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Delete requirement for team speak crap!

Author
Vas Vadum
Draconian Empire
#1 - 2012-05-01 14:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Vas Vadum
Some of us can't use voice communication systems for whatever varies reasons. So CCP forcing everyone out into null is pointless and ruins the game for people who can't do the requirements of using team speak servers.

I realized that you can't join any null sec alliance without the requirement of having teamspeak. Some people just can't so i'm proposing CCP add alliance based shortcut keys, user configurable starting out all non-bound.

Lets say I set the help me key to Ctrl H. Now if I press Ctrl H, I want it to either
  • Show a notification in alliance chat saying "Vas Vadum requested help in system (linked+name) at [evetime]."
  • Show a notification in current chat saying "Vas Vadum requested help in system (linked+name) at [evetime]."
  • Show a damage like notification saying "Vas Vadum requested help in system (name)"
  • Show up in a list of recent quick key calls with "Vas Vadum requested help in system (linked+name) at [evetime]."

  • Reason I placed that one last, is I wanted to suggest a new piece of UI that would hold these messages. Like a fleet log but for just these alliance calls.

    Calls can consist of the following warnings:

    1. %player% needs help in %system+link%, %evetime%
    2. %player% spotted a hostile in %system+link%, %evetime%
    3. %player% spotted a questionable target in %system+link%, %evetime%
    4. %player% requests mining assistance in %system+link%, %evetime%
    5. %player% suggests everyone safeup in %system+link%, %evetime%
    6. %player% suggests everyone safeup in %reigon+link%, %evetime%
    7. %player% sent tactical data about selected item to tactical info pane.


    7. This will send information and links about the person you have clicked or locked target with. So if you select a player who just jumped in and hit the hotkey for sending this data, it will display text in the tactical info pane about the person like his name, his ship, the system he was spotted in and the nearest location (aka moon and such).

    I'll add more to the list by editing when I get more ideas.

    Examples for each:

    1. Vas Vadum needs help in PVH8-0, 14:38
    2. Vas Vadum spotted a hostile in PVH8-0, 14:38
    3. Vas Vadum spotted a questionable target in PVH8-0, 14:38
    4. Vas Vadum requests mining assistance in PVH8-0, 14:38
    5. Vas Vadum suggests everyone safeup in PVH8-0, 14:38
    6. Vas Vadum suggests everyone safeup in Syndicate, 14:38
    7. Vas Vadum sent tactical data about selected item to tactical info pane.


    I'll update the examples too in every edit.

    5/2/12 @ 11:30AM EVE Time.
    PLEASE NOTE that this also provides tactical links to help players in the alliance set a course faster and allows for the entire alliance to see a warning message or an alert message without needing to be on voice coms. This also takes 100 to 300 bytes of bandwidth rather than 400KB to 2MB of bandwidth per voice command. Some people just can't ever get "better internet" to lose their data limits, and I was back-stabbed by people who don't give a crap about others. If you are on a data limit they laugh at you and **** you with rusty dull swords. It's why I proposed this idea, so CCP can help those out who have data limits and voice limitations.

    NEW, 5/3/12 @ 1:30AM EVE Time.
    Also have an opt in process for everyone to check mark. If they opt out of the voice, they will not hear voice comands to 'distress calls' / 'tactical calls'. If they have tactical calls off, they will not hear voice or see text.
    If this is implimented, it should be given a 10 to 15 second delay between each tactical call.
    I think I will name this "tactical calls" now.

    ALSO PLEASE NOTE:
    This can help mute people warn their alliance of something, or deaf people see warnings visually.
    Thorasine
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #2 - 2012-05-01 14:42:10 UTC
    Vas Vadum wrote:
    Some of us can't use voice communication systems for whatever varies reasons. So CCP forcing everyone out into null is pointless and ruins the game for people who can't do the requirements of using team speak servers.

    I realized that you can't join any null sec alliance without the requirement of having teamspeak. Some people just can't so i'm proposing CCP add alliance based shortcut keys, user configurable starting out all non-bound.

    Lets say I set the help me key to Ctrl H. Now if I press Ctrl H, I want it to either
  • Show a notification in alliance chat saying "Vas Vadum requested help in system (linked+name) at [evetime]."
  • Show a notification in current chat saying "Vas Vadum requested help in system (linked+name) at [evetime]."
  • Show a damage like notification saying "Vas Vadum requested help in system (name)"
  • Show up in a list of recent quick key calls with "Vas Vadum requested help in system (linked+name) at [evetime]."

  • Reason I placed that one last, is I wanted to suggest a new piece of UI that would hold these messages. Like a fleet log but for just these alliance calls.

    Calls can consist of the following warnings:

    1. %player% needs help in %system+link%, %evetime%
    2. %player% spotted a hostile in %system+link%, %evetime%
    3. %player% spotted a questionable target in %system+link%, %evetime%
    4. %player% requests mining assistance in %system+link%, %evetime%
    5. %player% suggests everyone safeup in %system+link%, %evetime%
    6. %player% suggests everyone safeup in %reigon+link%, %evetime%


    I'll add more to the list by editing when I get more ideas.

    Examples for each:

    1. Vas Vadum needs help in PVH8-0, 14:38
    2. Vas Vadum spotted a hostile in PVH8-0, 14:38
    3. Vas Vadum spotted a questionable target in PVH8-0, 14:38
    4. Vas Vadum requests mining assistance in PVH8-0, 14:38
    5. Vas Vadum suggests everyone safeup in PVH8-0, 14:38
    6. Vas Vadum suggests everyone safeup in Syndicate, 14:38


    I'll update the examples too in every edit.


    Regardless of this....

    People in null want you on teamspeak so they can hear you speak to you because not everyone is watching chat logs when engaged in a 1000 man fight.

    Majority usually have chats minimized
    and have fleet window open
    RavenTesio
    Liandri Corporation
    #3 - 2012-05-01 14:46:47 UTC
    Well technically speaking TeamSpeak is the choice of whoever you're flying with, EVE Voice (built-in to the game) uses Vivox.
    The only problem I can see using voice comms would be that you happen to be deaf, which if so I believe that Mumble and C3 (external Vivox) do allow for Speech-to-Text ... so you can see what people are saying.

    If you aren't deaf, the reason for voice comms is because it is quicker to talk to people for fleet fights, than type.
    There isnt' anything stopping you from simply listening in and responding in text.

    Hell that's how I prefer most of my Fleets to be run. Only the FC, WC and SCs talk with scouts on seperate comms only they can hear; everyone else has to short-hand via text. It is one of the only real ways to maintain control as too many people will shout and scream about the most stupid things that often you already know.

    If no one says anything you assume everyone knows what is going on, it is up to the pilots to simply listen and respond to what is going on. I would agree the broadcast system could do with some expansion to allow for better support for deaf gamers though.
    Vas Vadum
    Draconian Empire
    #4 - 2012-05-01 14:54:38 UTC
    Well I also had ideas of eve suppling premade voice files for each of the hotkeys. I need time to cool off and think more on the idea though so give me some time folks.
    Nikk Narrel
    Moonlit Bonsai
    #5 - 2012-05-01 15:18:29 UTC
    Heck, I would be happy if people chose to use the voice coms built into the game. I would expect at least a graphics cue in the fleet chat who was talking then.

    I have a hearing problem, (background noise blocks out foreground noise and voices), so using external voice coms is iffy at best, since I have to often focus too much trying to figure out WHO is talking, let alone what they might be saying.
    (If they have a strong accent, just forget it...)

    shrug
    Velicitia
    XS Tech
    #6 - 2012-05-01 15:33:58 UTC
    Nikk Narrel wrote:
    Heck, I would be happy if people chose to use the voice coms built into the game. I would expect at least a graphics cue in the fleet chat who was talking then.

    I have a hearing problem, (background noise blocks out foreground noise and voices), so using external voice coms is iffy at best, since I have to often focus too much trying to figure out WHO is talking, let alone what they might be saying.
    (If they have a strong accent, just forget it...)

    shrug


    Eve Voice does have a GFX cue (if you're in the right chat room -- e.g. fleet or corp).

    As for "who" with external programmes -- the DirectX overlay in TS/Mumble/Vent is pretty nice (shows the list of people in your 'room', and highlights the speaker)...
    As for the hearing... have you tried noise cancelling headphones? Then again, they're a bit expensive for just a game...

    One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

    Nikk Narrel
    Moonlit Bonsai
    #7 - 2012-05-01 15:58:32 UTC
    Velicitia wrote:
    Nikk Narrel wrote:
    Heck, I would be happy if people chose to use the voice coms built into the game. I would expect at least a graphics cue in the fleet chat who was talking then.

    I have a hearing problem, (background noise blocks out foreground noise and voices), so using external voice coms is iffy at best, since I have to often focus too much trying to figure out WHO is talking, let alone what they might be saying.
    (If they have a strong accent, just forget it...)

    shrug


    Eve Voice does have a GFX cue (if you're in the right chat room -- e.g. fleet or corp).

    As for "who" with external programmes -- the DirectX overlay in TS/Mumble/Vent is pretty nice (shows the list of people in your 'room', and highlights the speaker)...
    As for the hearing... have you tried noise cancelling headphones? Then again, they're a bit expensive for just a game...

    I bought a pair of fancy soundblaster headphones just for this, they are pretty effective in canceling, although I am not sure they do it on purpose.
    Big problem with using em, is that I tune out my family. Not always a good idea, so I can only use them on rare occasions, lol.
    (Short person needs to be watched often)

    On another note, I used to have an overlay, does anyone have a link for me to get the current one for TS? my old one doesn't seem to work anymore...
    mxzf
    Shovel Bros
    #8 - 2012-05-01 16:34:17 UTC
    @OP, all of those things are already in the game in the form of fleet broadcasts (or atleast close enough, the specific formatting might be different). And most people that aren't in a fleet typically post in the intel channel when they're in trouble (and if you're in so much trouble that you can't type a quick message, no one can get to you in time anyways).

    And the VoIP requirements for alliances aren't CCP's fault, that's players deciding to use them. CCP can't do anything at all about that.
    Velicitia
    XS Tech
    #9 - 2012-05-01 16:35:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
    @ Nikk --> for the plugin:

    1. open TS3, go to "plugins" (might be "settings -> plugins")
    2. turn on the "DirectX Overlay".

    It'll take a little fiddling to get the overlay into a "good" spot, but that's about 20-30 minutes of work, all told.

    One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

    Vas Vadum
    Draconian Empire
    #10 - 2012-05-02 11:24:49 UTC
    mxzf wrote:
    @OP, all of those things are already in the game in the form of fleet broadcasts (or atleast close enough, the specific formatting might be different). And most people that aren't in a fleet typically post in the intel channel when they're in trouble (and if you're in so much trouble that you can't type a quick message, no one can get to you in time anyways).

    And the VoIP requirements for alliances aren't CCP's fault, that's players deciding to use them. CCP can't do anything at all about that.


    Sometimes you can get out but a quick voice command that transmits to the whole alliance, even those without teamspeak would be nice. I mean who wants to join an alliance chat with an alliance who has like 500 members. The goons have like 10000 members, can you imagine how noisy their channel must be? This would probably benefit the goons too. Quick key to alert with a visual and audio warning to alert that there was an enemy spotted in your territory that uses no bandwidth and requires no voice com system while providing tactical links to help set courses and such. Maybe I should add this to title thread.

    Don't forget, some people are just lazy as hell and don't want to type or they do stupid things like phone text type.
    Luba Cibre
    Global Song Setup
    #11 - 2012-05-02 12:38:34 UTC
    Vas Vadum wrote:
    The goons have like 10000 members, can you imagine how noisy their channel must be?

    It's not noisy at all.

    1) Not everyone is always on mumble.
    2) Seperate Channels divide the mass.
    3) People know when to shut up.

    "Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 

    Vas Vadum
    Draconian Empire
    #12 - 2012-05-02 19:34:22 UTC
    Luba Cibre wrote:
    Vas Vadum wrote:
    The goons have like 10000 members, can you imagine how noisy their channel must be?

    It's not noisy at all.

    1) Not everyone is always on mumble.
    2) Seperate Channels divide the mass.
    3) People know when to shut up.


    Yes, but don't you agree that an alliance notification might be helpful? Or even Corporation notifications, on screen information and voice added to notify someone that %player% says such and such? So far no one's noticed the fact that this would greatly help deaf and mute people, and people with crap net or low data limits.

    Most people in eve only think about themselves so it's hard to get any ideas in. It's why it's hard to get ideas in as if one guy doesn't like it for himself, it must be a bad idea. Sure my ideas usually benefit me in some way, but I also plan for everyone else it will help as well. So I hope to see some more users join the topic that can help support this or show good reason why no one should have this ability.
    Danika Princip
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #13 - 2012-05-02 21:02:29 UTC
    Isn't this called an intel channel? You know, the things people already have and use all the time?
    Vas Vadum
    Draconian Empire
    #14 - 2012-05-03 00:08:34 UTC
    Can you click Ctrl Alt G and say "Danika Princip spotted an enemy in %systemlink* at ##:##" and have a sound file play for everyone in alliance that opted in for hearing these messages that says "Alert, enemy spotted by alliance member" without you having to use a voice chat program or type anything else after that? If you can please let us know so CCP can ban you for hacking. :P
    Danika Princip
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #15 - 2012-05-03 00:23:41 UTC
    Vas Vadum wrote:
    Can you click Ctrl Alt G and say "Danika Princip spotted an enemy in %systemlink* at ##:##" and have a sound file play for everyone in alliance that opted in for hearing these messages that says "Alert, enemy spotted by alliance member" without you having to use a voice chat program or type anything else after that? If you can please let us know so CCP can ban you for hacking. :P



    No, but why would I want to? I can click and drag two things and press enter to tell a coalition without annoying anyone.
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #16 - 2012-05-03 00:33:08 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
    EDIT: Nevermind, misread.

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)

    cornholio508
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #17 - 2012-05-03 00:39:35 UTC
    OP i get where you are coming from . Yes it would be nice to have this in place . However you are on about other people in game actually heading it . If you are with the fleet then its ok . However you do have other problems with it . People would eventually just abuse it .

    Calling for help when you are several jumps away from the main body of a fleet is going to cause problems . That is if your even in the fleet . Chances are if you get caught by someone the fleet wont make it b4 you go pop . It then just turns into another useless feature where people will start spamming the buttons to let you know you wont be getting help .

    Team speak is not a requirement for anyone . Neither is eve voice . I have been in plenty of fleets that used the fleet text chat in game along with the fleet broadcast system . This worked just as well . We dont need a new feature that adds nothing to the game bar the potential for been another spam feature .
    Vas Vadum
    Draconian Empire
    #18 - 2012-05-03 01:07:18 UTC
    cornholio508 wrote:
    OP i get where you are coming from . Yes it would be nice to have this in place . However you are on about other people in game actually heading it . If you are with the fleet then its ok . However you do have other problems with it . People would eventually just abuse it .

    Calling for help when you are several jumps away from the main body of a fleet is going to cause problems . That is if your even in the fleet . Chances are if you get caught by someone the fleet wont make it b4 you go pop . It then just turns into another useless feature where people will start spamming the buttons to let you know you wont be getting help .

    Team speak is not a requirement for anyone . Neither is eve voice . I have been in plenty of fleets that used the fleet text chat in game along with the fleet broadcast system . This worked just as well . We dont need a new feature that adds nothing to the game bar the potential for been another spam feature .

    That's where the opt in button arrives. If you want to receive notifications you check mark the option, if not then you don't receive notifications. If so, all this does is add a 50 meg or so update the next time you update your game and it will never bother you ever again.

    Also, this spam thing can easily be limited via delaying your next allowed notification to 10 seconds or 30 seconds. But if someone in the alliance spams, the corp leader can just kick that person out as fair punishment. Spam is already possible with chat, what makes this different.

    Danika Princip wrote:
    No, but why would I want to? I can click and drag two things and press enter to tell a coalition without annoying anyone.

    Perfect example of people who only care about themselves and no one else. :P I bet you could care less if a deaf mute played the game, was one system over and in range of being saved and could click this button to save his life.

    P.S. to all who read the topic, I'm adding a new part to the main post right now.
    Danika Princip
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #19 - 2012-05-03 10:08:14 UTC
    Vas Vadum wrote:


    Danika Princip wrote:
    No, but why would I want to? I can click and drag two things and press enter to tell a coalition without annoying anyone.

    Perfect example of people who only care about themselves and no one else. :P I bet you could care less if a deaf mute played the game, was one system over and in range of being saved and could click this button to save his life.




    No, actually I couldn't care less.

    An automated 'help I'm tackled in the belt' gives an FC the location of some guys, but that's it. No word on cynos, no word on what they're in, who they are, how many, if his deaf buddy is going to survive long enough to make warping anything back even remotley worthwhile, nor any other useful intel the guy might want.

    Incidentally, a lot of that can be given with a couple of click and drags and a few typed words.


    Also, what do you suppose the deaf-mute player count really is?
    Vas Vadum
    Draconian Empire
    #20 - 2012-05-03 12:01:07 UTC
    Danika Princip wrote:

    No, actually I couldn't care less.

    An automated 'help I'm tackled in the belt' gives an FC the location of some guys, but that's it. No word on cynos, no word on what they're in, who they are, how many, if his deaf buddy is going to survive long enough to make warping anything back even remotley worthwhile, nor any other useful intel the guy might want.

    Incidentally, a lot of that can be given with a couple of click and drags and a few typed words.


    Also, what do you suppose the deaf-mute player count really is?


    Did you see the new 7th tactical data item on the list?
    It would still be up to the player to type certain things too yes, but it would be less and it would get the attention of anyone not reading the required chat. You are also still thinking of null sec only. What if this is in low sec instead? Or high sec? No cyno in high sec. Could be in high sec during a war. Sometimes there's a fleet out on the hunt and all you have to do is click "spotted an enemy" button and the fleet will know exactly where to go without you typing squat.

    This is to help eliminate the absolute requirement of teamspeak with all these alliances. I'm sick of every alliance I join telling me I have to have team speak when I CAN NOT USE IT. 95% of the game practically requires voice coms of some sort, so much so it's getting absolutely annoying.

    My idea is a basis that CCP and OTHER people can add on to to make it more worth adding in. None of you seem to be adding input, you all just want to shoot down the idea because YOUR way is easier TO YOU only. Sure. I can probably type in all the required information in a few seconds. But that doesn't stop me from being kicked out of any alliance that has some silly requirement for teamspeak. No one in this game even USES the fleet buttons for target this guy or need shield or warp to this gate. They just all say what to do on teamspeak. This is why no one noticed when I click the "warp to gate" button like 10 times and I face-palm because no one saw it. This is why I also face-palm when no one saw that I clicked "target this guy" and they have to ask who to target. It absolutely drives me insane that voice coms are the dominant requirement on EVE when we can't all use them.

    This is the reason I am stuck in high sec space, because you people and your voice com requirement. I'm not a carebear, I don't like hiding in high sec. I hate high sec. But I can't go out into null till someone I trust out there will accept me without forcing me to use voice coms. CCP sits here killing the game, trying to force people into null and some of us can't go because of the voice com requirement.

    Where is CCP when you need them, they hardly ever reply to these topics. :/ I got nice input from one once on one of my topics and that was it.