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Player Founded NPC Corporations
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Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-04-24 18:42:02 UTC
    Each of these NPC corporations have to come from somewhere I'd love to see the Capsuleers able to take a more active role in defining the cosmos while at the same time allowing us to help the story of New Eden as it grows.

  • Give player corporations with appropriate standings & total active member count the ability to found an NPC Corporation within a given faction -- i.e. an offer to join the faction's "allaince" and establish their own station.

  • Expand the ability to place outposts to these corporations so they can help build high-sec space & develop new areas of commerce and growth.

  • Give these corporations the ability to "hire" NPC agents from other NPC corporations to come work for them after they've established their own station. Relocating the agent from one station & corporation to another. 
Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2012-04-24 18:52:45 UTC
Sooooo... basically you want all the perks of a corp without the risk of being war decked?

I'm going to have to say... no.

How did you Veterans start?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-04-24 19:10:04 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Sooooo... basically you want all the perks of a corp without the risk of being war decked?

I'm going to have to say... no.


No no, he wants all the perks of holding sov without being wardecced.

No.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#4 - 2012-04-24 19:23:46 UTC
Well this might be more "balanced" approach.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97729&find=unread

- Cropped -

Dear MD.

I just finished listening to Soundwaves interview on TenTonHammer.

This made me ponder if there was not some rather great reasons to consider his idea for micro corporations. I would call these Partnerships, as I am prone to try and use RL inspired concepts. Basically inspired by something like this Link

So what I would expect was that Partnerships would be doing much of the same things that corps do now, with the difference that they would ofc not have shares. Roles would instead be used for voting rights and similar features.

No Shares. (No dividends, no risk of hostile takeovers)

Only npc Faction (Alliance) affiliation memebership. (Can NOT be war decked)

No excemption from npc pricing.

Only access to npc building and research slots, these would get changed to use a dynamic pricing model based on how much they are used. Thus making location more expensive. Same with office space. There should be quite a lot more office and building slots available, in practive infinite, but the price change impact should motivate people to spread out or shift business type.

The other type would ofc be REAL Corporation.

These would function mostly like they do already, but with added features.

Shares tradable on scc markets. (Dividends payouts, hostile takeovers, voting, etc)

player to player facility renting. Research slots and Building slots from POS.

Alliance affiliation granting excemption from docking fees and hangar fees.
Ideally these fees would be paid, with a huge reduction by the Alliance or as corp bills.

Access to player to player billing system.
Corp Taxation. With option for monthly wealth isk taxation. (Yes work around by hiding isk would be expected.)
Statements of Tax from each member would be generated to corp and or alliance accountant. Thus making tax avoiding a reason for kicking members. Taxation should be possible to set for corp to members and from alliance to corps.
Same with Billings.

Just a few of my thoughts on the topics..

- End -
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#5 - 2012-04-24 19:40:30 UTC
Can not be war dec'd? No.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-04-24 19:51:55 UTC
ban npc corps
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#7 - 2012-04-24 20:41:08 UTC
Kinda funny that so many people dont want alternative corp mechanics that can not be war deced, but they have little issue with the current alt (strawman) issues..

If you read my suggestion it is really clear that the intention should be making npc corps totally "useless", and gradually moving players to more pvp aspects..

The current "trench war" of caregears vs pirates.. is not going to budge until some "middle ground" is reached..

Similar issue with current tears fest of hulks and freighters being to easy to gank..

I partly agree the alpha strike issue is real, and that its to cheap to gank.. That is in no way saying it should not be possible..

atm the price to gank an autopiloted freighter filled with TRT (the cheapest item around) is about 2b.. That is 2b to about 6-8b value.. in high sec.. that is simply an upside down balance it should be reverse, so ganking was done against content that was worth it..

Segway..

The point is if we got an alternative type of corp, with less benefits.. We might get things moving towards a more mixed game, and less either vs or..
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#8 - 2012-04-24 21:04:06 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
Kinda funny that so many people dont want alternative corp mechanics that can not be war deced, but they have little issue with the current alt (strawman) issues..

If you read my suggestion it is really clear that the intention should be making npc corps totally "useless", and gradually moving players to more pvp aspects..

I don't particularly care about the current "issues" with alt corps, but I'm absolutely certain that you don't know what a strawman is.

Also, what issues with alt corps? You mean the fact that nothing of value is moved in high sec except via alt corps? Or the fact that you can drop out and escape a war dec at any time?

Caleb Ayrania wrote:
The current "trench war" of caregears vs pirates.. is not going to budge until some "middle ground" is reached..

Similar issue with current tears fest of hulks and freighters being to easy to gank..

Hulks and freighters are not being buffed because currently in most situations suicide ganking is the only viable method for killing them in high sec.

No one mines in a corp with a live war dev, similarly no one hauls stuff in a freighter in a corp with a live war dec. And there's no real punishment for dropping out.

Caleb Ayrania wrote:
atm the price to gank an autopiloted freighter filled with TRT (the cheapest item around) is about 2b.. That is 2b to about 6-8b value.. in high sec.. that is simply an upside down balance it should be reverse, so ganking was done against content that was worth it..

Segway..

Protip: don't autopilot freighters filled with expensive stuff.

Caleb Ayrania wrote:
The point is if we got an alternative type of corp, with less benefits.. We might get things moving towards a more mixed game, and less either vs or..

No, if you got a corp that was immune from war decs it would just render suicide ganks the only viable form of high sec PvP. And you've just shown your dislike for suicide ganks.

The reality is that high sec "pee vee pee" is already weighted heavily in favor of those who wish to avoid combat, Eve doesn't need toning down even more.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#9 - 2012-04-24 23:59:06 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Sooooo... basically you want all the perks of a corp without the risk of being war decked?

I'm going to have to say... no.

Actually it sounds like he wants sov null but with concord and mission agents.

Still going to have to say no though.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-04-25 02:08:59 UTC
You know player corps can drop stations and set them to allow anyone to dock, right?

You and your corp could go civilize nullsec space right now!
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#11 - 2012-04-25 03:32:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleb Ayrania
I dont see how the suggested mechanics is any ways giving perks..

Its making it possible to "play the game" socially integrating and forming affiliations, but at a huge cost in access and financial benefits..

This would also make it more "accepted" to nerf current npc corp status even further..

It would be possible to make npc corps only a small step above a trial account..

Limit personal hangars.

Transaction tax on Trade window exchanges based on total items base values.

There is nothing wrong with ALTs and multiple accounts, but the current system is not optimal..

The reason many stay in npc corps is only because of fear of war dec. That is understandable, since it can potentially block peoples game experience. No one is ever fully safe in EVE, and thats all good and fine.. but the war dec and general aggression system atm is not optimal..

Even with the announced changes I dont see any real novel ideas.. Its knob turning mostly..

Something like an actual letter of marque system would be nice.. Tradable kill rights. A system of comfort flag flying. Aggression rights from corp jumping. To this I would say remove the corp jumping time limit, and let people jump as much as they like and as frequent as they like. If the aggression rights follow the players this limitation would not be needed anymore. It would be possible to make the limitation on adding access rights to new players, and preferably only a big warning notice on trying to add rights.

On a similar note. Showing peoples affiliations clearly in employment history is a bit to "easy" there should be a way of clearing your background, especially since we have character trading. This information should be shown in the character info, if any.

@Simi : I am talking about the legal concept of a straw man, not the fallacy. So pretty sure the comparison holds with current usage of npc coverage to protect "third party"
Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-04-27 02:39:30 UTC
Wolodymyr wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Sooooo... basically you want all the perks of a corp without the risk of being war decked?

I'm going to have to say... no.

Actually it sounds like he wants sov null but with concord and mission agents.

Still going to have to say no though.


Out of all of the random noses being poked into the topic, this one almost got the scent right.

Why shouldn't capsuleers have the ability to re-invest in empire space and help it grow and thrive? We already do it through endless missioning, mining, industry, and countless other ways. Why shouldn't we have a goal for empire players that gives them the same sense of accomplishment that players in Sov space are able to find?
Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.
Quesa
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#13 - 2012-04-27 04:21:59 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Can not be war dec'd? No.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#14 - 2012-04-27 05:39:00 UTC
Wonder if it was Marie Antoinette or the Goons that said.. "Can't they all just go to null?"
Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-04-27 05:47:34 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
Wonder if it was Marie Antoinette or the Goons that said.. "Can't they all just go to null?"



It's alliances like the goons that make it difficult for new players to really have a chance to be part of something grand. Sure you can go into Null, if you pass someone else's tests & requirements and that someone isn't going to stab you in the back the second you're out there and the people they're working with aren't going to turn on you and screw everyone over.

There are a lot of different play styles in this game, a lot of occupations, a lot of adventures to be found out there. If Null is where the space cowboys settle their ranches why can't civilized folk put up new neighborhoods in the city? I've been in several Null-sec alliances -- and to be completely honest just reading the e-mails I missed while my account was unpaid was enough to turn me off of it for a good long time.

Eve is a game that has a real risk of turning into a second job, but I feel that you should be able to play the game as a game instead of a job and be able to hit some of the same milestones. For an industry player one of those milestones is leaving a lasting mark in the starscape of new eden.

So I ask again, why shouldn't capsuleers be able to fund expansions to existing NPC corps in the form of new stations for them or assist in the founding of new NPC Corps & establishement of their first station?
Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#16 - 2012-04-27 05:58:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
I strongly recommend that OP read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=101626

Then HTFU and come to terms with how you are killing our game.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-04-27 06:30:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Katerwaul
Simi Kusoni wrote:
I strongly recommend that OP read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=101626

Then HTFU and come to terms with how you are killing our game.



  • Achievement Unlocked: Anti-Carebear Manifesto


Still don't see how adding an isk Sink in the form of founding an NPC Corporation, building a station, and rearranging the locaitons of NPC Agents kills the game. If you're a null gamer, push for what you want in your game. I want to sculpt the backstory & the world that the newest players get to experience.

I want more epic back in my game. I want tankable concord back in sec 0.5 & 0.6 systems w/ backup being called in from other systems. I want epic incursions into highsec & lowsec to reshape the landscape of the game.

It could just be my perspective. The last time I was really involved in the game was over a year ago since coming back in the last few months. I'm dissapointed that there has been a lot of the change that has occurred...but that doesn't make me want to stop improving high-sec or empire space.

As a citizen of the empires Concord is there to protect us when we're within their jurisdiction. It only makes sense that they would use whatever technologies are at their disposal to protect us from the unknown and they are under no obligation to disclose any of these new technologies to any other governements or agencies.
Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#18 - 2012-04-27 06:39:11 UTC
The problem is NPC corps can't be war decced, and your idea seems to infer that it would give some benefit to those implementing these new stations. That constitutes a buff to high sec.

And unfortunately we seem to be beyond the point where CCP will ever back track on the omnipotent concord.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-04-27 06:56:26 UTC
Now, now... this proposal isn't completely without merit.

It would be somewhat interesting to see NPC-aligned corporations/alliances (much like you have Faction War aligned alliances) and a new form of gameplay in high-sec for the carebears.

However, in the spirit of EvE, which is PvP - there would need to be the following:

- NPC-aligned corporations/alliances would be fair game for war decs, faction warfare, invasion by other 0.0/Pirate/Opposing Faction alliances and all the other wonderful ways that EvE provides for us to explode one another.

- These corporations/alliances should not receive support from their chosen empire but would instead be expected to field their own defence force/police in the systems they occupy. (prehaps some minor police assistance on gates/stations maybe?)

Without the above, this idea is not worth entertaining as players can already receive relative security in high-sec space as it is.
Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-04-27 06:56:47 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
The problem is NPC corps can't be war decced, and your idea seems to infer that it would give some benefit to those implementing these new stations. That constitutes a buff to high sec..


Well that I can understand. Then I suppose "affiliation" without "alliance" would make more sense for the current environment.

The heart of the idea is the ability to put into player hands a way to impact New Eden in an epic way. The idea isn't to protect people, but to give players an option for an Epic Win. That moment when you look at it and think "F--- Yeah" as all of the flow and fiero come together.
Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.
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