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New dev blog: Spaceship Murder Notifications

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Steelshine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#121 - 2012-04-25 16:32:01 UTC
Would it be possible for everyone appearing on a kill notification receive an in game copy of it, versus only the person landing the finishing blow?
Jack bubu
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#122 - 2012-04-25 16:32:20 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Jack bubu wrote:
Fiona Hellkitten wrote:
Really this change is pretty bleh.

If killboards where integrated into eve/eve-gate, that would be useful and good. This is just half-assed and so it's ultimately useless.

The killmails, or reports if you prefer, are still only showing you kills you get the final blow for. In order to be useful or worthwhile, it'd have to show all mails you were on, and scale up for corp and alliances. Then you can simply use eve/eve-gate for your killboard needs. A killboard that updates instantly, covers all of eve, and is always accurate? That would be fantastic. No doubt people will still maintain killboards, but they wouldn't be necessary anymore.

Since this will still only show the mails you get the final blow for, it's still limited to the point of uselessness. And the only reason you're going into the window will STILL be just so you can copy the information and post it to a REAL killboard.

If the combat log tab stays the same, and you only see this new crap when you choose to and open up a kill's details, then I don't care. Otherwise, it's all being redesigned and this is another crappy new graphical "feature" being forced upon us, I'm going to hate this. The new graphics and crap will just make it slower to load, use more resources, and take up more screen-room when you open it, which will suck because the only reason you are opening it is so you can get the text data you need to update a real killboard.

If you want to do something useful, integrate killboards for real. If you're going to do useless fluff like this, fine, but allow me the option to keep things the way they are, because I don't need or want more graphical clutter. I like minimalist setup. For example, the compact lists in chats was like the best feature ever.


I disagree instant updating killboards is bad, if neither of the killer or the victim choose to post a killmail its their choice.


It's not up to you it is up to CONCORD and the Insurance companies. There are regulations in place for you to receive your insurance payout.

lolroleplayer

get out of here
A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
#123 - 2012-04-25 16:33:00 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:

yeah it stays the same so you don't have to look at the "crappy new graphical "feature" being forced upon" you


I know this may come as a shock to you, but there are many players who have more than one account, and see extra things for the sake of extra as wasteful. An entire subset of your subscriber base that does things like go into the System Control Panel and tick the 'Performance' tab. It's useless for us when Microsoft does it (Aero, anyone?), and it's useless for us when you do it.

"Look, you can show info from another place! Wow!"
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#124 - 2012-04-25 16:33:36 UTC
Real Poison wrote:
When are you going to do the next logical step and create an official and unfakeable killboard to integrate with evegate? With all the bells and whistles. Alliance startpages, corporation startpages, personal startpages. Social functions like (eg. a MOCK-Button) to post this failmail on the forums...?
Let me start by saying that I'm absolutely not going to make any promises here whatsoever with regards to feature set, functionality or timeline, but having said that then the team behind the upcoming new EVE API (CREST) has booked a meeting with Team Super Friends next week to start exploring potential options for a possible pilot project, which would involve exposing information on Kill Reports through CREST. If you want to know more about CREST then read https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1001699#post1001699

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad
#125 - 2012-04-25 16:33:46 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
This is pretty much how we do UI around here. A UI designer (CCP Sharq is on Team Super Friends but we also get assistance from CCP Arrow from Team Game of Drones) makes a fantasy mock up based on what the game designers want, and then we iterate on it a billion times until we get something that we both looks nice and is functional aaaand is technically possible to make (there we often have to involve the server programmers, hi Tuxford!) Big smile


Yeah that's pretty cool, my business partner and I follow a similar process in our web design business.

I didn't want to jump too far ahead in discussion, since this devblog is here to encompass just how the individual killmails are represented, but I was hoping you might be able to discuss the current state of the hierarchy of this new killmail UI and whether or not you may be including battle reports which encompass a specific time period like we see on current killboards when we look at "related kills". I was wondering if ya'll were planning a system that looked something like this in the end? Cool

Keep it up, we love this stuff.

PIZZA CEO
Aselus
Crimson Right
#126 - 2012-04-25 16:34:03 UTC
126th!!!!!!!!!!!

Awesome stuff though!, oo hahah being able to replay a battle(with death dots) like you said a few posts up would be epic awesome!
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#127 - 2012-04-25 16:35:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Andrea Griffin wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Fiona Hellkitten wrote:
For example, the compact lists in chats was like the best feature ever.
you're welcomeBlink
I'd like to second this. The compact list, as simple a feature though it may seem, has been a HUGE improvement for me and many others.


I know! it's my own personal little thing I've made, that and the filtering in the skills listBlink

Now we just need faction and officer modules to be filtered out during market searchTwisted

Droped value would be a good addition.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#128 - 2012-04-25 16:36:08 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Explorer
Jemiria wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
I really also want to know why seconds are important. Big smile

Some players like to analyze in detail how a particular engagement went. timing can be essential, as is the precise order of things. rounded of to the minute really destoys the resolution you want to understand exacty what happened; how effects and actions are orchestrated. perhaps you should ask CCP Veritas about this subject ;)
Or we all should read what Masterplan said https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1190575#post1190575 about how we batch the creation of Kill Reports and how therefore they are only accurate to the minute anyway.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#129 - 2012-04-25 16:38:49 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:


Getting xyz coords on the kill is also on our list. I've seen some nice mockups of what could done on killboards with this information, especially when it comes to producing a 'timelapse' display of a particularly spectacular fight. I want to give you the data to make this happen.

Which leads me to increasing the precision of timestamps to include seconds: This isn't straightforward due to the reports being generated in the background in batches. This is why there is sometimes a short delay where everyone in fleet is asking 'Who got the mail?' for up to a minute until it gets processed. It isn't impossible for us to make this happen, but it also isn't as simple as just adding a seconds column to the timestamp. The batching means there's always an inherent error of +/-60s, and that is what needs to be resolved.


Could you have a ship exploding cause the server to save the location and time, then when the kill batch generator comes around a minute later, it reads this file?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#130 - 2012-04-25 16:38:55 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Fiona Hellkitten wrote:
If the combat log tab stays the same, and you only see this new crap when you choose to and open up a kill's details, then I don't care.

yeah it stays the same so you don't have to look at the "crappy new graphical "feature" being forced upon" you

Fiona Hellkitten wrote:

For example, the compact lists in chats was like the best feature ever.

you're welcomeBlink


That was possibly the nicest "Yes I was thinking about your needs when I made this and don't you feel like an ass for being a jerk about it" posts I have ever seen.

Well done. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
#131 - 2012-04-25 16:39:19 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Jemiria wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
I really also want to know why seconds are important. Big smile

Some players like to analyze in detail how a particular engagement went. timing can be essential, as is the precise order of things. rounded of to the minute really destoys the resolution you want to understand exacty what happened; how effects and actions are orchestrated. perhaps you should ask CCP Veritas about this subject ;)
Or we all should read what Masterplan said https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1190575#post1190575 about how we batch the creation of Kill Reports and how therefore they are only accurate to the minute anyway.



Then maybe ya'll should fix that instead of fixing things that aren't broken.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2012-04-25 16:44:43 UTC
having the XYZ coords open up a ton of possibilities.

I see a future with killboards showing a map of the star system where a battle took place. On that map would be markers of all the ship losses that you could click on and see the kill report that we are use too.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#133 - 2012-04-25 16:46:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Shootin' Star wrote:
+1 for kill info revamp! Any possibility that we'll get logistics into the involved parties?


there's no ETA on that yet, sorry! but it's something we really want in the futureBig smile



The changes you guys did here are nice, but for the most part you are just doing what third parties (battle clinic and eve kill) already do. Your not really adding much - if anything.

IMO It woule be better if you did things that actually made the killmail data more accruate. Like:

1)Add Logistics
2) add off grid boosters
3) If I make through a battle cruiser gate camp and jump through a gate with 2% structure and a crow on the other side finishes me off, the killmail should not say it was a solo kill from the crow.
4) fix allot of the bad information on killmails. Like who did what damage. Someone who did 0% damage should not have given the final blow.
5) Help third party killboards by providing the name changes you make in an easy to access way. I Haven't been able to post to Amarr militia killboard in over a month because of the minor name changes you keep making. Please make it easy for third party killboards to update their databases.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#134 - 2012-04-25 16:47:16 UTC
A55 Burger wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Jemiria wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
I really also want to know why seconds are important. Big smile

Some players like to analyze in detail how a particular engagement went. timing can be essential, as is the precise order of things. rounded of to the minute really destoys the resolution you want to understand exacty what happened; how effects and actions are orchestrated. perhaps you should ask CCP Veritas about this subject ;)
Or we all should read what Masterplan said https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1190575#post1190575 about how we batch the creation of Kill Reports and how therefore they are only accurate to the minute anyway.
Then maybe ya'll should fix that instead of fixing things that aren't broken.
The creation is batched for performance reasons; in particular in big fights we have to make sure the CPU cycles are spent on the fight itself.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#135 - 2012-04-25 16:49:18 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:


Getting xyz coords on the kill is also on our list. I've seen some nice mockups of what could done on killboards with this information, especially when it comes to producing a 'timelapse' display of a particularly spectacular fight. I want to give you the data to make this happen.

Which leads me to increasing the precision of timestamps to include seconds: This isn't straightforward due to the reports being generated in the background in batches. This is why there is sometimes a short delay where everyone in fleet is asking 'Who got the mail?' for up to a minute until it gets processed. It isn't impossible for us to make this happen, but it also isn't as simple as just adding a seconds column to the timestamp. The batching means there's always an inherent error of +/-60s, and that is what needs to be resolved.


Could you have a ship exploding cause the server to save the location and time, then when the kill batch generator comes around a minute later, it reads this file?

How much would adding the time complicate the kill report generator?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Zaragis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#136 - 2012-04-25 16:50:21 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:


add the kill report to the Combat Log everyone that was involved (and their corp too)?


I REALLY like this idea! i definitely agree!
3rd Party Kill-boards, such as BattleClinic & EVE-Kill have this.. And i don't even bother looking at my in-game kills because of these boards & that every kill i'm involved in, is shown on my record. Also, often the final blow is not always the person who dealt the most damage or really contributed that much, for example, I've seen a T1 frigate get the final blow on an Erebus... Unless that frigate had a DDD, i highly doubt it was the top damage dealer... haha. So i really think that everyone on the "Kill Report" should have that in their combat logs. Also it will make it easier to share around the kill report to fellow friends if everyone involved has the kill report in their combat logs... Otherwise if we can't get it off the person who delivered the final blow (may of just been a neut that decided to whore on the report & got lucky) then we are going to go to 3rd Party kill-boards anyway.. So i really think this feature is needed :)

But i LOVE the new kill report and i think that it is the only thing that needs to be added :) But +1 this make-over of the new killmails.. I mean Kill Reports :DAttentionAttentionAttention
A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
#137 - 2012-04-25 16:51:37 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
]The creation is batched for performance reasons; in particular in big fights we have to make sure the CPU cycles are spent on the fight itself.


Now this makes sense from a performance perspective!

Another performance thought, while I have your eyes.... people and places should work for items, so you don't have to open the market browser. It seems to go with the same theme as the killmail / kill report thing, only we'd actually use it.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#138 - 2012-04-25 16:56:26 UTC
Cearain wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Shootin' Star wrote:
+1 for kill info revamp! Any possibility that we'll get logistics into the involved parties?


there's no ETA on that yet, sorry! but it's something we really want in the futureBig smile



The changes you guys did here are nice, but for the most part you are just doing what third parties (battle clinic and eve kill) already do. Your not really adding much - if anything.

IMO It woule be better if you did things that actually made the killmail data more accruate. Like:

1)Add Logistics
2) add off grid boosters
3) If I make through a battle cruiser gate camp and jump through a gate with 2% structure and a crow on the other side finishes me off, the killmail should not say it was a solo kill from the crow.
4) fix allot of the bad information on killmails. Like who did what damage. Someone who did 0% damage should not have given the final blow.
5) Help third party killboards by providing the name changes you make in an easy to access way. I Haven't been able to post to Amarr militia killboard in over a month because of the minor name changes you keep making. Please make it easy for third party killboards to update their databases.


We know that and it was also stated in the dev blog, we're just giving the kill reports some facelift and used the kill boards as referenceBig smile

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#139 - 2012-04-25 16:58:03 UTC
A55 Burger wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:

yeah it stays the same so you don't have to look at the "crappy new graphical "feature" being forced upon" you


I know this may come as a shock to you, but there are many players who have more than one account, and see extra things for the sake of extra as wasteful. An entire subset of your subscriber base that does things like go into the System Control Panel and tick the 'Performance' tab. It's useless for us when Microsoft does it (Aero, anyone?), and it's useless for us when you do it.

"Look, you can show info from another place! Wow!"



I believe the words you are looking for are "Excellent, thank you". Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#140 - 2012-04-25 17:09:11 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
BeanBagKing wrote:
Two requests:

1) For killmail time, please go to seconds, I think this one should be reasonable?
2) I've been told this is less reasonable, but having X,Y,Z coordinates of where in the system the kill took place would be awesome. Give us that and I'm confident the players will find amazing things to do with it.

I like it a lot better than the current killmails though!
why do you need the seconds? I'm just curiousBig smile

the x,y,z stuff is also something we don't have available yet but maybe sometime in the future
I really also want to know why seconds are important. Big smile


I think this has been answered by yourself and other players, but to expand on it...

This is especially important if you do eventually add x,y,x to the mails, as you've said, you've seen some amazing mockups of what players can do with killboards if this info is added. Flash battle report playbacks anyone? How much worse would it make the server if, say, it had to do a batch of 2 mail every second, or did a batch of 120 every minute? I realize that server performance isn't based on things just having the same average, but it seems to me that if killmails put that much stress on servers perhaps some optimization is due anyway?

I know killmails need a lot of love, final blow with 0 damage? How many of those do I have... unknown weapons, pods dealing highest damage P all sorts of things get messed up with those. Not to mention the big changes like getting logi on killmails. So this wouldn't be top on your list anyway, but I hope it gets added to the queue.