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Inferno And Datacores

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Kariva
Doomheim
#101 - 2012-05-02 12:36:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Kariva
CCP Soundwave wrote:
....
Mining with guns was bad because it detracted from real mining. This is bad because it detracts from......what exactly?

We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec. This gives us a very cool venue for FW to influence the rest of the universe instead of being a closed-loop system.



If EVE is sandbox in with anyone can do what ever they want . Why are you constantly nerfing professions that don't need co-operation....?
When will you MOVE the ganking to Low and null sec ? it's to f.. rewarding comparing to risk...
Some People don't wont to PVP is that so HARD to understand CCP....???
Everything that is moved from high sec to low sec is dying. How many people do lvl 5 now ? ded 4/10 ? 2% -5% o former numbers. Can we get the numbers...???
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#102 - 2012-05-02 12:38:48 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Max Teranous wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're not removing research agents or the ability to farm datacores from them. What we're going to do is slow down the rate of datacores you accumulate and put a small pricetag on them.

Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.

We should have a devblog out later this month with the exact details.


Sup.

Dynamic pricing in LP stores? How are you going to do that then? As currently the LP store rewards are horribly set and are all over the place. Is this new dynamic function going to be for Datacores only or all LP store items?

Max Cool


We have a pretty cool system, which Ytterbium will outline in a devblog :)

All I can say is that if you're good at killing things, you'll benefit.



Dynamic LP store prices would be one of the best possible economic changes you could make. It's one of those boring-sounding, undramatic changes that would have a very large affect.

(Especially if you also combined it with a look at the LP store to promote more specialisation - each major corp within a faction should have unique specialities)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-05-02 12:39:08 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
Soundwave, just move level 4 missions and incursions to low sec, and you would have balanced the game


Why do people still think this would work? Most people wouldn't start running level 4 missions and incursions in low sec if they aren't available anymore, they'll just go and do level 3 missions or leave the game. This won't be beneficial whatsoever.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Max Teranous
Reign of Steel
Brave Collective
#104 - 2012-05-02 12:45:47 UTC
Kariva wrote:
If EVE is sandbox in with anyone can do what ever they want . Why are you constantly nerfing professions that don't need co-operation....?
When will you MOVE the ganking to Low and null sec ? it's to f.. rewarding comparing to risk...
Some People don't wont to PVP is that so HARD to understand CCP....???
Everything that is moved from high sec to low sec is dying. How many people do lvl 5 now ? ded 4/10 ? 2% -5% o former numbers. Can we get the numbers...???


Lets be honest with ourselves, grinding some standing, training a few skills then forevermore grabbing passively generated datacores is not a "profession". It's something you setup on a few chars if you can be bothered then grab a bit of an isk influx every 6 months.

Max Cool
Cys Root
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2012-05-02 12:52:49 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
slow down the rate of datacores you accumulate and put a small pricetag on them.

Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.
Wow...thanks for completely screwing over those that put in the time and effort to train the skills and grind the standings...not only are you nerfing our agents but now any dumbass in a rifter has their own datacore faucet...a couple months of this and datacores will be worthless to farm...

WTS 2 now useless research alts...
Lifelongnoob
State War Academy
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-05-02 12:57:19 UTC
nerfing datacore farming would kill t2 production pretty much. most players farm them then cash in every so often but if we will need FW LP to get them then the supply will never be able to keep up with demand and t2 production costs will sky rocket.

end result will be alot of players only using t1 ships for pvp and it will drive away more players from the game if they cant afford decent t2 ships because of high productions costs associated with Tech, and if this goes ahead invention + construction costs.
Kariva
Doomheim
#107 - 2012-05-02 13:06:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kariva
Max Teranous wrote:
Kariva wrote:
If EVE is sandbox in with anyone can do what ever they want . Why are you constantly nerfing professions that don't need co-operation....?
When will you MOVE the ganking to Low and null sec ? it's to f.. rewarding comparing to risk...
Some People don't wont to PVP is that so HARD to understand CCP....???
Everything that is moved from high sec to low sec is dying. How many people do lvl 5 now ? ded 4/10 ? 2% -5% o former numbers. Can we get the numbers...???


Lets be honest with ourselves, grinding some standing, training a few skills then forevermore grabbing passively generated datacores is not a "profession". It's something you setup on a few chars if you can be bothered then grab a bit of an isk influx every 6 months.

Max Cool



training alt to tier3 bc + scaning some ships + press F1 is also a "profession"...... Even bigger isk influx
Seting up printing money moon .....
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#108 - 2012-05-02 13:48:18 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Max Teranous wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're not removing research agents or the ability to farm datacores from them. What we're going to do is slow down the rate of datacores you accumulate and put a small pricetag on them.

Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.

We should have a devblog out later this month with the exact details.


Sup.

Dynamic pricing in LP stores? How are you going to do that then? As currently the LP store rewards are horribly set and are all over the place. Is this new dynamic function going to be for Datacores only or all LP store items?

Max Cool


We have a pretty cool system, which Ytterbium will outline in a devblog :)

All I can say is that if you're good at killing things, you'll benefit.



Dynamic LP store prices would be one of the best possible economic changes you could make. It's one of those boring-sounding, undramatic changes that would have a very large affect.

(Especially if you also combined it with a look at the LP store to promote more specialisation - each major corp within a faction should have unique specialities)


This is basically exactly it, yes.
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#109 - 2012-05-02 14:03:35 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:

Mining with guns was bad because it detracted from real mining. This is bad because it detracts from......what exactly?


It detracts from the standing benefits for mission runners.

CCP Soundwave wrote:

We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec.


T2 production is already heavily influenced by zeo-sec, they have exclusive control of supply.

CCP Soundwave wrote:

This gives us a very cool venue for FW to influence the rest of the universe instead of being a closed-loop system.


Where ISK farmers high on the FW priority list ?

CCP failing
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#110 - 2012-05-02 14:06:17 UTC
What does FW have to do with tech II research?
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#111 - 2012-05-02 14:25:10 UTC
Max Teranous wrote:

Lets be honest with ourselves, grinding some standing, training a few skills then forevermore grabbing passively generated datacores is not a "profession". It's something you setup on a few chars if you can be bothered then grab a bit of an isk influx every 6 months.

Max Cool


Ah, one of the daft ones.

ArrowFirst of all the training to be able to get datecores takes time and Isk.

ArrowSecond you have to work up your standings which takes time and if you get skills to increase the standing grind also Isk.

ArrowThird you have to get the agents that give out specific cores, which in most cases are 20+ jumps away from eachtether.

ArrowFourth the income on mothly base isn't the huge printingmachine people think. To make it somewhat interesting you need a full account of datecore alts. Which requires more time and Isk invested.

ArrowFifth you have to spend a lot of time flying around to gather the cores and if you want them to make reasonable income you have to haul them to a spot where they make more than the station you gather them at. Thus running risk of being ganked.

ArrowSixth To break even in time and Isk invested into a single datacore alt you need several months. If the alt is on main account because you only have 1 account then you're even further from making Isk because the time needed to fly around to pick up the cores is effectivly drawing you away from your regular Isk making profession.


If the only way CCP can buff certain area's by nerfing other area's to death then this isn't a sandbox but a stealth guided MMO where they covertly are attempting to turn everyone's noses in the same direction.
CCP has had some valuable and gamebreaking improvements to MMO's over the years, but the constant drive to get people to move to certain area's of the game makes them more and more in par with games like WoW and such.

It's not up to CCP which part of the "sandbox" is the "endgame" of EVE. Atleast not if it's supposed to be a sandbox game.
In a true sandbox they throw in the toys and let people play whatever they want and where ever they want without screwing one part of the sandbox in favour of another part.
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#112 - 2012-05-02 14:32:03 UTC
Kariva wrote:
If EVE is sandbox in with anyone can do what ever they want .
Let me help you here with your logic: If Eve is a sandbox in which anyone can do whatever they want, then the people trying to prevent you from doing whatever you want have to be able to do what they want too. Naturally the stronger one will win this conflict of interest.

Quote:
When will you MOVE the ganking to Low and null sec ? it's to f.. rewarding comparing to risk...
In low/null it's called PvP, (suicide) ganking by definition happens in hisec. And if it really were so rewarding why am I not getting ganked more often? And why does everyone else not get ganked more often? Hint: It's not too fracking rewarding.

Quote:
Some People don't wont to PVP is that so HARD to understand CCP....???
I generally tend to avoid it, but you really had this gb2wow coming.

Quote:
How many people do lvl 5 now ? ded 4/10 ?
Comparatively difficult "end-game" PvE content like incursion HQs, class 6 WHs and L5 missions will always only be done by a minority of people, don't see a problem there. DED 4/10s are in hisec, so I don't see how they could possibly be relevant.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#113 - 2012-05-02 14:41:37 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
Max Teranous wrote:

Lets be honest with ourselves, grinding some standing, training a few skills then forevermore grabbing passively generated datacores is not a "profession". It's something you setup on a few chars if you can be bothered then grab a bit of an isk influx every 6 months.

Max Cool


Lol Stuff


Don't be over dramatic. It's not a profession and certainly nothing worth preserving in it's current form. Currently it offers no gameplay and is just a passive ability to generate some pocket change, that you gain if you spend a little time on it. It has been nice, but I certainly won't be shedding any tears over these changes.
Cerulean Ice
Royal Amarr Reclamation
#114 - 2012-05-02 19:37:45 UTC
CCP, why are you moving "farming with guns" away from the drone regions and into FW? Isn't the whole point of FW to promote PVP, rather than botting? Seems like you just want to nerf industry, despite saying at fanfest that you're going to be promoting industry next expansion. What gives?

Cerulean Ice, Professor, E-UNI
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#115 - 2012-05-02 20:49:23 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Max Teranous wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're not removing research agents or the ability to farm datacores from them. What we're going to do is slow down the rate of datacores you accumulate and put a small pricetag on them.

Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.

We should have a devblog out later this month with the exact details.


Sup.

Dynamic pricing in LP stores? How are you going to do that then? As currently the LP store rewards are horribly set and are all over the place. Is this new dynamic function going to be for Datacores only or all LP store items?

Max Cool


We have a pretty cool system, which Ytterbium will outline in a devblog :)

All I can say is that if you're good at killing things, you'll benefit.



Dynamic LP store prices would be one of the best possible economic changes you could make. It's one of those boring-sounding, undramatic changes that would have a very large affect.

(Especially if you also combined it with a look at the LP store to promote more specialisation - each major corp within a faction should have unique specialities)


This is basically exactly it, yes.


So why did you go out of your way to homogenize LP stores and Corps in Factions for that matter? Show me a corp in Gall Fed I can't get a Navy Mega in. You plan to spend the next for years undoing all the things you spent the last 4 years doing? Great make work project but it isn't really doing anything for the game.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#116 - 2012-05-02 20:51:40 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:


Don't be over dramatic. It's not a profession and certainly nothing worth preserving in it's current form. Currently it offers no gameplay and is just a passive ability to generate some pocket change, that you gain if you spend a little time on it. It has been nice, but I certainly won't be shedding any tears over these changes.


As soon as you have to put time and Isk into it to even start with it and then also time to collect them all over the place I dare calling it a profession.
If you're so concerned about gameplay then let's have a look at PI. This isn't really a lot of interaction either. It's also just "pocketmoney" yet it does require some management from time to time. There is far less travel for planets you utelize since there are far more options in it than with datacore aquirement.

No it hasn't been nice and it's going to be even less nice than it already was.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2012-05-02 21:09:06 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Max Teranous wrote:

Dynamic pricing in LP stores? How are you going to do that then? As currently the LP store rewards are horribly set and are all over the place. Is this new dynamic function going to be for Datacores only or all LP store items?


We have a pretty cool system, which Ytterbium will outline in a devblog :)

All I can say is that if you're good at killing things, you'll benefit.



Dynamic LP store prices would be one of the best possible economic changes you could make. It's one of those boring-sounding, undramatic changes that would have a very large affect.

(Especially if you also combined it with a look at the LP store to promote more specialisation - each major corp within a faction should have unique specialities)


This is basically exactly it, yes.

Are dynamic LP costs intended to stay Faction Warfare LP related or something you hope to have affect other LP stores? If other LP stores do became involved in this mechanic would that tie itself back to FW?
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2012-05-02 21:32:33 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
CCP Soundwave wrote:


We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec. This gives us a very cool venue for FW to influence the rest of the universe instead of being a closed-loop system.


WTF?

How much more ISK control does null sec need?

Basically what I see here is just more favoritism being shown towards null sec by nerfing high sec once again.

Why don't you just hurry up and get rid of concord, turn high sec into low sec and turn low sec into SoV since this is what you and null sec Alliances want to do anyway.

This is supposed to be a fun game that allows players the option to do whatever they want where ever they want. It's supposed to be fun. Being dictated to and told how I'm supposed to play this game is not fun. These constant fail plans of yours trying to push players into low sec only drives more players from the game.

You're just pushing players closer and closer into selling off their characters, closing out their accounts and spending their hard earned real life money on some other game that's more fun to play.


EDIT: Since there's going to be a nerf to civilians regarding R&D, Data Cores, T2 invention, etc. I would like the option to have my invention and research skill points reimbursed so I can put them into EWAR, Leadership and Combat skills.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#119 - 2012-05-02 22:00:12 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:

We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec.


Your changes wont achieve the result you desire.

Production is done in high sec, because thats where the BUYERS are, its lower risk, and its more time efficient for producers due to scale. The changes your suggesting are only effecting the SUPPLY side of production, which is already controlled by low and zero-sec and it makes production less efficient.

Have you ran this idea passed the CSM ?
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#120 - 2012-05-02 22:11:32 UTC
CCP Soundwave can you answer this:
Arrow

1. Are people who have spent months training the now fairly useless R&D skills, going to be compensated with SP reallocation,

2. and are people like me, who have spent weeks grinding the now fairly useless lvl 4 R&D agents, going to get a chance to reallocate their standings?

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