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I'm sorry, what are you trying to say?

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Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#21 - 2012-04-30 16:29:40 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
I am not effected by this problem. (to my knowledge)
I did not benefit in this fix. (to my knowledge)
Someone is clearly begrudging here when they shouldn't be (it's your job or it isn't).
They're the ones bitching by phrasing it like that/

My statement still stands. They were nice enough to fix the issue, now you want them to tell the unsupported bitchers and moaners that it was fixed nicely?

Aphoxema G wrote:
As a developer, you need to get off your high-horse and stop thinking that makes you special somehow in this argument.

Point of reference. Also, I have dealt with this sort of argument in the past where I gave someone a raft of options and they eventually got pissed because that raft either didn't solve their problem or they were unwilling to use those options, the last of which was "Change your OS".

Aphoxema G wrote:
It's still a **** way to put "Here's the support we provided for you as requested."

It's not. It's reinforcement of the "We don't support this."

Aphoxema G wrote:
You're defending them committing bad PR. Very developer-minded of you.

If you don't like the product because of the bad PR, get a new one.

Aphoxema G wrote:
I love cookies.
I'm a developer too.

I can't tell you how happy I am for you.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#22 - 2012-04-30 16:31:11 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
I guess if you desperately need to ***** about something, this works as well as anything else.


I just can't help myself. When I have a keyboard an an audience I think very highly of myself for some reason.

Aruken Marr wrote:
You're missing the point. The problem is backseat developers telling people how to do their jobs and write up their patch notes. Take the statement for what it is. Don't get all uppity and bend the statement into something offensive i.e. take the pole from up your ass.


I'm just suggesting for devs to not make their company look bad by looking like it's such a problem for them to do something but yet finds it important to actually go on and do it.
Sycho Pathic
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-04-30 16:34:17 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
Anyone know which OS they are talking about?

"I hate OS's... There are like, to many of them..."



I'm assuming Linux via WINE.
Not sure what else they could have been referring to.
Par'Gellen
#24 - 2012-04-30 16:36:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Par'Gellen
Aphoxema G wrote:
I'm just suggesting for devs to not make their company look bad by looking like it's such a problem for them to do something but yet finds it important to actually go on and do it.

Hehe I don't think it's possible for CCP to make themselves look any worse to the rest of the gaming community. The general impression from most of the other boards I frequent are that they are kinda like the mentally imbalanced cousin that always shows up to family events but nobody really wants to sit next to. Don't get me wrong. I love them as much as they will let me but still I can see the other guys' point based on the way they treat their players and run their company in general. They smile and say nice things to you but when you get to close they throw their punch on you and kick you in the nuggets then run away laughing. Some would call it madness...

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#25 - 2012-04-30 16:38:41 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
My statement still stands. They were nice enough to fix the issue, now you want them to tell the unsupported bitchers and moaners that it was fixed nicely?

They weren't "nice", they were fixing a problem that was apparently there and didn't like having to do their job, apparently, and then saying "well, I didn't have to actually do that anyways". It's like someone telling me to be thankful for them not shooting me when they thought about it. Oh, yes, thank you for that.

Karl Hobb wrote:
Point of reference. Also, I have dealt with this sort of argument in the past where I gave someone a raft of options and they eventually got pissed because that raft either didn't solve their problem or they were unwilling to use those options, the last of which was "Change your OS".

It hasn't progressed to that point yet, that reference is outside of the scope of this discussion.

Karl Hobb wrote:
It's not. It's reinforcement of the "We don't support this."

Then they could have legitimately not fixed the problem and forgot all about it.

Karl Hobb wrote:
If you don't like the product because of the bad PR, get a new one.

I think I'll just ***** instead and try to get them to change the way they address the community that pays them money.

Karl Hobb wrote:
I can't tell you how happy I am for you.

You seemed to have found it important to tell me that you were a developer and that somehow qualified you to have an opinion that was against mine. I was showing you that being a true Scotsman won't win you any arguments.
Sycho Pathic
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-04-30 16:38:47 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:

I'm just suggesting for devs to not make their company look bad by looking like it's such a problem for them to do something but yet finds it important to actually go on and do it.


When you spend development resources fixing problems for an operating system used by a minority of customers - and one you don't even officially support - it most certainly *is* a problem. It's a waste of time and money.

I think it speaks rather well of CCP that they did it anyway.

The gentle reminder that the OS in question is not supported was just that - A gentle reminder.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#27 - 2012-04-30 16:39:58 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
Hehe I don't think it's possible for CCP to make themselves look any worse to the rest of the gaming community. The general impression from most of the other boards I frequent are that they are kinda like the mentally imbalanced cousin that always shows up to family events but nobody really wants to sit next to. Don't get me wrong. I love them as much as they will let me but still I can see the other guys' point based on the way they treat their players and run their company in general. They smile and say nice things to you but when you get to close they throw their punch on your and kick you in the nuggets then run away laughing. Some would call it madness...


Ohhh no, I think CCP does very well, and have unique problems to deal with. I'm not actually complaining about CCP as a whole, who I actually have a net adoration for, I'm complaining about this one person who took a stab at an anonymous group of people in public for some reason, apparently, and thought it was appropriate.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#28 - 2012-04-30 16:41:08 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
Anyone know which OS they are talking about?


It's probably safe to assume it's some flavor of Linux, as support for it was officially dropped some years back.

Honestly, Aphox, I see where you're coming from but I think you're getting a little too bent out of shape about it. If CCP says they're not going to support a given OS, they're not under any obligation to do so.

Was it necessary to be slightly smartass in the patchnotes about this change in particular? Probably not, but it caught people's attention, apparently, and serves as a reminder that if you're not playing on an officially-supported OS, you're going to run into issues that will probably go overlooked or outright ignored in favor of issues on clients running on the OSes that are supported.

Was it true to CCP's tradition of being smartasses in their patchnotes? Yes. (Was it actually funny? I'll admit I got a good laugh out of it this morning, but my sense of humor can be a little twisted at times.)

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Par'Gellen
#29 - 2012-04-30 16:42:42 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
Ohhh no, I think CCP does very well, and have unique problems to deal with. I'm not actually complaining about CCP as a whole, who I actually have a net adoration for, I'm complaining about this one person who took a stab at an anonymous group of people in public for some reason, apparently, and thought it was appropriate.

I understand. I was just saying that even if it were suddenly on the 6 o'clock news that they ate newborn puppies before each coding session nobody that knows them would really be that surprised.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#30 - 2012-04-30 16:42:48 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
They weren't "nice", they were fixing a problem that was apparently there and didn't like having to do their job, apparently, and then saying "well, I didn't have to actually do that anyways". It's like someone telling me to be thankful for them not shooting me when they thought about it. Oh, yes, thank you for that.

They most certainly were being nice because the issue was unsupported.

Aphoxema G wrote:
Then they could have legitimately not fixed the problem and forgot all about it.

But they did, and then told the bitchers and moaners that they had done so, and that it was still unsupported.

Aphoxema G wrote:
I think I'll just ***** instead and try to get them to change the way they address the community that pays them money.

lol. Let me know how that goes.

Aphoxema G wrote:
You seemed to have found it important to tell me that you were a developer and that somehow qualified you to have an opinion that was against mine. I was showing you that being a true Scotsman won't win you any arguments.

Roll

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#31 - 2012-04-30 16:43:03 UTC
Sycho Pathic wrote:
When you spend development resources fixing problems for an operating system used by a minority of customers - and one you don't even officially support - it most certainly *is* a problem. It's a waste of time and money.

I think it speaks rather well of CCP that they did it anyway.


It's an admission that they're wasting resources, something they already get (not entirely legitimately) slammed for anyways. You literally just said this. You literally just said it's a problem that they wasted time and money, and then you literally said it makes them look good.

Sycho Pathic wrote:
The gentle reminder that the OS in question is not supported was just that - A gentle reminder.


If it's an issue then they should not have fixed the problem and waited for the people using the oddball OS to demand proper support.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#32 - 2012-04-30 16:46:47 UTC
What i get from that, is some guy was running EVE on Windows '95, and was encountering problems.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#33 - 2012-04-30 16:47:03 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
They most certainly were being nice because the issue was unsupported.

They were either being wasteful or they were doing their jobs. By phrasing the patch note the way they did, they admitted to neither.

Karl Hobb wrote:
But they did, and then told the bitchers and moaners that they had done so, and that it was still unsupported.

So who deserves the cookie, now?

Karl Hobb wrote:
lol. Let me know how that goes.

The CSM exists for a reason.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#34 - 2012-04-30 16:48:54 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Honestly, Aphox, I see where you're coming from but I think you're getting a little too bent out of shape about it. If CCP says they're not going to support a given OS, they're not under any obligation to do so.

Was it necessary to be slightly smartass in the patchnotes about this change in particular? Probably not, but it caught people's attention, apparently, and serves as a reminder that if you're not playing on an officially-supported OS, you're going to run into issues that will probably go overlooked or outright ignored in favor of issues on clients running on the OSes that are supported.

Was it true to CCP's tradition of being smartasses in their patchnotes? Yes. (Was it actually funny? I'll admit I got a good laugh out of it this morning, but my sense of humor can be a little twisted at times.)


I love smartasses, I don't like a developer brushing their finger at the poor little linux community (I'm assuming) publicly. It's saying both "You don't matter" and "You matter enough".
ISD Grossvogel
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#35 - 2012-04-30 17:00:03 UTC
If you want to say "thank you" to CCP Snortax and the team, you're welcome to leave a post here; otherwise, thread locked for nitpicking... er, ranting.

ISD Grossvogel (ISD Гроссфогель) Captain, Community Communication Liaisons (CCL) Волонтёр группы по взаимодействию с игроками Interstellar Services Department
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