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New dev blog: Observing the "Burn Jita" Player Event

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Author
Kiaa gihaa
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2012-05-03 21:07:21 UTC
Nice ops Goons and co.
But even "nicer" engineering done by ccp dev/programmers/rest of team...... I feel like humping some legs Big smile
Dibble Dabble
Capital Assets Inc
#202 - 2012-05-03 23:00:44 UTC
CCP are fools. This event was well planned by both Goons and CCP to sell the game. War and chaos sells more than those who seek a more stimulating experience.

The narcissistic goon leader should never have been allowed back in the game after his inexcusable but well executed blunder and who thinks the incident was an accident? I wonder how many devs are in goons and voted for that fool like so many lemmings and bot / RMT funded votes?

The actions of Goons, their leader and CCP are reprehensible in the extreme. Goons are in effect cyber bullies.

The sad fact is I can no longer recommend the game to others. CCP are simply going to use Eve to sell Dust. The slashing of the workforce shows all is not well in CCP land and they have now put all their eggs in one basket. When was the last time Eve broke its player count record, 2 years? Will it ever be broken again? I think not.

CCP are now not only selling hate but exploiting and supporting it. But how many noobs are coming into the game these days? How many stay? Fewer and fewer each month I would guess.

All good things must come to an end. I can no longer support this game, there is too much hate in this world without logging into a virtual world based on hate and greed. I joined on Day 1, I went to the 1st Fan Feast and now I must log off. I no longer trust CCP to deliver a product that will offer a balanced game, but one that is dictated by those who bought an election.

I am sure the lemmings will come out and flame but I really no longer give a **** and as for the lemmings I really do hope they do what lemmings do well and jump of a very high cliff.

From a technical point of view I congratulate the devs for their efforts. I am sure when CCP come to sell the technology your masters will not have to mine trit for a very long time.
Zulran Hans
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#203 - 2012-05-03 23:48:09 UTC
WILL THEY RISE?

Congratulations CCP, you guys did a great job!

Even as a casual player, I found Burn Jita really fascinating. It reminds me reading about history where barbarian hordes came into cities to plunder, **** (thank God EVE doesn’t let players to do that ;)) and murder the defenseless inhabitants.

The material gain wasn’t necessarily the primary motive. Bullies rarely take kid’s lunches because they’re too poor to buy food. It was more of a display of power; the hordes have the might to do whatever they want and no one can stop them.

Of course history shows that people rise up against oppressors again and again. I’m eager to see if that’s going to happen in EVE. The next time Goons decides to this, will the hisec alliances stay scattered too even slow down the operation?

Or will the CEOs organize a coordinated effort, inspiring thousands of their pilots to rise up and make a stand?
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#204 - 2012-05-04 00:52:41 UTC
There is a reason why EVE can not and will not grow, because CCP caters only to egomaniacs like the Mittani and effectivly endorses actions that drive players away. Usually the newest and most inexperienced players are made the victims and driven out of the game.

A few years back I would have happily recommended EVE to anyone but now I am not so sure. To be really honest I would not recommend EVE to anyone except extremely cold blooded accountants and maybe to people with narcisstic/ egomanic / or plain sociopathic tendencies.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#205 - 2012-05-04 01:02:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorv
Dibble Dabble wrote:
[...]War and chaos sells more than those who seek a more stimulating experience.
[...]
CCP are now not only selling hate but exploiting and supporting it. But how many noobs are coming into the game these days? How many stay? Fewer and fewer each month I would guess.


You accuse CCP of making choices on EVE based on your own statement that War and Chaos sells, but then you "guess" that fewer and fewer players are coming to the game because of that same War and Chaos. Your argument makes no sense and is contradictory. BTW what is a stimulating experience in a game like EVE to you?

Dibble Dabble wrote:
I am sure the lemmings will come out and flame but I really no longer give a **** [...]


If you really didn't give a ****, you would have never posted all that nonsense in the first place.
Katrina Bekers
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#206 - 2012-05-04 08:21:10 UTC
Blade M Howser wrote:
Looks as if ccp helped their favorite alliance gain alot of killmails by suggesting they burn jita and causing a bug with criminal flagging on the day this started.

You, sir, are criminally idiot.

I hope you lose interest in the game, uninstall the client and leave as soon as materially possible.

It's the other way round, if any! Looks as if CFC helped their favorite dev team gain a lot of live data and metrics by trying something that nobody ever tried in such a way and helping them finding and FIXING a bug with criminal flagging that would affect anyone in hisec and that was corrected on the next day it started.
Quote:
i think all ccp employees and volunteers should have their main characters and alts banned from joining any player corps or alliances

...As if we need a dev team even MORE disconnected from the game they code...

DIAF.

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>

Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#207 - 2012-05-04 11:59:39 UTC
Funny how the "CCP serves Goons" conspiracy theorists remain totally unimpressed by CCP banning Mittani and taking away his seat on the CSM.

But then again, that is the basic trait of conspiracy loons: Ignore all the contradicting evidence and only see what supports what you want to believe.

.

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#208 - 2012-05-04 13:24:07 UTC
Those metrics sure do point towards one racial weapon system (ship+gun) being slightly out of whack, eh?

Now that the emo's have gotten the rage-against-Jita over, how about declaring the lot of them as enemies of the State and denying them docking rights in all of Caldari and Amarr (allies with the corporates) space? .. Action - meet - consequence.

PS: Do the same for everyone who were shooting the monument last year just to be 'fair' Smile
Thelron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#209 - 2012-05-04 18:36:18 UTC
Lex Striker wrote:
Not sure if this belongs here, but here goes anyway...

I thought the tech part of this was great. I will give that to CCP [cheers]. However, one thing I question was the ability for Jita to truly defend itself. When the Goons started to attack, eventually everyone outside the Goons' Corp/Alliance should have been able to shoot them without CONCORD intervention... example...


I've had similar thoughts regarding the whole "ganking issue" for a while now- a combination of generally confusing mechanics (*when* am I allowed to open fire on a "criminal"? And what do they REALLY look like, as opposed to some of the very dated "official" information? CAN I shoot the pod? There should probably be a section added to the NPE that covers this even if an all-out PVP tutorial isn't in the works, and it should be high on the list of things to check whenever any related mechanics are changed) and generally lenient consequences (lose throwaway ship and wait 15 mins before repeating, and if you're really industrious have another character dispense replacement ships for you) mean people who want to gank are generally guaranteed the opportunity, while people who are about to be ganked (or who see a gank is about to go down) have few realistic options to prevent it even after multiple offenses. Once you add in the prevalence of multiple accounts and the general farmability of security status when someone *does* find being -10 starts to cramp their style...

I wonder if the GCC timer should be changed a bit, so there are separate timers for when CONCORD will kill you and when players can legally shoot you. The CONCORD timer would remain basically the same, "lose sec status and for the next 15 minutes if you're in space in hi-sec your ship is forfiet." The player-aggression timer would have a longer duration (perhaps 30 mins at first), so even after CONCORD is done with you, you're still basically auto-suspect and your next intended victim (or their buddies) can go ahead and blast you. If they do, you won't get another security hit for shooting back (or at anyone who reps them), though anyone who reps *you* inherets your ability to be shot-on-sight much like they'd inheret your aggression timer. The lower your sec status and the more recently you've last been CONCORDed, the longer the timer you get (so serial criminals are vulnerable for increasing lengths of time), until you sink your sec status low enough you're KOS anyway. With the longer window for player-dispensed retribution it might even be workable to reduce the CONCORD timer a little.

The main point is to make it so that there are still divisions between how you can interact between the "areas" of space and keep the feeling that the empires and CONCORD don't want individuals shooting each other willy-nilly in hisec, but loosen the rules a bit so you don't have to wait to be shot by the guy that's been shooting people all day before you can do something about it. Overall, the gankers should still be able to gank (unless they let themselves get camped into a station or something) and the lone "generic victim" types aren't going to be any better off than they were before, but it opens options up for people to take meaningful steps to protect themselves from "known criminals" beyond staying docked up and without relying on some NPC "hand of god" mechanic.

To me, the lack of that ability was the big letdown with "Burn Jita." Some corps were able to get wars active, but that not only required prior knowledge about the event but required the event to be (largely) perpetrated by corporations, and the related fighting didn't require one neutral to actually be shot at. There was no real chance for a dynamic response to develop on the player side with vigilante fleets forming and blasting criminals (who weren't going to be auto-blasted anyway). Hulkageddon is similar, a hulk with 5 heavily-armed warships guarding it is in most cases every bit as dead as a hulk with 5 iterons sitting around unless one of the warships decides to take it for the team and the losses for those involved in the ganking are in both cases entirely predictable ("lose X ships where X is how many ships fire"). Both events are somewhat impressive. Both need to remain possible. Both, however, could be much more interesting if EVE-Justice were a bit longer of memory and favored more of a vigilante style lasting consequence (based largely on your current actions) rather than just popping your ship and making it annoying if you don't go farm some NPCs every so often (regardless of when you actually did "bad things).
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#210 - 2012-05-04 19:48:58 UTC
Congrats to CCP for building a game that allows game play such as this. Player driven. Congrats to the null-sec'rs. They backed their words with ships and ammo (I have called them whiners in the past, but no whining here, just explosions).

I must admit, mostly being a small time trader, I avoided Jita for a few days, but these kinds of occurances are great for eve and its players. Keeps things fun and interesting.

And awesome to see the game performance was acceptable to great.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie

Oliver Stoned
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#211 - 2012-05-05 03:56:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Oliver Stoned
Thelron wrote:
Both events are somewhat impressive. Both need to remain possible. Both, however, could be much more interesting if EVE-Justice were a bit longer of memory and favored more of a vigilante style lasting consequence (based largely on your current actions) rather than just popping your ship and making it annoying if you don't go farm some NPCs every so often (regardless of when you actually did "bad things).


Solid points.
Why even have a security status or even Concord?

There is law, but where is the order?

Time for a Concord court system. Let's start a thread for this.

Another CCP isk sink, court fines.
If Concord responds, you are charged for them having to respond. Fuel and ammo do cost.
Not just the pilot, the corporation is fined.

Something the industrialist will like, a Eve tax on the corporation the criminal is a member of which will make buying
things more expensive.

Another idea that interests me.

How about a TSA system at gates and stations in empire.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#212 - 2012-05-05 12:09:18 UTC
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Congrats to CCP for building a game that allows game play such as this. Player driven. Congrats to the null-sec'rs. They backed their words with ships and ammo (I have called them whiners in the past, but no whining here, just explosions).

I must admit, mostly being a small time trader, I avoided Jita for a few days, but these kinds of occurances are great for eve and its players. Keeps things fun and interesting.

And awesome to see the game performance was acceptable to great.
Nice summary. Big smile

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

Atomic Virulent
Embargo.
#213 - 2012-05-06 01:11:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Atomic Virulent
Good lord.. I think I could vomit. If I didn't know better, I'd say that Goons are entirely made up of CCP employees. The homo-erotic softness and pure puffery every CCP employee has posted on here towards Goons, as if they are the most decent, intelligent people in the world, doing good for the game of EvE, is just sad and pathetic.

Burn Jita was a complete failure. In fact, Tritanium, the most basic measure of the market, ended up selling at a lower price after the fail-event ended than before it 'began' (as if anything really began).

I would love however, to see the totals in a few other categories..

1. Goon/Test losses vs. non-Goon/Test losses. My money is on Goons losing much more, AT LEAST 4-1 if not greater, than the players they were attempting to 'burn'.

2. Total ISK losses for Goons by means of ships destroyed and mods destroyed/dropped, time wasted.

I'd love to see CCP and Goons each take their penises out of eachothers mouths, EvE would be much more enjoyable for players who are not blindly following a sociopathic "internet lawyer".

Here's a hint for CCP. WE, the players, pay your bills. We, the players don't like Goons by a count of 5 to 1. 49,000 players voted AGAINST the sociopath and his sick, demented followers. A meager 10,000 votes (more like 2,000 - 3,000 original votes if you subtract all Goon alts to puff the vote) vs. a titanic 49,000 should let you, CCP figure that out. WE DON'T LIKE THEM OR THE **** THEY TRY, emphasis on TRY, to do.
Phoenix155
Valiant Reborn
#214 - 2012-05-06 01:44:54 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:
This is exactly what separates Eve from other MMOs. Thanks to the Devs for making this possible. Cool

edit : also i'd like to use this opportunity to point out one thing, we need the ability to show a wartarget-only overview, please :(

Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
You CCP jerks act like goons are heroes... cheering them, and quoting them in a dev blog?? I really have no respect for you anymore, but we all know, you don't give a damn about what a high sec player thinks of you.

If your so hell bent on EVE being a game of pirates and griefers, why do you even have concord and high sec??

Yeah, yeah, now the low/null dorks are all going to flame me, go ahead, I don't care.

HelloKitty Online is that way -------->


Completely agreed in the fact that CCP allows the players to pretty much do whatever the heck they want, within reason.

By the way, amazingly hot character picture. :-P

--Phoenix
Xathytoz
Roswell Project Victimz
#215 - 2012-05-08 02:07:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Xathytoz
Atomic Virulent wrote:
Good lord.. I think I could vomit. If I didn't know better, I'd say that Goons are entirely made up of CCP employees. The homo-erotic softness and pure puffery every CCP employee has posted on here towards Goons, as if they are the most decent, intelligent people in the world, doing good for the game of EvE, is just sad and pathetic.

Burn Jita was a complete failure. In fact, Tritanium, the most basic measure of the market, ended up selling at a lower price after the fail-event ended than before it 'began' (as if anything really began).

I would love however, to see the totals in a few other categories..

1. Goon/Test losses vs. non-Goon/Test losses. My money is on Goons losing much more, AT LEAST 4-1 if not greater, than the players they were attempting to 'burn'.

2. Total ISK losses for Goons by means of ships destroyed and mods destroyed/dropped, time wasted.

I'd love to see CCP and Goons each take their penises out of eachothers mouths, EvE would be much more enjoyable for players who are not blindly following a sociopathic "internet lawyer".

Here's a hint for CCP. WE, the players, pay your bills. We, the players don't like Goons by a count of 5 to 1. 49,000 players voted AGAINST the sociopath and his sick, demented followers. A meager 10,000 votes (more like 2,000 - 3,000 original votes if you subtract all Goon alts to puff the vote) vs. a titanic 49,000 should let you, CCP figure that out. WE DON'T LIKE THEM OR THE **** THEY TRY, emphasis on TRY, to do.


Can you provide any evidence on how 49k players voted explicitly against Mittani, and not just for another CSM candidate? Because that is what your vote in the CSM since its installation has been: a vote for a particular candidate, not one against all others.
Can you further provide any evidence that every member of Goonswarm gave his or her vote, including those of all available alt accounts, to The Mittani? Can you further prove that no Goon split his or her available votes or even voted for a different candidate than Mittani?

But I admit, you got us right there with the killratio argument. Given your apparent thorough investigation on the matter you must have found out that we really do care a very lot about kill:death ratios and ISK efficiencies. Breaks my heart... Cry

One question though: If "Burn Jita" was, as you claimed, such a complete failure, then why do you feel so bothered?

Finally: Did it occur to you, especially in light of the apparent support of CCP to such player-driven events, that this is how the developers want their game/sandbox to work while you delusionally cling to a concept of Eve that has never been there in the first place? This is not World of WarCraft.

EDIT: I'd feel pissed about EVE, too, had I spent time with DEMON HUNTERS and was getting slaughtered in Delve as part of the refugees in KRYSISdot. However, dear Desimus Maximus, it's not our fault that you are bad at picking competent spaceship comrades.
By the way, what's an UberNova? Does it transform more or less energy than a Big Bang or a potential Big Rip? Is one White Giant sufficient or does it require two superheavy neutron stars to collide? I'm very intrigued, especialyl about the potential new elements such an "UberNova" could produce.
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#216 - 2012-05-08 11:41:27 UTC
Where's the graph showing the gargantuan number of newbships/dessies the goons were undocking in while still GCC'd just to inflate the stats? Along with all the pods that were being self destructed?

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...

Sylthi
Coreward Pan-Galactic
#217 - 2012-05-08 17:14:24 UTC
Congratulations, CCP, on making a game so enthralling that the most stimulating thing that big null-sec alliances have to do with their time is come into high sec and shoot at defenseless targets.

No, I am not mad. I didn't loose anything; I don't even know anyone who did.

I am only putting this here in a last effort to get the Devs to wake up and realize that their game isn't nearly as awesome as they seem to think it is, before it fails.

CCP: You REALLY need to give the players more to do in the game! The fact that you think this kind of "player driven event" is a "good thing" is really quite pathetic.

When the major pew-pews have nothing better to do than come in and start attacking the back-bone of your "player-driven economy" just for kicks-and-grins.... yeah, that isn't a "good" thing.... That's a "bad" thing; and very much a sign of a game in decline.

Just my .2 isk put here since it seemed the self-important devs were paying so much attention to this thread.

Go ahead, flame away trolls, won't read it anyway.....

Peace.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#218 - 2012-05-09 20:26:06 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Funny how the "CCP serves Goons" conspiracy theorists remain totally unimpressed by CCP banning Mittani and taking away his seat on the CSM.

But then again, that is the basic trait of conspiracy loons: Ignore all the contradicting evidence and only see what supports what you want to believe.


permanent ban? or slap on the wrist for a guy that doesn't have to manage his empire from ingame ?

oh wait, implying favoritism is against the EULA and thus bannable , permanently bannable.

thats why you get so many people angry about it.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#219 - 2012-05-10 03:50:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
So, next year, I expect to only get a 30 day ban for running a slide show at fan fest urging people to drive someone to suicide and then realizing I might be charged and arrested, make up a excuse about being drunk.

BTW: I have to ask: is stating it rather then implying it a bannable offense?

Because how would we report it if they were? Let's say I had a GM on tape talking about how he helps, say, BoB? I'd prefer to take it to CCP rather than have to anonymously send it to a gaming news site to keep my account. I'm sure CCP would prefer that too.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#220 - 2012-05-10 04:04:31 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Let's all be honest for a sec. The only way it could have been a bigger embarassment for all of us, not just CCP or Goonswarm, was if he'd have followed it up by bending a GM over the table and raped them while they begged him to forgive them for having such a loose ass.

CCP banned him, as they should. But they made it a 30 day ban and then threw him a welcome back party because he threatened to cry if they didn't.

So, CCP, let me ask, next year at fanfest, when I get up and present a slideshow urging people to drive someone to suicide, will I just get a 30 day ban?

I think not.



Since the TOS and EULA only apply to in game actions, any sort of ban was a stretch for CCP to impose, whatever tortured logic they used to make EvETV an "in game channel" or whatever. If they had tried for a permanent ban, there would have been an outcry from people who realize that EvE and Real Life are separate things. In addition, the permaban would have called attention to CCP's own culpability in allowing an event that has historically been drunken and borderline inappropriate (a fact that they took into account when they cleared all the slides) to be aired without oversight when it came to the unscripted Q&A session.

Was the Mittani acting like a prick? Of course. He said so himself.
Did CCP screw up in allowing the Alliance panel to air in a way that may have hurt their reputation/marketing? Massively.

Has the Mittani owned his actions and apologized? Yup.
Has CCP owned their screwup and indicated that they'll fix it? Nope.


Besides that, it was a bad joke, made by a drunken idiot. Know what drunk people do? They crack inappropriate jokes.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon