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New Dev Blog: UI and I – Our Little Improvements Together V2

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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#161 - 2012-04-23 13:57:50 UTC
This is one of the better dev blogs I seen in some time. The content is awsome.

But as usual, there's always something I have to complain about, so sorry karkur, but:
* "tooltips in scrolls"
* "entry in a scroll"
* "If the scroll has focus"
* "table-like scrolls"

WHAT THE HELL IS SCROLLS?
I like to see myself as an avid gamer. From the Atari2600 in early 80's, pen and paper RPG, board games, programming Basic and later C/C++, for a while GM in a small MMO, fulltime gamer for a decade, Mud- and textbased adventure pioneer on private BBS using don't-remember-how-******-modem for the Amiga500, played most bigger MMO-titles on the market, *gasps for air*..
..but scrolls?
Mouse wheel scrolls? I find that hard to fit with the text.
Scrolls, like spell-scrolls in RPGs? There's no such thing in EVE, closest would be BPC but that seems completely irrelevant in these subjects, and very confusing?

I just can't figure out what the **** you mean, maybe at 30+ I should retire, my brain is just not what it used to be anymore.. P

(it does sound awsome with the copy-paste spreadsheet stuff, I have plenty of excel sheets myself, I just wish I knew what the hell you mean)

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#162 - 2012-04-23 15:12:33 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Misanth wrote:

WHAT THE HELL IS SCROLLS?
I like to see myself as an avid gamer. From the Atari2600 in early 80's, pen and paper RPG, board games, programming Basic and later C/C++, for a while GM in a small MMO, fulltime gamer for a decade, Mud- and textbased adventure pioneer on private BBS using don't-remember-how-******-modem for the Amiga500, played most bigger MMO-titles on the market, *gasps for air*..
..but scrolls?
Mouse wheel scrolls? I find that hard to fit with the text.
Scrolls, like spell-scrolls in RPGs? There's no such thing in EVE, closest would be BPC but that seems completely irrelevant in these subjects, and very confusing?
haha, I'm sorry...obviously I mean stuff that scrolls P....We always just talk about scrolls, and I guess I just assumed people knew what I meant by "scroll". It's basically anything you can get a scroll bar on.

Examples of scrolls:
Overview
"Browse" tab in market
Skill list in charactersheet
List of mails in your mail window.

I hope that explains it, if not, I'll give it another go Big smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#163 - 2012-04-23 15:14:11 UTC
Good 'nuf, thanks for clarifying. It did sound like internal lingo, yes. P

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Santina Azurant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#164 - 2012-04-23 17:31:10 UTC
This is all very awesome and will make life as a large scale marketeer so much easier.

I would like to see one more thing implemented though, and that is a order history tab.

Pretty much what it sounds like, a tab where you can see a history of recently finished/closed/fullfilled market orders


Cheers
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#165 - 2012-04-23 19:39:35 UTC
Santina Azurant wrote:
This is all very awesome and will make life as a large scale marketeer so much easier.

I would like to see one more thing implemented though, and that is a order history tab.

Pretty much what it sounds like, a tab where you can see a history of recently finished/closed/fullfilled market orders


Cheers


Your wallet already has a history tab. Not sure if you want more than what's already showing tho, but you definately have your finished/fulfilled market orders showing there already?

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Santina Azurant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2012-04-23 20:24:15 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Santina Azurant wrote:
This is all very awesome and will make life as a large scale marketeer so much easier.

I would like to see one more thing implemented though, and that is a order history tab.

Pretty much what it sounds like, a tab where you can see a history of recently finished/closed/fullfilled market orders


Cheers


Your wallet already has a history tab. Not sure if you want more than what's already showing tho, but you definately have your finished/fulfilled market orders showing there already?



I don't know what kind of wallet you have, but mine only shows currently active orders. It does show transaction history, which needs to be cross-checked vs the order tab
Xyfu
Love From Above
#167 - 2012-04-23 23:31:00 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Misanth wrote:

WHAT THE HELL IS SCROLLS?
I like to see myself as an avid gamer. From the Atari2600 in early 80's, pen and paper RPG, board games, programming Basic and later C/C++, for a while GM in a small MMO, fulltime gamer for a decade, Mud- and textbased adventure pioneer on private BBS using don't-remember-how-******-modem for the Amiga500, played most bigger MMO-titles on the market, *gasps for air*..
..but scrolls?
Mouse wheel scrolls? I find that hard to fit with the text.
Scrolls, like spell-scrolls in RPGs? There's no such thing in EVE, closest would be BPC but that seems completely irrelevant in these subjects, and very confusing?
haha, I'm sorry...obviously I mean stuff that scrolls P....We always just talk about scrolls, and I guess I just assumed people knew what I meant by "scroll". It's basically anything you can get a scroll bar on.

Examples of scrolls:
Overview
"Browse" tab in market
Skill list in charactersheet
List of mails in your mail window.

I hope that explains it, if not, I'll give it another go Big smile
No offence to anyone, but how did that trainwreck excuse for a post get an answer, and mine not?

I understand the thread is long, but if I needed to pour bleach into my brain before posting to get it noticed, it'd be cool to know.
Lynn Deniera
State War Academy
Caldari State
#168 - 2012-04-24 02:37:14 UTC
I'm not sure if this has been asked, but will you be able to use the copy-paste to excel function for the corp members list screen?

I'll a little worried that the corp management will be overlooked, since its been overlooked since forever. Can you confirm that corp management is or isnt on the cards for this copy-paste excel feature?
Susurrus Synaesthesia
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#169 - 2012-04-24 16:25:42 UTC
Hey,

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but I'd really like a better way to tag targets. Currently you have to scroll through all these lists and it really takes time. Couldn't there be some system where have some hotkey that lets you tag targets and click them sequentially to add tags in that order? It would save a lot of time when running complexes as a group or during incursions! Thanks.
Arsanovae
Societe Anonyme Inc.
#170 - 2012-04-24 18:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Arsanovae
I'll admit from the outset that I understand about 1% of the inherent possibilities coded into the UI.

I did use the tooltips in the Market tab to determine a particular buyers purchase range and adjust my price/ range to compete when buying. Now that it's gone I have no idea how to find a buyers purchase range. Can I turn the tooltips back on or is there another way for me to get that info in the Market tab?

Without this I don't know how to competitively price a buy order. Thx!
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#171 - 2012-04-24 19:10:28 UTC
Riffix wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
great work!

BUT! please don't code eve to work like windows 3.1

"It's now possible to copy items in the Quickbar into another Quickbar folder by CTRL dragging them over the new folder."

How would any new player figure that out? If i didn't read this dev blog i wouldn't know about it, and I would try and try to copy items from one folder to another using different controls. Or does crtl-C crtl-V still work on top of this option?

I hope you can understand on concern. you should have a button for even, on the ui a copy to folder button. Instead of all of these cool hidden features eve gets.

Another way to fix this would be to add a list of shortcuts in the Help pin window hat helps you play the game when your new, or old.


This is an excellent point.

But thank you for the updates just the same! Any work on UI improvements is always welcome!!


yes great updates just make sure the player who don't read dev blogs know of the changes too : )

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#172 - 2012-04-24 20:59:54 UTC
Arsanovae wrote:
I'll admit from the outset that I understand about 1% of the inherent possibilities coded into the UI.

I did use the tooltips in the Market tab to determine a particular buyers purchase range and adjust my price/ range to compete when buying. Now that it's gone I have no idea how to find a buyers purchase range. Can I turn the tooltips back on or is there another way for me to get that info in the Market tab?

Without this I don't know how to competitively price a buy order. Thx!
Could you explain a little better what you mean, because I don't understand how the tooltips gave you information about the purchase range. I only removed the tooltips that had exactly the same text as the "entry" itself.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Creat Posudol
German Oldies
#173 - 2012-04-24 21:36:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Creat Posudol
I also have a few requests, hope there is still some room till inferno Blink

The first is rather trivial, can we please get a "find in contracts" entry in the context menu for the market quickbar, search results or in the category tree (basically everything in the left part of the window)? Especially with faction/officer stuff now on the market, rare items will continue to be sold to some extent on contracts (or at least it's worth a look). This also extends to faction/pirate ships. I already have it displayed. At the moment I do a "Show info" just so I can get to the "find in contracts" entry in the window-menu (top left corner) of that window (and then I close it).

Secondly: If you install an industrial job (manufacturing, invention, copy, whatever), after opening the window with all the option (usually with a rightclick on the BPO/BPC and selecting the job type) one has to click "Pick Installation". This window that comes up is all kinds of annoying for tiny and unnecessary reasons:
First of all, I can't double click an installation. If I do, I get a message box, telling me to please pick an assembly line. Why can't it automatically pick any empty line, if any are available?
Secondly, if I single-click an installation I then obviously want to select an assembly line, but if it's a POS installation I have to wait for the "filter"-part of the window to slowly creep scroll down until I can select the actual line (or it's rather hit-and-miss, most times I end up accidentally re-sorting by some column as I've hit a column header that moved itself under my cursor). Can't this filter-thingy just appear instead?
I'm sure this was originally well intentioned ("oh, let's make it look pretty and appear sllooowwwly from the top"), but nowadays where I have to do this 10 times in a row to install Invention- or manufacturing jobs, this becommes REALLY annoying rather quickyl!

On a final note: Thank you SO MUCH for the stuff that got deployed today! Especially own market order highlights are just awesome, also the tiny fact that the overview after jumping or undocking is correctly sorted right away is a huge anti-annoyance-measure. I don't know if you've had anything to do with the second thing, I'm just gonna credit you nonetheless: so really, thank you!
Adrian Dixon
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction
-affliction-
#174 - 2012-04-24 22:13:30 UTC
I posted a request somewhere else for a fitting window layout option that was really cut down to the bare minimum. Something with just the icon boxes for each mod and some essential ship stats. The current fitting window takes up most of my screen making it hard to drag modules on and off my fitting screen, a smaller version would be much nicer.
Kor'el Izia
#175 - 2012-04-25 09:42:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kor'el Izia
lceman wrote:
Kor'el Izia wrote:
Could we get a filter for the Contracts page so we can easily see our own public or private contracts?

I threw together a mockup that you can see here

nice link 5 sec on the page it tries to install virus by claiming it has detected virus on my machine. it has rogue advert on it..
u should really use evefiles.com

Here you go EveFiles

CCP Karkur, nice to see me bugging you about the note on your screen payed off Cool
Arsanovae
Societe Anonyme Inc.
#176 - 2012-04-25 13:10:04 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
[quote=Arsanovae]I'll admit from the outset that I understand about 1% of the inherent possibilities coded into the UI.

I did use the tooltips in the Market tab to determine a particular buyers purchase range and adjust my price/ range to compete when buying. Now that it's gone I have no idea how to find a buyers purchase range. Can I turn the tooltips back on or is there another way for me to get that info in the Market tab?

Without this I don't know how to competitively price a buy order. Thx!
Could you explain a little better what you mean, because I don't understand how the tooltips gave you information about the purchase range. I only removed the tooltips that had exactly the same text as the "entry" itself
[/quote

When I wrote the above comments I wasn't in EVE. Now that I've gone back in to review, I figured out my problem.

I have my Market and Wallet windows directly next to one another, side by side. This has been comfortable for me, works well, and I've just never changed it. The Market window is small enough that I can't see "Range, Min Volume, and Expires In"(and didn't even remember they where there). The only way for me to see that information was to hover over the line. Voila! All the info I need in the tooltip (I didn't even know they were called tooltips). No scrolling.

I actually liked having the tooltips. It helped me keep my desktop neater. Now I'll have to reconfigure my desktop. Unfortunately there is no way to scroll sideways in any window to see headings that are off-screen. And you can't move headings around. I can only reduce the size of the fixed heading which also reduces the information I get see. I can put the windows on top of one another but then there is a lot of up and down scrolling to see all the orders then. I want to see as much info as possible without scrolling.

Anyway, I for one would like to see tooltips back. One vote here. Thx for all the hard work btw. I especially like that I can mark my orders with a color. It's helpful.
Creat Posudol
German Oldies
#177 - 2012-04-25 16:59:31 UTC
While in most cases I'm glad that the not so useful tooltips are gone, I have the similar situation as the poster before this. I liked having the order window rather small, now I can no longer do that as I can't get to the "hidden" information.

Another option would be to get this l33t new technology implemented called "rearranging the column order". I hear it makes table controls all kinds of useful :D
(sorry for sarcasm, somewhat).
DrHeinz Doofenshmirtz
The Scope
#178 - 2012-04-25 17:42:00 UTC  |  Edited by: DrHeinz Doofenshmirtz
I have a suggestion for a minor change that would totally be awesome. I rage everytime i open the the "Show Info" popup and go to the variations tab.

Could the Modules Variations be ordered by meta level and not by alphabetical order, for each 'Tech' level.

The alphabetical order is useless
-Modules don't follow strict naming conventions. some have apostrophes some don't and it makes the current sort break anyways.
ie: E500 Prototype Energy Vampire (why u no heavy)
Heavy 'Ghoul' Energy Siphon
Heavy 'Knave' ...
Heavy Diminishing ...
-There's not that many items for each subsection ("Tech") so really alphabetical order isn't needed.
Not really true for the officer section, still it would be more useful to know the meta level

If i have to find a Meta4 Variation i have to click show info on every single variation to find out which one is m4. If you think the alphabetical order is important then just add a meta level column, displaying the meta level right there for each module. I realize i could use compare, but it shouldn't be needed just to find out which version is the meta 4 one, compare is awesome but it's also slow.


I always hoped you would improve the market search. Maybe it would make the query too slow and/or take too much server resources ? Maybe as an option.

Is it possible that "energ nano memb" would return Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane ? Basically having the intersection of each word instead of the complete string. It makes searching slightly tedious to have to type each word exactly, entirely (unless it's the last one) and in the right order. And it severely limits the possibilities to display all variations of a module. Would totally be awesome if "Navy Armor Hard" would return all navy armor hardeners.
DrHeinz Doofenshmirtz
The Scope
#179 - 2012-04-25 18:01:09 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Good 'nuf, thanks for clarifying. It did sound like internal lingo, yes. P

dev lingo :)
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#180 - 2012-04-25 20:29:45 UTC
Color indication, like border colors, if target is in range. The tactical overview is ok but it only shows the range on one plane. Many times a target is above or below that plane so it's hard to tell if, for example, my heavy launchers will hit the target. Could also be done for being in optimal: green color, within falloff yellow, out of range: red. Might be a problem for grouped weapons.

Different approach: Show range of every weapon in km above each weapon and color code that for the selected target. Same grouped weapons can be combined to just one number. If mixed weapons and/or ammo is active then well, the player has to ungroup, else get a hint: "Mixed" :)

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.