ammar.

Also by making this harder to do, spying I mean, it make it more fun to infiltrate the enemy with an alt and earn your way up by killing your old team mates in battle.


Factional warfare would be awesome if it was a constellation based system that doesn't care if your in FW or not. And there is lots of space out there, the players that aren't in FW can move out or deal with the new opportunities this could bring. Any constellations not 10% owned by a side on the other hand would act like normal low sec.

Meaning if some pirates don't want to kicked out of thier space, they too are now puled into the war. Fighting to keep either side from wining the whole system. Effectively turning FW into a 3 way war. The minmatar, the Ammar, and the Locals, caught in the middle.

What this would really mean
Small gangs could roam into a controlled constellation, and by taking out just one system, dock in any of the stations they want.

This also gives a role to small defense roams, since you'd be able to find other fleets to fight of 5-10 people, if 5-10 people could make such a large difference by taking out a single system control.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#523 - 2012-05-03 23:22:28 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:
Errrm...Apropos nothing else whatsoever:

The ability on SiSi of tracking disruptors to affect missile explosion-radii:

Flush this down the deepest, stinkiest toilet you can find.

Like, immediately.

Missiles don't need nerfing despite what all these puling crybears infesting these forums would have you believe, or do CCP's own damned devs not understand how missiles--using the effing formula they invented!--self-balance in actual combat if, among other factors, the target is moving, at all?

And what affects delayed damage on target can have on a fight?

And the cycle-time + stacking penalties (which should be there, just so we're clear--but ask any PvE Golem pilot about those) of target painters, especially given the delayed arrival of damage-on-target?

If you keep this, then either buff Target-painting, or rework the base-stats for explosion radius, and especially explosion-velocity for larger missiles (the latter of which needs to happen regardless. Some people might actually want capital-size missiles to be more than a joke for anything other than structure-bashing.).


I'm all for a target painting buff. but otherwise yes. what he said.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#524 - 2012-05-03 23:31:29 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
well I really wanted to wait to get on the tst server but the mechanics is broken right now and I feel like leaving some more constructive feedback.


Some nice ideas, but they're not feedback. Feedback is your reaction to specific content on SiSi, this is a lot of "do this instead" stuff that is really too late for the Inferno release, but might be usable in the next FW expansion in the winter.

I encourage the FW community to keep things focused in this thread, its not fair to all the other players who are here to actually help the devs figure out whats working and broken on the test server.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#525 - 2012-05-03 23:49:18 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
well I really wanted to wait to get on the tst server but the mechanics is broken right now and I feel like leaving some more constructive feedback.


Some nice ideas, but they're not feedback. Feedback is your reaction to specific content on SiSi, this is a lot of "do this instead" stuff that is really too late for the Inferno release, but might be usable in the next FW expansion in the winter.

I encourage the FW community to keep things focused in this thread, its not fair to all the other players who are here to actually help the devs figure out whats working and broken on the test server.


understood. Guess it's hard since the changes don't seem to be fully put in place yet. I'll wait for sisi tp be fully updated, post feedback on what we will have.

Understand us FW people have waiting 3 years for.. well... anything. And I think a lot of us worry this is it. And we won't get the winter expansion, or even another pass at what's going live on TQ in a few weeks for another 2-3 years.

However if you guys want us to keep it bit more focused, please promise you'll keep the flame to CCPs toes? Tell them the changes on SiSi are a 1st step but feel unfinished and they can't just put us off for another 3 years. As long as someone in the CSM promises to champion for these ideas being posted in these thread as feedback to what we are seeing, then we won't have to feel so desperate.

So my feedback for whats on SiSi is,

-It feel unfinished
-it needs constellation wide control for shutting down stations to feel right and be recoverable without blobs of death. The system currently doesn't work very well imo from what I've seen.
-Give the losing side more LP rewards for actions in PvP, to the point where joining a side with no systems should feel like a great opportunistic setting to make some money. Tie the largest way for the losing side to gain LP being part of the fight that turn a system. If you don't do this people might like to stay losing, just to get more LP by only pvping.
*note my earlier post on this*

note my ideas on how to fix these things isn't important, if you have other ideas how to fix the same problems I'm addressing please do. But do it before release. Like the LP reward payout for the losing side and such. I'm not really attached my suggestions, as long as you can read between the lines as to what problems I find on SiSi that I'm trying to address based on what I've played yesterday *at 10fps* before release.

I hope this smaller, focused feedback list helps in some way stir some creative though, and you don't push whats on SiSi out without some tweaks.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#526 - 2012-05-04 00:27:44 UTC
Just got this from someone on SiSi. No LP for defensive plexing is this an oversight or intended?

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#527 - 2012-05-04 00:41:53 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
Two step wrote:
[quote=Hans Jagerblitzen]



FW people live in low sec!

wake up guys ... locking systems is making **** quite problematic for other side because u get push into highsec. Nobody is interested in some sort of nullsec sov hybrid.

What is great on current state is that u can live in low sec and fight in low sec. I still support any occupancy changes, if they will allow me to revert them with some effort. This change is currently advocating overblobing and is promoting more numerous parties (currently Minnie and Gals).

Economical motivation means nothing if ocupants will overblob u and will have economical bonuses from their lp stores.

Also most of FW pilots are in it for PVP (scale not matter in this case). And you are sugesting major regulating mechanism will be some vague LP bonus. Sorry it is very strongly pointing to the fact that the changes are just quick pile of ideas (mostly from nullbears) and there is no conception for lowsec on table.

U can hit me for me hitting Hans ... but honestly ingame reponse i have from lowsec dwellers is quite positive to my arguments.

BTW when I was first time pointing to facts about strong influence of nullbears (Mittani) to FW people were laughing ... here we go ....


I wont defend the knee jerk reaction snake made in assuming someone is biased towards one side or another.

BUT

I will stick up for Hidden Snake on his issue of not encouraging ppl to base out of highsec. To truly understand where he is coming from you have to go back to the days I joined Caldari militia where pretty much everyone in Caldari Militia was basing out of Nourv (0.5 system adjacent to Tama) and getting people to leave highsec and base out of lowsec was a HUGE issue for Hidden Snake as well as many a good caldari fw corp.

When he was finally able to drag his corporation kicking and screaming by the hair (including myself) from highsec to lowsec he got pilots willing to be dedicated to a lowsec forward base with less distractions of highsec and more pvp focuse. If i understand him correctly he is worried this will encourage peope to move their assets out of lowsec. Thus taking the caldari back to square one with being strangled by the gallente in the Tama choke point.

I for one am somewhat worried about this two i would really like to see pilots keeping their assets in lowsec rather than panicking and moving everything out to highsec altering the face of faction warfare to be a place where all the action is adjacent to highsec entry points instead of deep into lowsec the way it is now.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#528 - 2012-05-04 04:00:03 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
And if not, than they deserve to lose their space. v0v


And there goes your neutrality. Welcome back Ankh, I quess....

You seem to think that being able to soak punishment and losses automatically means success. To quote immortal words of Private Frost, "What the hell are we supposed to use man? Harsh language? "


Everyone thinks that this will be major victory for minmatar and gallente.

But fact is that these changes are not changing anything really. Still systems are captured by faction who have patience to grind more than others. What happened last time when caldari grinders started to plex, only reason why they stopped was that CCP messed thing up too badly.

If some side manages to form up similar force than example PERVS was, nothing can stop them, not even jesus blob. I remember times when 4 PERVS cleared out 40 gallentes, and 6 PERVS slaughtered 30+ minmatars, all enemies got slaughtered so much that they quit plexing totally and said 'take all system, we do not care'.

So how will this patch change the fact that i might come back and form up similar gang again, there are no single thing that changes the fact that if you lose too hard in plexes, you will stop trying.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#529 - 2012-05-04 04:38:03 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
And if not, than they deserve to lose their space. v0v


And there goes your neutrality. Welcome back Ankh, I quess....

You seem to think that being able to soak punishment and losses automatically means success. To quote immortal words of Private Frost, "What the hell are we supposed to use man? Harsh language? "


Everyone thinks that this will be major victory for minmatar and gallente.

But fact is that these changes are not changing anything really. Still systems are captured by faction who have patience to grind more than others. What happened last time when caldari grinders started to plex, only reason why they stopped was that CCP messed thing up too badly.

If some side manages to form up similar force than example PERVS was, nothing can stop them, not even jesus blob. I remember times when 4 PERVS cleared out 40 gallentes, and 6 PERVS slaughtered 30+ minmatars, all enemies got slaughtered so much that they quit plexing totally and said 'take all system, we do not care'.

So how will this patch change the fact that i might come back and form up similar gang again, there are no single thing that changes the fact that if you lose too hard in plexes, you will stop trying.


well i might sound biased to Caldari (hell I am Caldari CEO and FC), however my concern is even for other sides. The war might flip to irreversible state(and currently with favor on Gal/Minnie side) and can harm one side by push to highsec.

Actually I am considering moving to some borderzone of Syndicate might be also useful.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#530 - 2012-05-04 04:43:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Messenger
Hidden Snake wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
And if not, than they deserve to lose their space. v0v


And there goes your neutrality. Welcome back Ankh, I quess....

You seem to think that being able to soak punishment and losses automatically means success. To quote immortal words of Private Frost, "What the hell are we supposed to use man? Harsh language? "


Everyone thinks that this will be major victory for minmatar and gallente.

But fact is that these changes are not changing anything really. Still systems are captured by faction who have patience to grind more than others. What happened last time when caldari grinders started to plex, only reason why they stopped was that CCP messed thing up too badly.

If some side manages to form up similar force than example PERVS was, nothing can stop them, not even jesus blob. I remember times when 4 PERVS cleared out 40 gallentes, and 6 PERVS slaughtered 30+ minmatars, all enemies got slaughtered so much that they quit plexing totally and said 'take all system, we do not care'.

So how will this patch change the fact that i might come back and form up similar gang again, there are no single thing that changes the fact that if you lose too hard in plexes, you will stop trying.


well i might sound biased to Caldari (hell I am Caldari CEO and FC), however my concern is even for other sides. The war might flip to irreversible state(and currently with favor on Gal/Minnie side) and can harm one side by push to highsec.

Actually I am considering moving to some borderzone of Syndicate might be also useful.


Do not worry, we can still use Villore as base.

Edit: best scenario is to base in Villore and force gallente to move back to highsec.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#531 - 2012-05-04 04:45:09 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
And if not, than they deserve to lose their space. v0v


And there goes your neutrality. Welcome back Ankh, I quess....

You seem to think that being able to soak punishment and losses automatically means success. To quote immortal words of Private Frost, "What the hell are we supposed to use man? Harsh language? "


Everyone thinks that this will be major victory for minmatar and gallente.

But fact is that these changes are not changing anything really. Still systems are captured by faction who have patience to grind more than others. What happened last time when caldari grinders started to plex, only reason why they stopped was that CCP messed thing up too badly.

If some side manages to form up similar force than example PERVS was, nothing can stop them, not even jesus blob. I remember times when 4 PERVS cleared out 40 gallentes, and 6 PERVS slaughtered 30+ minmatars, all enemies got slaughtered so much that they quit plexing totally and said 'take all system, we do not care'.

So how will this patch change the fact that i might come back and form up similar gang again, there are no single thing that changes the fact that if you lose too hard in plexes, you will stop trying.


well i might sound biased to Caldari (hell I am Caldari CEO and FC), however my concern is even for other sides. The war might flip to irreversible state(and currently with favor on Gal/Minnie side) and can harm one side by push to highsec.

Actually I am considering moving to some borderzone of Syndicate might be also useful.


Do not worry, we can still use Villore as base.
Come to my mind too ;) However we became quite trigger happy company so my sec status received some serious hits .... CONCORD is not very happy about me;)
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#532 - 2012-05-04 05:04:37 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
[ Come to my mind too ;) However we became quite trigger happy company so my sec status received some serious hits .... CONCORD is not very happy about me;)


start working on it Blink, make concord happy
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#533 - 2012-05-04 05:41:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Hidden Snake
Bad Messenger wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
[ Come to my mind too ;) However we became quite trigger happy company so my sec status received some serious hits .... CONCORD is not very happy about me;)


start working on it Blink, make concord happy
they are like my wife ... never happy .... What? ... that is why we play eve ... right?

ps: yesterday accidently poded guy in a belt ;( ... closing to -5 again .... Roll
Tess La'Coil
Messerschmitt Vertrieb und Logistik
#534 - 2012-05-04 06:45:55 UTC
Just did some testing with the cruise launchers on the Navy Scorpion and must say I'm not amused by the way the slot vs visual slot is allocated.. 
Someone once said I was a muppet. If that's so, I'm quite sure the Swedish Chef is my brother. 
John Rourk
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#535 - 2012-05-04 09:56:41 UTC
You can no longer open the Fuel Bay on a ship that you aren't currently in. Please change the inventory to allow this again.

Also a short-cut for opening the Fuel Bay and Corporate Hangers would also be nice.
Unkind Omen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#536 - 2012-05-04 11:24:05 UTC
Most of pvp-players rename their ships to something uninformative like "-" or "." to prevent owner name being shown in directional scanner result. WH corps also rename their ships in a special way to distinguish allies from enemies. And new inventory uses ship name instead of ship type in tree view, though they are not informative at all. I recommend to add ship type to listed ships, so it will look like
Ships>
---(Drake)
^^(Hyperion)
Deadly killer(Moa)
instead of
---
^^
Deadly killer
PC5
project HAVEN
#537 - 2012-05-04 12:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: PC5
Hans if you want feedback about FW ill give you one. Sorry for my english.

1. Station lockdown
Why ppl are so woried about it? Its so easy to avoid that 'consequence'.
I like this as 'consequence' but its no big problem for our small group of 20 pilots becasue :
a) well quit FW for a while and still be shooting minmatar militia - naped with other Amarr FW corps/alliances - then we can dock and do whatever we like and laugh at all this mechanic. With alts in militia i can work on gething system back. In this scenario we get plenty of fights but no LPs for our mains. Our SS dosent matter, were < -5 after all.

Conclusion :
- lossing few LPs, still can dock and do whatever we want on alts in militia
- this whole mechanic affects only ppl who need to be in militia for
a) nice small/med fights
b) get easy LPs

2. We dont have to be in militia to fight for complexes and teake systems.
Example : 10 non FW pilots in plex + 1 FW alt which is teaking plex.
What would hurt us? If neutrals wont be allowed to enter plexes - only FW pilots. That what i call consequence. You want to fight for that system - you have to be in FW. Even then we can just camp entrance to plex...

3. Capturing plexes and rewards
Nice feature but why ONLY ONE pilots get the reward for capturing?
Example : Major Stronghold - it gives 30k LP - teakes 20m to capture, but on SISI only first pilot who started countdown trigger gets LPs - rest gets 0 (zero, null, nada).

4. Rewards for uprgading system are bad joke
Who needs more production slots in lovsec when there are thousands free in lov and hisec?
Clone discounts? In 7 years ive updated clone max 10 times - no value to me at all.
Brokers fee discount..... no use or so little its not intresting at all.

Only thing thats worth uprgading is possibility to use cynojamer. Rest is crap crap.... mega crap.

What would be nice? Few exapmles things WORTH fighting for:
* At some uprgade level sentries will attack oposite fraction - same way as ppl with GCC
* 90% reduction costs for repairs
* +10% shield/armor/speed of controling militia ships in this system
* better PI on planets in that system (more resources or other benefits, another reason to fight for customs and give many good fights)


5. LP store prices
Please fix tag demands for items. Some items now cost over 1b... thats crazy and it cryies for dev intervention for years.
1m LP for navy apoc.... prices are crazy.

ATM (after price rised from 1000 LP/isk) we have around 1400 LP / isk from ships like Armag Navy, Apoc Navy, Omen Navy etc.
Apoc before inferno - sells for 450m costs 250k LP + Hull = 1400 isk / LP
Apoc after inferno - sells for 500m costs 500k LP + Hull = 809 isk / LP
Apoc after inferno - sells for 500m costs 1000k LP + Hull = 406 isk / LP

Prices of BSes will rise over 500m of Navy ships. Prices ballancing in LP store is the key here - waiting for dev blog.
Please remember - navy ships are our 'perls' in FW - if you broke mechanism which allows ppl to get/use them - were screwed. CCP has to be very carefull here.

6. Datacores
Current price of datacores on sisi is probably broken same as other ships.
1000LP + 1M for 5 datacores.

Lets look at numbers - for example Datacore - Amarr Starship Enginering, lets say they sell for 300k each
1000 LP + 1m = 5 datacores = 500isk / LP
500 LP + 1m = 5 datacores = 2000isk / LP

I think price here is not bad.

7. LP for kills
4k lp for ishtar kill? Person who gots final blow gets LPs? If thats true - dosent sound good. Need more info here.
Overall this system looks like not finished on sisi. Not calculating ship real value?


Overall - more fights - big LPs nerf - could be 'good' or big disaster for many FW ppl.
Tenga Halaris
Galactic Traders Union
#538 - 2012-05-04 12:24:19 UTC
Did someone repackage or Stack larger quantities of different items yet? When I try, the game nearly freezes and it takes like 10 mins to repackage 250 items.

Any help?
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#539 - 2012-05-04 12:25:58 UTC
RE: NEW MISSILE FX

Visually the new missile animations are absolutely superb, from the spiralling rocket clusters to the initially languid accelerating torpedoes. Along with the vapour trails and the explosions, they totally outshine the turret animations now. The attention to detail is impressive too, with a different warhead deploying from the launcher on each cycle. The only misfire I noticed was when testing assault missile launchers from a Caracal, there was an errant mid-cycle silent launch animation.

The sound effects are great for the most part too, I particularly liked the multi-pitched standard missile launch sound. I did feel that the battleship-sized missile/torpedo launch sounds could be a little bassier though - they sound quite tinny and weak for such a supposedly devastating warhead.

I want more BOOM.

EVE Online: The Text Adventure --- GameSkinny Correspondent --- Freebooted Blogger
Hayley Enaka
Bookmark Both Sides
#540 - 2012-05-04 12:44:01 UTC
Just a quick suggestion while I play around and think of some more, add the ship type to the end of the ship name in the inventory screen to help identify ships easier, eg. "Dumb Ship Name (Hurricane)"