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Does the Nex store belong in the sandbox that is EVE?
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Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#1 - 2011-09-28 02:39:40 UTC
When looking at what was meant to be included with Incarna based on what was told to the playerbase about Ambulation, Incarna at present has become a very poor cousin indeed. Features like clothing and ship painting that were to be produced by players, would have added to the sandbox, but now they are a shadow of what they were supposed to be. Even the fact that they are now indestructable has made them meaningless in the sandbox.

CCP has also now removed the potential for this being another avenue for crafters in the game. The other thing is I like probably many other players have seen people on other game sites talk about how they just like to craft in games and a full blown realization of what was to be Ambulation would have enabled these individuals to fully utilize the WiS environment. And I for one wouldn't care less if they never left the station because they are adding numbers and may eventually find the other parts of the game aren't so bad, but now they will not even try the game.

Other things talked about being added with Ambulation like loading your whole CQ into your ship would have made for some intense moments and pirates, etc would have been dancing a merry old jig if they popped a ship carrying one. Risk vs reward, where o'where did you go with Incarna.

Ultimately if CCP was absolutely adamnent about adding a cash shop, why not at least add something to the sandbox and sell blueprints for the clothing and ship painting.

This whole 'but we want to make the players feel special' marketing hype I find quite amusing ... really, is there that many gullible people playing EVE that actually believe this is the reason the cash shop was added? So paying $70 for a monocle for example is supposed to make you feel special, no I think having something that you have worked hard to acquire through gameplay would be much more meaningful.

I actually find it difficult to believe that any of the devs at CCP other than the ones running the Nex / Marketing areas could stand there and look me in the eye and tell me the cash shop is of any benefit to the players of EVE.

So please explain to me again what exactly the Nex Store has added to this sandbox game?


Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#2 - 2011-09-28 03:22:34 UTC
it has, simply put, added more options for your character.

therefore adding sand to the box... not removing it.

yes, it's optional, yes, it is a form of MT... but that is the way the whole industry is going at the moment.

things change, games evolve, people can learn to deal with it, or emoragequit, doesn't bother me either way.

at least CCP haven't done what EQ / DDO / Champions Online etc have done and limited the gameplay based content to those who pay for the MT stuff. hell, EvE can be played for free, has free expansions, and you can play everything, even endgame stuff, without shelling out a single penny.

seems fair to me.

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
Myxx
The Scope
#3 - 2011-09-28 03:37:51 UTC
No, imho
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#4 - 2011-09-28 03:50:20 UTC

They need to be able to add blueprints so players can create these items from "polytextiles" and the like.


I don't have much more to say on the matter than - The NeX store is overpriced and in itself with its current pricing scheme is currently only a function for bigotry, segregation and absurd egoism because it doesn't serve or attempt to cater to the average player.

Where I am.
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#5 - 2011-09-28 04:08:03 UTC
iyammarrok wrote:
it has, simply put, added more options for your character..


Perhaps you should look at the old character creator and then come back and tell me we have more options now, hmm.

Quote:
therefore adding sand to the box... not removing it.


So your saying a sandbox element is something that you purchase from a cash shop and then it magically appears without any player intervention. You sure your not getting EVE confused with a themepark game.

Quote:
yes, it's optional, yes, it is a form of MT... but that is the way the whole industry is going at the moment.


Interesting, I wonder why SWTOR and Prime:BFD aren't using that model then if it's the new mesiah of pricing models. Maybe it's because they believe in their product. The games that I see coming out with the MT model are ones that don't believe they will get the subscriber base and have nothing to draw a lot of people to the game.

Why do you think EVE has the playerbase it has now compared to when it started? Because it drew people to it by being a good game.

Quote:
things change, games evolve, people can learn to deal with it, or emoragequit, doesn't bother me either way.


Yes things do change, but when a company has a paradign shift in their thinking and start to look at themepark games for their pricing strategies, then you have to be a little concerned for the integrity of the sandbox game they produce.

Quote:
at least CCP haven't done what EQ / DDO / Champions Online etc have done and limited the gameplay based content to those who pay for the MT stuff. hell, EvE can be played for free, has free expansions, and you can play everything, even endgame stuff, without shelling out a single penny.

seems fair to me.


Unlike those other games CCP still gets paid regardless of whether you as an individual play for free with Plex. In each of those games you can pay a subscription and you get a quota of points to spend in their cash shops or get everything included, so what's your point? They are not like EVE.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#6 - 2011-09-28 04:09:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aramatheia
Bloodpetal wrote:

They need to be able to add blueprints so players can create these items from "polytextiles" and the like.


I don't have much more to say on the matter than - The NeX store is overpriced and in itself with its current pricing scheme is currently only a function for bigotry, segregation and absurd egoism because it doesn't serve or attempt to cater to the average player.



But i think the average player doesnt care about real world trading, paying dollars for pixels or whatever its called. I think the amount of solid 100% pro nex is equal to the 100% anti nex. I personally am in the dont care field. If there was ever something added at a price i could live with i might consider it. But i wouldnt scream if it was too high, or existed in the first place.

I think as long as CCP keeps it to purely visual items with zero impact on gameplay there is no reason for people to be up in arms about it. Its a cash cow for the people with cash to cow around with. Personally i'd rather have pizza one weekend than buy a eve pixel shirt but i dont see people bitching at me for eating a pizza?

Quote:
Interesting, I wonder why SWTOR and Prime:BFD aren't using that model then if it's the new mesiah of pricing models. Maybe it's because they believe in their product. The games that I see coming out with the MT model are ones that don't believe they will get the subscriber base and have nothing to draw a lot of people to the game.


World of warcraft (shudder) has had various forms of cash for services for a long long time since i started playing it in 2007 (quit in 2011 hooray!) That had utterly no impact on its growth and it was at the 12m subs mark at near the point i left. Thats hardly a sign of a company struggling for numbers (and wow is crappy now compared to back when i first played). It was effectively vanity items though one could say the mounts saved a player a whopping 200ish ingame money but the money in that game... well you trip and earn 100 gold so hardly a gamebreaker
Jonni Favorite
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-09-28 05:04:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonni Favorite
Aramatheia wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:

They need to be able to add blueprints so players can create these items from "polytextiles" and the like.


I don't have much more to say on the matter than - The NeX store is overpriced and in itself with its current pricing scheme is currently only a function for bigotry, segregation and absurd egoism because it doesn't serve or attempt to cater to the average player.



But i think the average player doesnt care about real world trading, paying dollars for pixels or whatever its called. I think the amount of solid 100% pro nex is equal to the 100% anti nex. I personally am in the dont care field. If there was ever something added at a price i could live with i might consider it. But i wouldnt scream if it was too high, or existed in the first place.

I think as long as CCP keeps it to purely visual items with zero impact on gameplay there is no reason for people to be up in arms about it. Its a cash cow for the people with cash to cow around with. Personally i'd rather have pizza one weekend than buy a eve pixel shirt but i dont see people bitching at me for eating a pizza?


Awww, I popped your cherry =P

Edit: Oh no, I didn't. You ****!!
Tyrnaeg en Varche
#8 - 2011-09-28 06:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrnaeg en Varche
Just a humble reminder: you are not a member of the board of directors of CCP, or whatever they have to make corporate decisions. You also do not own CCP, the company.

So, why the hell do you think you can tell them what to do?

"Because I PAY $15/account" - you would answer, so just stop paying if you really don't like the new business-plan of CCP.

e.g. When i go to the hospital and i do not like the decoration, i cannot make a fuss about it, yelling at the stuff to change colors in the room and put my favorite abstract paintings on the walls, because i am gonna pay $$$.

Also, re: sandbox. NeX items can be bought and sold, traded across the world, play market-games with them, wear them to draw attention, wear them to just feel good looking at your avatar, etc. So, yes, it is a part of the sandbox imho.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#9 - 2011-09-28 06:10:14 UTC
YES NOW STOP WITH THESE WASTEFUL TOPICS!

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Written Word
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-09-28 06:10:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Written Word
Look at this way, CCP are the ultimate griefers.

The NeX store existing brings so many delicious tears all over the forums, and it even brings them some bonus income as well. Win/Win

They need their idiot and whiner tears, just like the rest of it. Keep it in!!
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#11 - 2011-09-28 07:18:24 UTC
Tyrnaeg en Varche wrote:
Just a humble reminder: you are not a member of the board of directors of CCP, or whatever they have to make corporate decisions. You also do not own CCP, the company.

No, really, thanks for clearing that up. And here I was getting ready for the next board meeting.

Quote:
So, why the hell do you think you can tell them what to do?

Care to explain where in my post I have told them what to do? You know the part where I say "you will do this now", because I seem to have missed it.

Quote:
"Because I PAY $15/account" - you would answer, so just stop paying if you really don't like the new business-plan of CCP.

So glad I have you to speak for me. Anything else you'd like to attribute to me saying.

Quote:
e.g. When i go to the hospital and i do not like the decoration, i cannot make a fuss about it, yelling at the stuff to change colors in the room and put my favorite abstract paintings on the walls, because i am gonna pay $$$.

I'm sure this analogy was going somewhere ... I'm just not sure where.

Quote:
Also, re: sandbox. NeX items can be bought and sold, traded across the world, play market-games with them, wear them to draw attention, wear them to just feel good looking at your avatar, etc. So, yes, it is a part of the sandbox imho.

It's interesting how you believe you are entitled to an opinion, but you think I am not.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-09-28 07:37:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
EVE is sandbox but not as you think it is. You can chose from designed "things" which has been created by game developers.

So if you have to ask if Nex store belonge to EVE. You have to ask if any module/ship belong to EVE. Because both are generally designed outside player reach.

In that note : Even real life is not sandbox.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#13 - 2011-09-28 09:52:54 UTC
Aramatheia wrote:

They need to be able to add blueprints so players can create these items from "polytextiles" and the like.

Bloodpetal wrote:

But i think the average player doesnt care about real world trading, paying dollars for pixels or whatever its called. I think the amount of solid 100% pro nex is equal to the 100% anti nex. I personally am in the dont care field. If there was ever something added at a price i could live with i might consider it. But i wouldnt scream if it was too high, or existed in the first place.


I think he was refering to adding BPOs would make the NeX store more inline with Eve being a sandbox. Having items just pop out of thin air isn't very good.



Quote:


World of warcraft (shudder) has had various forms of cash for services for a long long time since i started playing it in 2007 (quit in 2011 hooray!) That had utterly no impact on its growth and it was at the 12m subs mark at near the point i left. Thats hardly a sign of a company struggling for numbers (and wow is crappy now compared to back when i first played). It was effectively vanity items though one could say the mounts saved a player a whopping 200ish ingame money but the money in that game... well you trip and earn 100 gold so hardly a gamebreaker


Like many before you have tried comparing Eve to WoW doesn't work. They are 2 completely different game styles. Adding in even gold ammo style MTs into WoW would have a very little overall impact on most peoples game play. However adding the same thing into Eve would have a devastating impact on a majority of players. Also WoW has actually seen a impact when it comes to subs, they recently lost ~1m subs and hit a plateau prior, it might have been a reason they recently went F2P(up to lvl20) in order to try and boost sales. Not only that WoW didn't start doing MTs until late in its life span. I don't actually remember what year I stopped playing(was in between Burning Crusade release and WoTLK) but they didn't have MTs during that time frame.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#14 - 2011-09-28 10:02:53 UTC
I have an idea, how about we think of something else to talk about! Lol
J Kunjeh
#15 - 2011-09-28 10:04:34 UTC
I don't know...all I do I know for sure is that I love my snappy military digs.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#16 - 2011-09-28 10:37:39 UTC
I actually couldn't care less about the store as we aren't even able to meet each other's avatars - and that may still take quite some time before we may, if at all.

Btw this is one of those threads that could use a poll option.
Why don't we have one, even the most basic and simple forum has it!?
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-09-28 13:39:37 UTC
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
iyammarrok wrote:
it has, simply put, added more options for your character..


Perhaps you should look at the old character creator and then come back and tell me we have more options now, hmm.
Yes, we have more options now. Perhaps you should get a clue.
Quote:
therefore adding sand to the box... not removing it.


So your saying a sandbox element is something that you purchase from a cash shop and then it magically appears without any player intervention. You sure your not getting EVE confused with a themepark game.
Yes. Get over it already. Anything bought with AUR on NeX can be sold for ISK on the market. Nothing has changed. Just because you cant make a pair of pants out of mining products doesn't mean it is bad.

Quote:
yes, it's optional, yes, it is a form of MT... but that is the way the whole industry is going at the moment.


Interesting, I wonder why SWTOR and Prime:BFD aren't using that model then if it's the new mesiah of pricing models. Maybe it's because they believe in their product. The games that I see coming out with the MT model are ones that don't believe they will get the subscriber base and have nothing to draw a lot of people to the game.
Maybe because they just haven't gotten around to it yet. WoW has microtransactions. Maybe you should know what you are talking about before you open your mouth?

Why do you think EVE has the playerbase it has now compared to when it started? Because it drew people to it by being a good game.
Yeah...ok.Roll

Quote:
things change, games evolve, people can learn to deal with it, or emoragequit, doesn't bother me either way.


Yes things do change, but when a company has a paradign shift in their thinking and start to look at themepark games for their pricing strategies, then you have to be a little concerned for the integrity of the sandbox game they produce.
So CCP want's to make money and they look to other experienced MMO's for ideas...this is bad how? How is this a paradigm shift? How has the sandbox changed? It isn't...it hasn't...you still have every option how had before and more. Including the option to ignore NeX and CQ.





Well that was fun.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-09-28 13:41:11 UTC
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:


Quote:
at least CCP haven't done what EQ / DDO / Champions Online etc have done and limited the gameplay based content to those who pay for the MT stuff. hell, EvE can be played for free, has free expansions, and you can play everything, even endgame stuff, without shelling out a single penny.

seems fair to me.


Unlike those other games CCP still gets paid regardless of whether you as an individual play for free with Plex. In each of those games you can pay a subscription and you get a quota of points to spend in their cash shops or get everything included, so what's your point? They are not like EVE.
Oh hey look! Free AUR given to the players by CCP! I wonder how that happened? I guess this is also CCP's fault for making a system that wins for everybody but the RMT bots. Oh and actually, no...not all of those games give you a quota of points to use each month. Some do, some don't. Again...get your facts straight. One thing you are correct about...they are not EvE. Now...get over it.


Had to make a second post because you quote too much.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#19 - 2011-09-28 14:00:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
no I think having something that you have worked hard to acquire through gameplay would be much more meaningful.


Hi.
I have acquired a monocle through gameplay.
Thank you for recognizing that it is meaningful.

J Kunjeh wrote:
I don't know...all I do I know for sure is that I love my snappy military digs.


ZZ Top wrote:
E'ry girl crazy bouta sharp dressed man

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#20 - 2011-09-28 14:29:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Aramatheia
Brooks Puuntai wrote:


Like many before you have tried comparing Eve to WoW doesn't work. They are 2 completely different game styles. Adding in even gold ammo style MTs into WoW would have a very little overall impact on most peoples game play. However adding the same thing into Eve would have a devastating impact on a majority of players. Also WoW has actually seen a impact when it comes to subs, they recently lost ~1m subs and hit a plateau prior, it might have been a reason they recently went F2P(up to lvl20) in order to try and boost sales. Not only that WoW didn't start doing MTs until late in its life span. I don't actually remember what year I stopped playing(was in between Burning Crusade release and WoTLK) but they didn't have MTs during that time frame.


I wasnt so much comparing the 2, but as it stands neither game have true advantage giving RL cash store items. And yes there has been an exodus out of WoW of late, thats because wrath of the lich king was dragged out at least a year too long and cataclysm sucked (i know i played both). Thats why WoW is no longer enjoying the thunderous boom it had a couple years ago (around the start of wotlk).

Also technically you could pay real money for services with wow since at least when i started playing, true it wasnt till sometime in wotlk that the pets and sparkly horse came into being and the "blizzard store" came to being properly. Im not sure what sort of paid services ccp offers besides plex (roughly translated aurum). But for as long as i know you could give blizz money for character moves and so forth /shrug. <-- in fact that was in a way game breaking. Just research the whole gates of AQ thing where big guilds realm jumped over and over farming all the 1 per realm mounts!

Also if you could pay cash for top end raid stuff without using it the top end raiders would rage, much like alot of people got pretty peeved when the nex store rocked up in eve (but it was selling junk not faction ships!). As long as any games shop sells crap people dont really have any reason to rage over it. I remain comfortably in my whatever zone regarding the nex but i'll lean to the opposition if they do add pay to win. Cause that is crap and not good fun at all!
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