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Concerning the drone nerf....
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ShootsBlues McAwoxer
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-04-18 11:54:29 UTC  |  Edited by: ShootsBlues McAwoxer
I am curious what exactly CCP plans to do with the drone deadspace sites (independence, radiance, ect.) after the drones are given a bounty. Will there be a new class of deadspace loot along with a redesign of these sites? Are they going to be removed completely and some other already existing deadspace faction/loot will appear in these sites? Or, the one I see as most likely, are we going to be stuck with a whole bunch of useless DED sites with no deadspace loot, no alloys, and laughably small bounty amounts that make them not worth the time to run?

Seeing as how there was no mention of how they would be dealing with this in the dev blogs, I am somewhat worried that this will not be properly addressed before the patch is thrown up.



TL;DR

Will 8/10 drone DED sites drop B-type BS-sized gear like gist/pith/ect 8/10s already do and so on (not necessarily 8/10s specifically, but will the loot tables be comparable for similar drone sites?)
Kalestra Cable
EVE University
Ivy League
#2 - 2012-04-18 11:58:27 UTC
In the dev blog it was stated the only change was the alloys would be removed and bounties added, everything else such as loot, complexes etc would possibly looked at a later date. *no promises*
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-04-18 12:00:28 UTC
wait, am I getting this wrong but that sounds like drones are just going to have bounties now and no loot.
Doesn't that make it a more interesting place to rat\amon as you don't have to bin of stacks of crap(loot you don't want\can't sell)?
ShootsBlues McAwoxer
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-04-18 12:01:11 UTC
If they wait til a later date to loot at the other items then there will be 8 regions of almost entirely useless DED sites for at least several months.... I hope CCP realizes this...
ShootsBlues McAwoxer
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-04-18 12:03:42 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
wait, am I getting this wrong but that sounds like drones are just going to have bounties now and no loot.
Doesn't that make it a more interesting place to rat\amon as you don't have to bin of stacks of crap(loot you don't want\can't sell)?


The whole point of running these sites is the pay out from the X-type A-type ect loot from every other deadspace faction... drones were different in that they dropped mineral loot. If they no longer drop mineral loot and have bounties like every other deadspace faction, should they not also get A-type/X-type ect loot drops like every other faction gets from their DED sites?
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#6 - 2012-04-18 12:08:37 UTC
Shopping malls

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-04-18 12:34:43 UTC
ShootsBlues McAwoxer wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
wait, am I getting this wrong but that sounds like drones are just going to have bounties now and no loot.
Doesn't that make it a more interesting place to rat\amon as you don't have to bin of stacks of crap(loot you don't want\can't sell)?


The whole point of running these sites is the pay out from the X-type A-type ect loot from every other deadspace faction... drones were different in that they dropped mineral loot. If they no longer drop mineral loot and have bounties like every other deadspace faction, should they not also get A-type/X-type ect loot drops like every other faction gets from their DED sites?


Maybe, aren't those drops chance based though?

What would be the income difference in a regular "this site will give this much every time" payout from the new drone ones to the usual "there might be a shiny drop... maybe" ones?
Basing that over a day of running them.
ShootsBlues McAwoxer
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-04-18 12:41:03 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:


Maybe, aren't those drops chance based though?

What would be the income difference in a regular "this site will give this much every time" payout from the new drone ones to the usual "there might be a shiny drop... maybe" ones?
Basing that over a day of running them.



Well thats the whole point I'm trying to get at. Every site has bounties for their rats in addition to the chance, however great or small, of a loot drop. Unless the proper changes are made before this patch goes live, you're going to have a situation where drone sites only have bounties and no loot drops, thus making them far less valuable than the pith or gist sites that can drop a billion isk worth of loot at a time. I don't live in the drone regions so its not a terribly big deal to me, but it seems rather messed up to not bring the drone site payouts into line with that of the other sites.
Deathwing Reborn
#9 - 2012-04-18 13:16:16 UTC
I argued this repeatadly in the Dev Blog. But Greyscale basicly said to paraphrase.

We know that drones not having loot might not be the best way to do it and we know it has been a long time that we have known about drone faction loot not being worth anything. But, for right now there are better things we can spend out time on than fix drones.

He went on to add, We do not believe that any drone region players will want to salvage and loot after drones recieve bounties so we are not going to spend the time needed to build loot tables. We hope that all the people that are paying for a second account for salvaging retain their subscription but honestly we really don't mind if they do.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-04-18 13:16:21 UTC
ShootsBlues McAwoxer wrote:
I am curious what exactly CCP plans to do with the drone deadspace sites (independence, radiance, ect.) after the drones are given a bounty. Will there be a new class of deadspace loot along with a redesign of these sites? Are they going to be removed completely and some other already existing deadspace faction/loot will appear in these sites? Or, the one I see as most likely, are we going to be stuck with a whole bunch of useless DED sites with no deadspace loot, no alloys, and laughably small bounty amounts that make them not worth the time to run?

Seeing as how there was no mention of how they would be dealing with this in the dev blogs, I am somewhat worried that this will not be properly addressed before the patch is thrown up.



About what they will or not do you'll have to wait for Dev blog to have all information, just like all of us who are such curious about this than you are.

Several ideas were exposed, from bounty to specific tags, specific loot like drones etc so surprise surprise.

If you're a good boy they will tell you soon Lol
Deathwing Reborn
#11 - 2012-04-18 13:19:07 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
ShootsBlues McAwoxer wrote:
I am curious what exactly CCP plans to do with the drone deadspace sites (independence, radiance, ect.) after the drones are given a bounty. Will there be a new class of deadspace loot along with a redesign of these sites? Are they going to be removed completely and some other already existing deadspace faction/loot will appear in these sites? Or, the one I see as most likely, are we going to be stuck with a whole bunch of useless DED sites with no deadspace loot, no alloys, and laughably small bounty amounts that make them not worth the time to run?

Seeing as how there was no mention of how they would be dealing with this in the dev blogs, I am somewhat worried that this will not be properly addressed before the patch is thrown up.



About what they will or not do you'll have to wait for Dev blog to have all information, just like all of us who are such curious about this than you are.

Several ideas were exposed, from bounty to specific tags, specific loot like drones etc so surprise surprise.

If you're a good boy they will tell you soon Lol



No it is already in the Dev blog. They are not going to do ANYTHING. They are simply removing drone alloys(giving drones no loot tables) and adding bounties.
ShootsBlues McAwoxer
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-04-18 13:21:46 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:


About what they will or not do you'll have to wait for Dev blog to have all information, just like all of us who are such curious about this than you are.

Several ideas were exposed, from bounty to specific tags, specific loot like drones etc so surprise surprise.

If you're a good boy they will tell you soon Lol


I thought the dev blog on this had already come out: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28587

It doesnt address it. I think there is some confusion. I don't care about whether belt rats drop t1 crap. I'm talking about the Independence/Radiance/ect. sites and whether or not they will begin dropping deadspace loot. Gist 8/10s, for example, drop B-type BS-sized gear. Will there be an equivalent built in drop for drone 8/10 sites to begin dropping B-type BS-sized loot, or are the drone 8/10s just going to have bounties with no loot whatsoever thus making them far inferior to the pith/gist/ect 8/10s?
Deathwing Reborn
#13 - 2012-04-18 13:28:59 UTC
ShootsBlues McAwoxer wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:


About what they will or not do you'll have to wait for Dev blog to have all information, just like all of us who are such curious about this than you are.

Several ideas were exposed, from bounty to specific tags, specific loot like drones etc so surprise surprise.

If you're a good boy they will tell you soon Lol


I thought the dev blog on this had already come out: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28587

It doesnt address it. I think there is some confusion. I don't care about whether belt rats drop t1 crap. I'm talking about the Independence/Radiance/ect. sites and whether or not they will begin dropping deadspace loot. Gist 8/10s, for example, drop B-type BS-sized gear. Will there be an equivalent built in drop for drone 8/10 sites to begin dropping B-type BS-sized loot, or are the drone 8/10s just going to have bounties with no loot whatsoever thus making them far inferior to the pith/gist/ect 8/10s?



And as I stated before. Greyscale already said that they are not changing anything but removing any drones that had alloys, if they have something other than alloys I would guess they would still drop that item, and giving them bounties. I honestly do not think they thought this through other than Soundwave giving the order give drones bounties and remove alloys. And in typical CCP fashion they followed his order to the letter and we get screwed over by it becasue they don't think about all of the other things their decisions might impact.
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-04-18 13:32:46 UTC
I usually poopoo on everyone crying on GD, but this was actually kind of a **** move. They should have done the whole deal because now it could be literally years before this gets looked at again.
Creanda
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#15 - 2012-04-18 13:36:22 UTC
What am I missing here? As someone who ran sites and plexes in Drone space...

Old
- All drones drop alloy's, you move to hs, refine, sell minerals, get you risk. Pain in arse.
- Overseers you get t2 salvage from, and drop the seldom used drone parts
- End Overseers drop the "xx Tier Overseers" loot that you sell for tens to hundreds of millions in HS.

New
- Exactly the same with drone parts and overseers effects.
- Bounties instead of alloy, making it 1,000,000 times easier.

So while named drops would be nice, nothing is changing except I don't have to JF out alloys weekly to get my isk...
Deathwing Reborn
#16 - 2012-04-18 13:39:59 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Deathwing Reborn wrote:
So I have to write this all again because the forums just failed me again.

First of all Greyscale I would like to thank you for answering my hard questions on behalf of alot of people. I would however like to rebuttle some of your points here.

1. "we anticipate that a large proportion of drone ratters won't be bothering to scoop loot anyway " You do realize that ~70% (im guessing) of people in the drone regions have alt accounts for salvaging because of alloys right? I personally planned on keeping mine to salvage and loot just because that is what I am use to. If you would like for all of us to cancel our second account and leave you with who knows how many less subs, removing loot from drones is probably the fastest way to do it.

2. "so it wouldn't be a huge amount of extra stuff;" It is still "stuff" that you are not giving us the option to. You say that you are bringing Drone regions in line with the other factions in Null yet you are starting us out at a disadvantage. If creating a loot table is too time consuming or difficult then increase our bounites by say ~5%? Then at least we will have the same opprotunity for income as everyone else.

3. "This is a long-standing problem with drones that isn't really related to this issue" You just proved our point and why we are fighting so hard to make sure you do this right now. If it has taken this long and nothing has been done about these obvious flaws then we all know it won't get fixed in the future. That is why you need to take the time now that you are addressing the drone lands in order to fix these issues.

4. "which need some love, but which *are* nevertheless present" This I have two viewpoints on. One, before this patch drone faction spawns "sentiants" were 80% of the time worth 10-60k yes thats thousands not millions. They were worth LESS than a normal drone battleship unless they dropped capacitor consoles. Two, at least now they will have a static isk value set to them that will at least make them worth more than a normal battleship But what about the 100+million mods that other regions get? We still get nothing but parts for drones which we have to make that are worth mabe 1 million a peice.

5."The sec status changes aren't a re-randomization" Thank you so much for clarifing but I just want to clarify a bit more. So for sake of argument lets look at Cobalt edge that didnt change. So if I had a -1 system today after the patch it will remain -1 and in other regions if I had a -1 system it might be a -8 or some other relevant number that was scaled "upwards". This is how I read it but we have all been worrying that our -1 system might become a -0.1 system after the patch and viseversa for a -0.1 becoming a -0.9 or something.

I just want to thank you again Greyscale for finally answering the hard questions even though you still need to look at changing your plans in my and many others opinions. My post was more thought out and better written but the forums ate my post so I had to rewrite so I appologize.


In order:

- We'd very much *like* for everyone to keep their extra accounts subscribed, but we *expect* that many people will decide that it's not worth the effort of dual-boxing for ratting/anoms once their targets have bounties. That's just a consequence of the bulk of the wealth no longer being tied up in alloys.

- I agree that we're talking about 5-10% income at best, and again we're still of the opinion that this is probably balanced out nicely by the generally superior truesec values Smile

- I take the point that things sometimes take a long time to come to pass, but we're still not seeing that the loot issue is something that really needs addressing. We'd rather spend the time it'd take to add a bunch of loot tables fixing something else more pressing with the rogue drone.

- We totally agree that the drone commanders aren't worth what they should be, but again that's an old issue that's not directly impacted by these changes.

- Let me explain it this way: if you order all the sites in a given region today by sec value, they should (I think) keep that order after the change. This plus the image in the blog should let you ballpark the shifts you're likely to see. The changes are on Singularity if you want to look them up - system sec should be listed in the system tooltip so you can check the whole thing out from the map view.


I think this reply to my post is about all you need to see how well they think of Drone regions. Oh FYI the last statement here about security status not being rerandomized, I have unconfirmed reports that they WERE randomized on SiSi and has since been removed. Who knows what they are doing becuase they deem dronelands not worthy of information or time to fix right.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-04-18 13:40:04 UTC
ShootsBlues McAwoxer wrote:
[quote=Tanya Powers]

About what they will or not do you'll have to wait for Dev blog to have all information, just like all of us who are such curious about this than you are

Several ideas were exposed, from bounty to specific tags, specific loot like drones etc so surprise surprise

If you're a good boy they will tell you soon Lol[/quote

I thought the dev blog on this had already come out: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2858

It doesnt address it. I think there is some confusion. I don't care about whether belt rats drop t1 crap. I'm talking about the Independence/Radiance/ect. sites and whether or not they will begin dropping deadspace loot. Gist 8/10s, for example, drop B-type BS-sized gear. Will there be an equivalent built in drop for drone 8/10 sites to begin dropping B-type BS-sized loot, or are the drone 8/10s just going to have bounties with no loot whatsoever thus making them far inferior to the pith/gist/ect 8/10s?



Expect several changes to that region and those mobs, it's close to impossible if not really stupid just to take alloys away and give nothing in exchange to those players playing there.

Short story: why couldn't rogue drones be the only non faction mobs dropping randomly x- or a-type mods with no faction distinction or regular meta mods? -after all everyone wants to kill those even pirate factions, and after all it's not like if it's already completely stupid faction ravens drop tachyons and armor plates, right?

The if you were used to salvage your wrecks you can keep it, those drones drop nice tritanium bars and other components.
ShootsBlues McAwoxer
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-04-18 13:42:14 UTC
Creanda wrote:
What am I missing here? As someone who ran sites and plexes in Drone space...

Old
- All drones drop alloy's, you move to hs, refine, sell minerals, get you risk. Pain in arse.
- Overseers you get t2 salvage from, and drop the seldom used drone parts
- End Overseers drop the "xx Tier Overseers" loot that you sell for tens to hundreds of millions in HS.

New
- Exactly the same with drone parts and overseers effects.
- Bounties instead of alloy, making it 1,000,000 times easier.

So while named drops would be nice, nothing is changing except I don't have to JF out alloys weekly to get my isk...


What you're missing is that while drones would only have overseer effects and bounties, equivalent sites have overseer effect, bounties, and deadspace loot drop. Before the isk made from alloys offset the lack of deadspace loot. Drone sites will now be significantly weaker than other faction sites.

Like I said before, I don't live in drone space so I really don't give a ****, I just figured someone should point this out to CCP while there's still a chance to do something about it before the patch.
Deathwing Reborn
#19 - 2012-04-18 13:48:55 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
ShootsBlues McAwoxer wrote:
[quote=Tanya Powers]

About what they will or not do you'll have to wait for Dev blog to have all information, just like all of us who are such curious about this than you are

Several ideas were exposed, from bounty to specific tags, specific loot like drones etc so surprise surprise

If you're a good boy they will tell you soon Lol[/quote

I thought the dev blog on this had already come out: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2858

It doesnt address it. I think there is some confusion. I don't care about whether belt rats drop t1 crap. I'm talking about the Independence/Radiance/ect. sites and whether or not they will begin dropping deadspace loot. Gist 8/10s, for example, drop B-type BS-sized gear. Will there be an equivalent built in drop for drone 8/10 sites to begin dropping B-type BS-sized loot, or are the drone 8/10s just going to have bounties with no loot whatsoever thus making them far inferior to the pith/gist/ect 8/10s?



Expect several changes to that region and those mobs, it's close to impossible if not really stupid just to take alloys away and give nothing in exchange to those players playing there.

Short story: why couldn't rogue drones be the only non faction mobs dropping randomly x- or a-type mods with no faction distinction or regular meta mods? -after all everyone wants to kill those even pirate factions, and after all it's not like if it's already completely stupid faction ravens drop tachyons and armor plates, right?

The if you were used to salvage your wrecks you can keep it, those drones drop nice tritanium bars and other components.



" it's close to impossible if not really stupid just to take alloys away and give nothing in exchange to those players playing there." I completely agree that it is really stupid but if you read the quote from the Dev blog that is exactly what they are doing.
Rand Caine
Moon Takers
#20 - 2012-04-18 14:02:15 UTC
ccp seems not to care at all if they cant give the effort to fix it right the first time then they should just leave it alone
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