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Don't improve exhumer tanks, improve their movement

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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#21 - 2012-04-12 23:33:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Skydell wrote:
Not sure if you know better and are just playing the propaganda card or if you really believe that.


I lost a Sacrilege yesterday because I wasn't paying attention, but if I was paying attention I wouldn't have. Ed: before people check my killboards, it was to rats because I flew through an incursion system. Yeah, I'm dumb.

Hulk pilots losing their Hulks because of not paying attention is okay, but losing Hulks despite paying attention is not (especially considering how hard it is to pay attention to mining).

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#22 - 2012-04-12 23:43:16 UTC
They should buff destroyers to hold 27500 cubic meters of cargo.

Then mining would be perfect.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Samuel Moore Walton
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#23 - 2012-04-12 23:45:05 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
They should buff destroyers to hold 27500 cubic meters of cargo.

Then mining would be perfect.


Didn't you used to be black?
Gaia Ma'chello
Photosynth
#24 - 2012-04-12 23:56:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaia Ma'chello
The problem with mining aligned is you fly past the roids. To insta-warp you got to be at 75% of your top speed. Ive wondered how feasible it would be for 2 hulks to each fit 2 webs and keep each other webbed. Then both align and their speed is so low that they stay by the roids for a long time. When trouble warps in, both hit warp. Would both warp? Or would the timing leave one behind? Would a fleet warp insure both warp?
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#25 - 2012-04-13 00:16:34 UTC
Samuel Moore Walton wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
They should buff destroyers to hold 27500 cubic meters of cargo.

Then mining would be perfect.


Didn't you used to be black?


I still am.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-04-13 00:49:30 UTC
Gaia Ma'chello wrote:
The problem with mining aligned is you fly past the roids. To insta-warp you got to be at 75% of your top speed. Ive wondered how feasible it would be for 2 hulks to each fit 2 webs and keep each other webbed. Then both align and their speed is so low that they stay by the roids for a long time. When trouble warps in, both hit warp. Would both warp? Or would the timing leave one behind? Would a fleet warp insure both warp?


2 Hulks in a fleet, same corp you could do that with a fleet warp but when we need to brainstorm extreme evasion tactics it's simpler to just walk away. Let them pay 400 mill for a Battle Cruiser. I don't care.
Endeavour Starfleet
#27 - 2012-04-13 00:51:49 UTC
They don't need more "Tank" or "movement" they need buffer. They need a HUGE boost to structure HP. Structure boost means it will take more than a few million to alpha these ships. And will force people to fit a damage control.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-04-13 01:47:18 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
If they were more agile i think they'd stop feeling like industry ships.


you mean you wouldnt get as many ganks

I get it

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Paws n Claws Collective
#29 - 2012-04-13 01:54:59 UTC
I keep seeing this same tired old bull crap about being aligned.
This only matters if you are alligned and moving.

I am sure this is just repeated as gosple but, for once, do yourself a favor ...
Take a Hulk and an Orca, sitting still in a belt and aligned (not moving) toward their favorite station.
Hit warp (or dock) ... start stopwatch and see how long it really takes.

Now, do the same thing but begin the Hulk and Orca facing 180 degrees out from station.
Hit warp and start your stopwatch ... note the diference.

Sorry, not enough to get away from a gank.

Thus endeth the lesson.

Moral of the Story - improve the tank of Exhumers.

Nothing clever at this time.
Jorma Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-04-13 02:30:39 UTC
Or learn to use d-scan and monitor local. Its not hard when you see like 5 catalysts show up on dscan or a bunch of pods with an orca that they're setting up.
Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-04-13 02:39:09 UTC
I don't see the issue with decreasing the align time on a hulk. It holds less than an industrial, is meant for mining, and would really help those who warp to belts and back to dock for safe mining. I know bots do this as well... But you can't help miners without helping them to unfortunately. Though I am surprised CCP hasn't completely eliminated them yet.

Something clever
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-04-13 02:46:31 UTC
Nope, tank is the way to go. IF you make the hulk very tanky, you can have hulks last long enough for back-up to arrive. Maybe we'll actually get hulks mining in more dangerous space then - like they were intended for.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#33 - 2012-04-13 02:55:45 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
If they were more agile i think they'd stop feeling like industry ships.


you mean you wouldnt get as many ganks

I get it


I've actually only ever lost one Mackinaw as far as mining type ships go, and it was because i was semi-afk ice mining while in FW. Lol Got away with it for about 2 days before someone found me.

For ore mining i'm always at the keyboard keeping an eye open for threats, and i only use jet cans when i feel like trolling wannabe pirates. So i find it relatively safe.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Aggressive Nutmeg
#34 - 2012-04-13 03:14:39 UTC
Nick Bison wrote:
I keep seeing this same tired old bull crap about being aligned.
This only matters if you are alligned and moving.

I am sure this is just repeated as gosple but, for once, do yourself a favor ...
Take a Hulk and an Orca, sitting still in a belt and aligned (not moving) toward their favorite station.
Hit warp (or dock) ... start stopwatch and see how long it really takes.

Now, do the same thing but begin the Hulk and Orca facing 180 degrees out from station.
Hit warp and start your stopwatch ... note the diference.

Sorry, not enough to get away from a gank.

Thus endeth the lesson.

Moral of the Story - improve the tank of Exhumers.

I think you'll find most people understand being aligned as including moving.

I don't mine any more, but if I did I'd probably set up safe spots at either end of a belt - if there isn't already a conveniently-positioned Warpto option. That way I could stay aligned and strafe the belt over and over again. If I wet my pants I warp to the safe I'm currently roughly aligned to.

My Orca would be sat still in the middle of the belt (assuming hisec).

Like I said, I don't mine anymore so I don't know if anything much has changed in the last 12mths.

No need to improve the tank of the Hulk. It's already massive for an industrial once you stick a Damage Controll II on. If you want to go silly, you can EFT over 35,000 EHP on a Hulk.

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
Aggressive Nutmeg
#35 - 2012-04-13 03:16:46 UTC
Taedrin wrote:
Nope, tank is the way to go. IF you make the hulk very tanky, you can have hulks last long enough for back-up to arrive. Maybe we'll actually get hulks mining in more dangerous space then - like they were intended for.

So basically you want an Orca with mining lasers.

It would be nice but it's not going to happen.

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#36 - 2012-04-13 04:07:40 UTC
Gaia Ma'chello wrote:
The problem with mining aligned is you fly past the roids. To insta-warp you got to be at 75% of your top speed. Ive wondered how feasible it would be for 2 hulks to each fit 2 webs and keep each other webbed. Then both align and their speed is so low that they stay by the roids for a long time. When trouble warps in, both hit warp. Would both warp? Or would the timing leave one behind? Would a fleet warp insure both warp?

The only problem mining aligned isn't getting out of range (cause if that happens you are doing it wrong), its the 4 seconds when you turn around.


I like to use 4 off grid BMs in a square (labeled of course). That way I only need to make 90 degree turns.

Yes it requires one to pay attention, however with such a method, it is rare to lose any mining ship (unless you encounter a ganker who isn't lazy... which happens once in a while).
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-04-13 13:16:19 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
If they become more agile, they would naturally have to have thinner EHP.


Cause they are balanced right now, or are you are scared of having to "not be an idiot" to get Hulk kills?

Notice I didn't say think. Cause that would be stupid. And buffed Hulk will still be gank bait.

You could DOUBLE it's EHP and the All Tank fits would still be gankable.

The fail fits would be amusingly easy to kill.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-04-13 13:18:01 UTC
Paragon Renegade wrote:
Keep the tank as-is or lower, and give them a reduced mass, better velocity multiplier and have them turn & accelerate faster.

You're (I lol) are a miner, you're/I'm the fat sheep of Eve online that nom all the useless grass and turn it into something useful. Your whole philosophy should revolve around getting in there, getting everything you can, then gtfo; you don't stay there and hope the shots of enemies and pirates bounce off. Really, the only reason exhumer/barge tanks are a contentious issue is because the stupid assholes can't haul ass out of there when the going gets tough. This would let people actually playing have a larger chance of survival (assuming aligned and ready to begin with, like a smart person) while letting the lazy, fat targets who step away for whatever reason die horribly as it should be.

My 2 cents :3


Interesting idea.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-04-13 13:23:07 UTC
These damn good ideas are why I secretly stalk your facebook. Bravo.

Dodixie > Hek
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-04-13 13:23:08 UTC
Samuel Moore Walton wrote:
I agree with this concept, in real life ore has no mass, it exists as electrons along electrical pathways. These electrons have effectively no mass in real life. Additionally titans also exist in real life as a sequence of electrons along a pathway thus titans should also receive the mass removal. Titans are fully capable of being used as a mining ship, so the change should apply to both exhumers and titans, its six of one or half dozen of the other.



In real life before you could ever gank a mining barge and play the kamikaze you really need to put serious effort, not a joke live eve gank.

No for OP, Exhumers need at least double EHP. I'm more about 80K Ehp with a regular fit.
You want to have fun and gank for lols you should pick 2 or 3 Tornados, just go there and shooot with friends and poof.

Your idea is to give them even less Ehp so what? -So i can go there and gank them with an arty Rifter instead of an arty Thrasher?

Bad ideas are bad.
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