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Goons "legalising" botting!!

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Cypermethren
Perkone
Caldari State
#221 - 2011-09-29 22:52:24 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Homo Erectus wrote:
i'm no one's friend and as vile rat knows i've never tried to be.

but don't alt-backup a goon csm post when they get called out. you put on the csm badge, don't pull the "we're not policemen"

No, you're not, and no one said you were, and no one elected you to be. But leading a 50,000,000 conglomeration of zombies with a "we're not policemen, and look the other way at blue bots" doesn't make anyone with 2 eyes happy.



Are you suggesting I allow our guys to take the law into their own hands and shoot allies based on their own opinions? "this jerk who keeps hanging around my ratting spot sure rats a lot, but I want this system I'll say he was a bot and take him out!"

This is not something I condone. Report bots. They have the technical ability to get rid of these jerks. I'm not interested in arbitrating drama.




Stop twisting the origional statement


The origional statement speficily entailed to NOT shoot the BOTTING Players ("extreamly keen ratters....that may notreply to pm's for 13-18 hours at a time...") And at the same time that you're not police for CCP.


So yes - in part your'e statement is true - No big alliance wants players starting to shoot other players because it will cause a diplomatic nightmare, cause corps within the alliance to break off and leave , or worse stay and cause more drama because they wont work together.


But you're trying to swing the focus away from the SINGLE POINT IN THIS THREAD THAT PEOPLE ARE PISSED OFF ABOUT.


You told you're members NOT to "play cop" for CCP, meaning you do not want you're members reporting other members for botting, as it will cause teh same ****, plus way more because of you're CSM position/involvements in the matter.



God this game you and CCP are playing shitts me.


It's like going to you're boss about a position advertised at you're work - you ask them hey if X person was to apply would you be less interested in tehm because of their Age or certain work experience - and you're told right then to your'e face that it doesnt matter if you're black, white,blue, man, woman, shehe, abbo, brit or aussie, that you have the exact same chances of getting the job.


But when it comes down to the actual matter peoples personal feelings, preferences and tastes are what decides who gets the job, nothing to do with the actual facts which you stated that you go after.

The entire world runs off this bullshit notion - say one thing do another. Us consumers are not retards, you rubbing "this is what we realy do" when we know you do differently when push comes to shove - thinking us idiots that will believe it infuriates us more.

Cut the crap - you're digging yourselves a deeper hole.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#222 - 2011-09-29 22:59:59 UTC
Dunbar Hulan wrote:
Storm in a tea cup.


Relatively speaking, maybe so--I mean, they all do it, and we all know it, and we all know why they continue to get away with it--but this is just another symptom, not the disease. And if you'll pardon the mixed metaphor, the Pandora's Box of the actual disease has been wide-freakin-open for a long, long, time.

And now, I'll play the Devil's advocate for a bit:

I think one potential problem here is, that the EULA--as far as I know/recall--doesn't explicitly state:

1) What constitutes knowledge and/or approval of botting/other cheats
2) If, and if so, then how that constitutes being an "accessory before and/or after the fact"
3) What the penalties for same should be, or if there even should be penalties for it?

regarding these, how do you prove this? In that sense, there should also be an explicit section in the EULA defining how Alliances/corps can, and why they must, "police themselves" strictly, with harsh penalties for non-compliance.

But again, how to explicitly prove this? This is absolutely critical in the case of (2), especially.

TL/DR:

We do need explicit rules defining the role of non-botters in an organisation that is known/can be proven to be botting, and what, if any, penalties should be applied to them for not reporting them.

But:

I don't know if this is realistically possible, to be quite honest, given that evidence of botting is fundamentally circumstantial in nature, and that one "tacitly approving" of same is a purely subjective perception on the part of another--hello, potential for gross abuse, here??


Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#223 - 2011-09-29 23:00:44 UTC
Youd think being a CSM, endorsing not reporting ppl that are obviously botting would... matter cause you know... the CSM... matters

oh yeah...

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#224 - 2011-09-29 23:00:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
The Apostle wrote:
.......


You need to let this go.
This topic would have gone alot farther and been alot more productive if you would have not pointed fingers.
Even your title is set up to inflame, you could have said 0.0 Alliance "legalising" Botting!!

Nobody is argueing that what was done was questionable.
But that is CCP's call on what to do about it and if it is bannable.
You need to report it and move on.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Zirse
Risktech Analytics
#225 - 2011-09-29 23:05:12 UTC
Do people seriously expect CCP to act on a leaked post from a private forum? Roll

tl;dr

Goons exploit grey areas of EULA, more news to follow at 11.

Now please let this pants-on-head retardation die already.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#226 - 2011-09-29 23:06:04 UTC
SmashTech wrote:
I could've guessed from the title that this was going to be a BoB-fest but jeeze oh man this exceeded all my expectations. I mean seriously: Goons "legalising" botting!! You sorry pubbie.


ShockedWhat?Roll

Are you just trolling, or are you truly this dense and myopic?

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#227 - 2011-09-29 23:08:32 UTC
How did this thread make it this far in the first place? I could be wrong but calling out a corp on the forums usually gets threads locked

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
SmashTech
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#228 - 2011-09-29 23:10:42 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Are you just trolling, or are you truly this dense and myopic?


Take a guess, given the quality of this thread.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#229 - 2011-09-29 23:12:21 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Post when you have a picture and aren't in the starter NPC corporation.


Post with your main, Mittens.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
SmashTech
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#230 - 2011-09-29 23:13:57 UTC
Don't feed Mara's ego by comparing him to Our Dear Leader
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#231 - 2011-09-29 23:14:55 UTC
SmashTech wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Are you just trolling, or are you truly this dense and myopic?


Take a guess, given the quality of this thread.


Im guessing trolling, cause thats all Goons ever do
They dont seem to get snipped for doing it either. I wanna be a Goon so I can do whatever I want on the forums an not get moderated too!

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
SmashTech
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#232 - 2011-09-29 23:16:30 UTC
That's not true, they censored one of our favorite peoples' names from the forums and permabanned him.


Because that was a totally effective method of damage control. Really, it was. Mad props to whoever came up with that idea.
Stella SGP
#233 - 2011-09-29 23:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Stella SGP
Vile rat wrote:
Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.


We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it.

And this is exactly why null-sec is botting heaven compared to hi-sec.

Edit: BTW the thread got derailed, noone is saying you should allow blue on blue violence or whatever, the problem people have here is why are alliances allowed to threaten their members in regards to reporting EULA violations. If you want to say that its outside the game how an alliance wants to run their business and CCP can't interfere then fine. Because if thats the case CCP should not interfere when someone willingly donates money to a website and people running the website willingly gifts in-game ISK to the individual as it is also outside the game how people want to spend their money. It's the principle of the matter.
Gaia Ma'chello
Photosynth
#234 - 2011-09-29 23:19:17 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.


We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it.



People who do bad things have been known to lie on internet forums.
Brooson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#235 - 2011-09-29 23:21:12 UTC
Goonswarm is actually a giant alliance run completely by bots all controlled by Mittani.
SmashTech
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#236 - 2011-09-29 23:21:52 UTC
Not to take sides in this "Goons are terrible RMTers with a huge bot army" argument or anything, but have any of you considered that Goonswarm keeps their finances publicly available?


edit: I am also a mittani posting-bot.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#237 - 2011-09-29 23:22:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Hammond II
SmashTech wrote:
That's not true, they censored one of our favorite peoples' names from the forums and permabanned him.


Because that was a totally effective method of damage control. Really, it was. Mad props to whoever came up with that idea.


Kugutsumen?
He wasnt a goon was he?

edit: lol dude's name was banned in 2006 an its still filtered - way to hold a grudge guys

and anyways Im talking more recent. Ive seen your magnificent leader or w/e you call mittens trolling, openly, admitting that he was trolling, and no moderation. OTHER ppl get it but the ppl openly admitting that theyre doing it dont lol

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#238 - 2011-09-29 23:24:06 UTC
Quote:
You need to let this go.
This topic would have gone alot farther and been alot more productive if you would have not pointed fingers.
Even your title is set up to inflame, you could have said 0.0 Alliance "legalising" Botting!!

Nobody is argueing that what was done was questionable.
But that is CCP's call on what to do about it and if it is bannable.
You need to report it and move on.


Yes of course.

Except that this topic has over 200 replies and nearly 3000 views. Attempts have been made to repeatedly dumb it down and dissipate the topic at hand.

And yet the question still remains....

Should the Goons (or ANY alliance) be allowed to

1) Threaten players for reporting?
2) Even address the issue of reporting bots internally when the EULA is CCP v Individual.
3) Knowingly harbour/support and secure ground for bots?

And CCP has not clarified the position on ALLIANCE intervention and involvement in EULA issues.

btw: I could give 100 analogies where refusing to acknowledge/address/act/report or indeed to participate in an illegal activity is deemed as legalising by proxy - it's perception based. My title stands. I have also explained my title in an earlier post.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Emiko P'eng
#239 - 2011-09-29 23:24:15 UTC
Cypermethren wrote:

But parking on a yellow line isnt hurting anyone.

As some one whose Grandmother nearly died after she collapsed in M&S, due to a car parked on 'Double Yellow Lines' which held up the ambulance for over 15 minutes!

If it wasn't for the paramedic running almost half a mile and passer bys helping by lifting the car out the way she would DEAD!

Parking on double yellow lines can risk other peoples lives by stopping ambulances, fire engines and other emergency vehicles from getting by!

So next time do some research before making inane stupid comments!

The same goes for 'Double Parking'

News.Scotrsman. com - Ban double parking please
Aryndel Vyst
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#240 - 2011-09-29 23:26:17 UTC
SREEGS