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Goons "legalising" botting!!

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pussnheels
Viziam
#121 - 2011-09-29 11:42:57 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
So, I apply to join a hostile alliance with 3 alts, set them off botting, then report them one at a time with my main. After the third report, the entire hostile alliance gets Haargoth'd, losing all of their sovereignty and assets, and all their leaders are banned, preventing them from co-ordinating any form of defence.

Yes, clearly there is no way this could ever be abused!

Sure, if CCP takes your word at face value, automates the entire system, doesn't investigate anything and talks to no one but you .. that would indeed be the result. There is of course the little matter of you being banned as well, since CCP is perfectly capable of tracing the ownership of alts


Yes you're right, of course, its completely impossible to disguise your identity on the internet.


It is obvious it is theCEO final resposibillity to expell the botter, if he doesn't he can expect a nice mail from CCP after a few warnings and to be honest are you going to turn blue every NPC corp around ? i don't think so

Goons Delenda Est

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#122 - 2011-09-29 12:00:53 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
It is obvious it is theCEO final resposibillity to expell the botter, if he doesn't he can expect a nice mail from CCP after a few warnings and to be honest are you going to turn blue every NPC corp around ? i don't think so


Wait, so if CCP identify a botter they shouldn't ban it? They should email their CEO instead?

El oh fukken el.

Quote:
Goons Delenda Est


And suddenly all becomes clear. This has nothing to do with botting, its just "I don't like them ebil goonies but I'm too worthless to do anything about it myself, I'll beg for big daddy CCP to ban them all hurrrr."

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Niko Takahashi
Yoshitomi Group
#123 - 2011-09-29 12:08:33 UTC
Is really ANYONE surprised ?

I mean this is not exactly news. Russians bot goons bot all of the nullbears bot.


I am very sceptical that CCP with the current subscription trend is going to do anything with this. it would be another 5000 accounts if not more goneSad
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#124 - 2011-09-29 13:04:07 UTC
Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.

Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.

That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2011-09-29 13:12:22 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:

That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities.


You may want to have a word or two with your CSM chairman then.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2011-09-29 13:14:50 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.

Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.

That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities.


Blue-On-Blue Violence

This is a sensitive – even a touchy – subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter – a very keen ratter if we are honest – we have one rule in Goonswarm: we don’t **** other goons. Oh and we don’t play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either:

But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoples’ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues.

You mean something along the lines of this?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#127 - 2011-09-29 13:20:35 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities.


Or else what?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
TheBadMan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#128 - 2011-09-29 13:22:18 UTC
derp derp
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#129 - 2011-09-29 13:23:27 UTC
Bad things happen.



Actually most of at least one alliance's leadership was banned at some point because the alliance pretty much existed to bot; pretty sure it was a group of Russian-based guys somewhere in the east.
Othran
Route One
#130 - 2011-09-29 13:25:33 UTC
Frankly - and I'm not defending or accusing anyone here - you could subsititute "Goons" with just about any other major sov holding alliance and the same conversations will have taken place.

The serious botters/RMTrs have been doing it for years (first bot I saw was 2004). In some instances they RUN the alliance. Try proving it though.

Pretty much every new corp into an alliance has to agree to stuff like this - no blue on blue, any probs with other alliance members then you talk to leadership FIRST, etc etc.

Genie has been out of the bottle for WAY too long on RMT - long enough to allegedly build houses from the proceeds if scuttlebutt is to be believed.

tl;dr every major sov holding alliance has exactly the same problem.
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#131 - 2011-09-29 13:42:59 UTC
Othran wrote:
Frankly - and I'm not defending or accusing anyone here - you could subsititute "Goons" with just about any other major sov holding alliance and the same conversations will have taken place.

The serious botters/RMTrs have been doing it for years (first bot I saw was 2004). In some instances they RUN the alliance. Try proving it though.

Pretty much every new corp into an alliance has to agree to stuff like this - no blue on blue, any probs with other alliance members then you talk to leadership FIRST, etc etc.

Genie has been out of the bottle for WAY too long on RMT - long enough to allegedly build houses from the proceeds if scuttlebutt is to be believed.

tl;dr every major sov holding alliance has exactly the same problem.


+1
Bubanni
Primal Instinct Inc.
The Initiative.
#132 - 2011-09-29 13:43:02 UTC
Dont know if the bot hunter team does this already or not... :b but one way to start making corps that keeping eyes out for bots... when you remove all the isk the bot has earned like you normally do... make sure the tax income the corp has earned from each.bot also... that might cause some self regulation to some degree

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#133 - 2011-09-29 13:43:15 UTC
Apollo-Moor wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.

Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.

That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities.


Blue-On-Blue Violence

This is a sensitive – even a touchy – subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter – a very keen ratter if we are honest – we have one rule in Goonswarm: we don’t **** other goons. Oh and we don’t play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either:

But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoples’ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues.

You mean something along the lines of this?


No, I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. Just like I said. Feel free to email said evidence to security@ccpgames.com

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Generals4
#134 - 2011-09-29 13:45:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Generals4
Quantessa wrote:
I don't support botting.

I don't have any issue though with an Alliance declaring rules of not grassing up people for doing it. Other players can do it, Gms can try to detect it and so on.

In real life if I park on a yellow line it's a fair cop if I get caught but I'd find it completely unacceptable if a mate called the Feds to grass me up.

Outlawing the practice of informing on people is not the same as legalising a practice.

And if you don't like Goon CSMs vote for someone else and encourage others to do likewise.


What i find funny is that in your analogy you put yourself in the feet of the offender. You basically said "if i were a botter i wouldn't like a friend to rat me out" ... well DUH!

A more appropriate question would be: if someone committed a crime against you (violence, theft, etc...) wouldn't you like a friend of the criminal to rat him out? I sure know i would. Heck i think if everyone followed a "let's not rat anyone out" policy in rl things would be a lot worse.

So why should we even find arguments to excuse a policy which is obviously counter-productive against the plague which is botting. (do however mind i don't think GOONS are special in any way regarding this issue, i'm willing to bet most alliances follow the same practice, which is disgusting imho)

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#135 - 2011-09-29 13:54:06 UTC
I'm reluctant to entertain the notion that Mittens was right since the rhetoric of the post is fairly loaded and stigmatized, but I cannot help notice something now that the whole context of the post has been aired out. I think he is simply trying to prevent McCarthyism within Goonswarm if anything.

What that says about whether or not he actually condones or does not condone botting is circumstantial at best given the context of the entire post.

Again, I do not know beyond that, anything... but it seems clear the intent is to prevent Goonswarm from devouring itself from the inside out and letting the leadership sort out all the details. Whether or not that is what they are actually doing is another question.

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#136 - 2011-09-29 13:57:02 UTC
Sebero Sinak wrote:
I've quit playing Eve but came back for about 10 days of playing around the 12th - 22nd. All i did was hunt bots for the hell of it.

CCP banned 5 bots/isk farmers running transportation missions out of Eddar VIII i reported.

After finishing with them I was curious about the Goons so using Dotlan map i chose the red colored system of Goons (meaning it had the most npc kills in 24 hrs ) and went there in a cloaked frigate. S-DN5M

I found plenty of live players willing to engage me (if they could find me ). I found no wrecks at belts i visited and no goons - till they started flooding the belts trying to find me.

What I did find was more of the npc anomolies then i cared to try to count. I don't really care about 0.0 but i hate bots and that is why i went there - to see for myself. All i saw was players running those sites.

Thats what i found..you draw your own conclusions.

My opinion is every friggin alliance has some bot users - seems eve attracts the type.


lol you have like 6 days lol
Goon alt

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#137 - 2011-09-29 13:57:33 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.

Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.

That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities.


Blue-On-Blue Violence

This is a sensitive – even a touchy – subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter – a very keen ratter if we are honest – we have one rule in Goonswarm: we don’t **** other goons. Oh and we don’t play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either:

But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoples’ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues.

You mean something along the lines of this?


No, I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. Just like I said. Feel free to email said evidence to security@ccpgames.com



well lets face it, if you banned every bot out there now, you would loose a massive amount of accounts. and the bottom line is i doubt you could afford the cash flow hit

OMG when can i get a pic here
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#138 - 2011-09-29 14:04:04 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.

Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.

That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities.


Blue-On-Blue Violence

This is a sensitive – even a touchy – subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter – a very keen ratter if we are honest – we have one rule in Goonswarm: we don’t **** other goons. Oh and we don’t play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either:

But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoples’ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues.

You mean something along the lines of this?


No, I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. Just like I said. Feel free to email said evidence to security@ccpgames.com



well lets face it, if you banned every bot out there now, you would loose a massive amount of accounts. and the bottom line is i doubt you could afford the cash flow hit


This is the reasoning botters use to bot..
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#139 - 2011-09-29 14:09:22 UTC
its also the reason there still allowed to bot.

OMG when can i get a pic here
Enuen Ravenseye
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2011-09-29 14:13:41 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it.


Seriously, did you manage to type that with a straight face?

The botting problem has been building for YEARS. It has reached the point of being ridiculous, or maybe just plain comical. As has been noted in this and every thread, botting is now everywhere and is being practiced by every major (and minor) corp/alliance in game. Yet you continue to do nothing of substance beyond repeating the same tired line of "We investigate reports and occasionally ban a few people".

I guess you haven't noticed that pattern yet, eh? Or are you admitting that you don't view botting as a problem? Either way, that's pretty damned sad.