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so the hulk WTF CCP?!!?!?

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Ai Shun
#721 - 2012-04-13 02:33:19 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
The circles are the result of the narrow focus of the debate, a narrow focus the gankbear community wishes to maintain.


a) And get almost the same yeild as C for less cost and Risk.
b) Consume somone else's time and share profits, which will profit below A or C.
c) Profit, because the hulk is a stupid ship in the current environment.

D) Other options where the circles end.


For one, I am not a ganker. You are welcome to look for any killmails related to me. (This is my main character) Hint - you won't find any. I am primarily an Industrialist, operating around low sec areas with a love of hauling cargo (Crane based), the odd mining trip and the odd bit of exploration for fun and seeing the universe. So, no, not a part of the gankbear community.

However, I can see that you are looking for a ship that can fill all roles or will be overpowered for what it is doing. You're essentially saying "I want full safety from gankers without having to sacrifice mining yield".

And that is just not going to happen. It is against every single principle of trading strengths for weaknesses in EVE Online. I was hoping to illustrate that for you with the overpowered ship discussion we had earlier (that you agreed with me on) but I'm guessing it's not sinking in yet.

Ah well, I tried. Good luck!
Ai Shun
#722 - 2012-04-13 02:33:44 UTC
Jorma Amatin wrote:
Also, try to AVOID the more populous mining systems. Because you have so many in local, you can't accurately use d-scan to check for gank-built ships (catalysts, tornados, hurricanes, etc). Also when people know they can count on hulks or covetors to sit almost afk, it really makes it attractive.

By the way the hulk's tank is compromised because the hardware is dedicated for the strip miners and ore processing. If you want a damn tank then go fit mining laser IIs on a Rokh and use that instead.


Have your second like.
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#723 - 2012-04-13 02:33:45 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
I think the hulk is actually a bit overpowered. It has too many low slots.


So it should have 1 low slot? Why?

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#724 - 2012-04-13 02:35:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…so how many 1600mm plates do you usually fit your Iterons with?


Too be fair, the iteron was never meant to be used in hostile environments. The hulk is designed for mining in hostile envrionments, as stated in the description. You really cant compare them.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Adunh Slavy
#725 - 2012-04-13 02:41:37 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:

For one, I am not a ganker. You are welcome to look for any killmails related to me. (This is my main character) Hint - you won't find any. I am primarily an Industrialist, operating around low sec areas with a love of hauling cargo (Crane based), the odd mining trip and the odd bit of exploration for fun and seeing the universe. So, no, not a part of the gankbear community.

However, I can see that you are looking for a ship that can fill all roles or will be overpowered for what it is doing. You're essentially saying "I want full safety from gankers without having to sacrifice mining yield".


You imply I make assumptions about you, then turn around and do the same in addition to making assumptions about my motives. Good luck with it.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Ai Shun
#726 - 2012-04-13 02:45:43 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:

For one, I am not a ganker. You are welcome to look for any killmails related to me. (This is my main character) Hint - you won't find any. I am primarily an Industrialist, operating around low sec areas with a love of hauling cargo (Crane based), the odd mining trip and the odd bit of exploration for fun and seeing the universe. So, no, not a part of the gankbear community.

However, I can see that you are looking for a ship that can fill all roles or will be overpowered for what it is doing. You're essentially saying "I want full safety from gankers without having to sacrifice mining yield".


You imply I make assumptions about you, then turn around and do the same in addition to making assumptions about my motives. Good luck with it.


Incorrect, unfortunately. I corrected your assumption. You are welcome to correct my assumption by static clearly what you want; because from reading your posts there is one message coming across. If that message is not correct, clarify.

Or you can keep on deflecting and jumping around the fringes.
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#727 - 2012-04-13 02:57:15 UTC
Roime wrote:
Why do people still insist on mining in hisec?

High security space is an area meant for new players to learn the game, and for people to come together to trade. The idea is clear, once you get the hang of the game, you move out of the noobzone and start playing.

If you can fly a T2 fitted Hulk, you should leave the cradle and join or form a corporation. There are no suicide gankers outside hisec, you can mine your heart out in corp/alliance mining operations in environments that you and your friends can control. Now is the the perfect time to leave cesspool behind and get rich.

Free your mind and your Hulk fill follow!


This would be true if EVE was linear. EVE is not, thus your statement makes no sense. SANDBOX!

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Adunh Slavy
#728 - 2012-04-13 03:20:08 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
However, I can see that you are looking for a ship that can fill all roles or will be overpowered for what it is doing. You're essentially saying "I want full safety from gankers without having to sacrifice mining yield".

Or you can keep on deflecting and jumping around the fringes.


Never once made that request, Sorry. Please continue to make your assumptions. As for my motives, you'll excuse me if I don't illuminate them for you. If you have a problem with that, get over it.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#729 - 2012-04-13 03:26:45 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:
Too be fair, the iteron was never meant to be used in hostile environments. The hulk is designed for mining in hostile envrionments, as stated in the description. You really cant compare them.
Yes you can. Both are non-combat ships for the industrial sector. What the flavour text says isn't particularly important (it says the Ferox is a very scary killing machine).
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#730 - 2012-04-13 03:32:08 UTC
In a few months the ferox will be... Replace range with rof a nd adf a low and mid slot...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#731 - 2012-04-13 03:34:11 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Severian Carnifex wrote:
Yea, by that amount (40%) increase tank of mining ships and we are happy.
We are back on what was 6 months ago.
That would make the buff pointless, so why on earth would they do something that stupid?

Adunh Slavy wrote:
Oh it's the players that are at fault
Since it's the player who chooses to make himself easier to kill, and then complain about how easy he is to kill, yes. It is 100% the idiot's fault.

Mystrak wrote:
No. The orca is under the capital ships section.
…and it requires no capital skills; no capital arrays; and CCP lists it in their ship charts as a “large” ship, together with the battleships (and, incidentally, the freighters). So no, the Orca isn't really a capship — the Rorqual is.



To a pilot, the Orca is a non cap ship

To a manufactuer, it is a cap ship

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#732 - 2012-04-13 03:36:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Montevius Williams wrote:
Too be fair, the iteron was never meant to be used in hostile environments. The hulk is designed for mining in hostile envrionments, as stated in the description. You really cant compare them.
Yes you can. Both are non-combat ships for the industrial sector. What the flavour text says isn't particularly important (it says the Ferox is a very scary killing machine).



Flavor text? lol

CCP needs to change the desciption. Its misleading.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#733 - 2012-04-13 03:49:59 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
We seem to be moving in circles. You can choose:

(a) Tank the ship at the expense of mining yield
(b) Have a friend or alt fly escort for you
(c) Fly a different hull that is safer, but yields less


(d) Fit for maximum yield, watch local, watch D-scan: remove your Hulk from space when suspicious looking people appear in local

I mined like this for one night. It was fun, and I was blissfully unaware that in the system one or two jumps away from me, about 100 Hulks died that day. I now have traversal bookmarks set up, so my Orca can move over the asteroid belt at 75% of maximum speed (1600mm armour plate is good for something after all) while the hulks vacuum up the rocks. This only works for max yield setups though, otherwise the rocks go out of range before I can suck them dry.

Of course, if CCP does something stupid to make mining "more interesting" my yield will go down and I'll probably start losing ships to gankers. Currently my attention is required, since the hulks can't hold two cycles worth of ore and complete a cycle in 2 minutes. Move ore, check targets, reactivate lasers on new rocks, check D-scan, repeat. Move ore, chuckle at a post on Twitter, swap back to realise there's a hurricane in my belt shooting the rats … wow, thank goodness that wasn't a ganker.

Of course, if I wasn't concerned about ISK/hr I could have an extra character sitting in a tengu with siege links and siege warfare mind link, and another character in a loki with skirmish links/mindlink, and another in a Legion with armour links/mindlink, ensuring that my little fleet was a little more durable.

Individuals suffering under the misapprehension that mining is boring probably have trouble comprehending sentences constructed of more than twelve syllables.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Alara IonStorm
#734 - 2012-04-13 03:58:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Montevius Williams wrote:
Too be fair, the iteron was never meant to be used in hostile environments. The hulk is designed for mining in hostile envrionments, as stated in the description. You really cant compare them.
Yes you can. Both are non-combat ships for the industrial sector. What the flavour text says isn't particularly important (it says the Ferox is a very scary killing machine).

The T1 Iteron is like the T1 Covetor in that they are both Paper.

The also T2 Viator and Occator who's "flavor text" and defense bonuses match the Hulks style.

The difference is that Transport Ships Slot Layout / Bonuses give them the Defense so promised.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#735 - 2012-04-13 04:03:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Montevius Williams wrote:
Too be fair, the iteron was never meant to be used in hostile environments. The hulk is designed for mining in hostile envrionments, as stated in the description. You really cant compare them.
Yes you can. Both are non-combat ships for the industrial sector. What the flavour text says isn't particularly important (it says the Ferox is a very scary killing machine).


Are you actually comparing an Iteron to a Hulk?

The Iteron has the mass of a Cruiser, while a Hulk has four times the size.

Are you saying size doesn't matter?

That it only matters how the ship is used?

While I would put one above the other, I think completely ignoring size is a mistake.
Yukikio
Doomheim
#736 - 2012-04-13 04:26:32 UTC
Signed/

Time to move on with the times, having more ehp should be more awarding for the gankers anyway.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#737 - 2012-04-13 05:38:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
People who say "just warp away when you see destroyer" don't even know how slow mining barges and exhumers are.

Let's do some comparing shall we?

Hulk has a align time of 16,68 seconds while sporting 20+k EHP.
Triple plated Abaddon has align time of 14,60 seconds while sporting 200+k EHP.

So, could any of you EFT warriors give tank fit for Hulk with align time of less than 14,60 seconds.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#738 - 2012-04-13 06:00:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Both are non-combat ships for the industrial sector. What the flavour text says isn't particularly important (it says the Ferox is a very scary killing machine).


The Ferox is scary. If you see someone flying it, you know they're insane. That's scary.

Just based on size, position in the hierarchy, T2 vs T1 status, etc, the Hulk should have some extra PG. It has 3 more mid slots than a Covetor, but no extra PG. What goes in mid slots? Medium power requirement items: shield extenders, after burners, shield boosters, that kind of thing. It doesn't need much more: you can do amazing things just by sticking an MAPC II in one of the lows. So even 12 extra PG would be wonderful — you'll still come up against the CPU limit if you fit T1 strip miners, 2 MLUs and a few shield mods — but not overpowered. The pilot can then choose to implant a 5% CPU implant in order to squeeze more out of the ship, while a reactor control could lead to a hulk that can have nontrivial yield and nontrivial tank, just like a combat ship can choose to fit an extra DPS mod in the lows while sacrificing one slot of tank. If a Hulk tries that, you run up against the CPU limit immediately due to the CPU penalty on MLUs.

Note that PG implants or rigs are useless on a Hulk since you're starting with such a low number in the first place. 5% of 35MW is a whopping huge 1.75MW. Enough to fit a DC!

The way the Hulk and the Orca are right now, the pilot is relatively safe if they keep an eye on local. Of course they need to develop strategies to remain safe, and those strategies can not involve stations or gates (since those are two places where a hulk or orca is just a wallowing whale waiting for a whomping).

In short: an industrial pilot in hisec has to behave exactly as if they were in low sec, with the disadvantage of not being allowed to shoot first.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#739 - 2012-04-13 06:15:46 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
So, could any of you EFT warriors give tank fit for Hulk with align time of less than 14,60 seconds.


I can get a non-boosting Orca off grid in just over 10 seconds — fit a MWD.

The trick is to switch the hulk into the Orca's SMB, stay on grid in your max-tank Basilisks with the salvager fitted so you can laugh at the guys who tried to smart bomb your mining fleet.

If you're trying to mine during Hulkageddon, you'll want to go to extremes: take the booster(s) off-grid, leave the on-grid orca as a mobile jet can and SMB only. Make sure you get off-grid, safe and cloaked before the wannabe-gankers land on grid and can finally get out of warp.

As for all this whining about hulk not having enough tank, or not being agile enough, or simply not being survivable enough for the play style that has grown around it, tough *******. The messaging from CCP Soundwave is that CCP don't give a damn about people who enjoy mining as a form of relaxation. If you enjoy mining as a relaxing thing to do in EVE Online, cancel your subscriptions and let CCP know why. As the Summer of Rage/Incarna Riots showed, CCP will not listen to your complaints (what you say), but they will listen to enough of you unsubscribing (what you do).

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#740 - 2012-04-13 06:34:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:

As for the BPOs, no. I'm thinking about getting a Thrasher BPO, if people are actually as bad at fitting their exhumers as this thread (and others) suggests, but I don't think it'll be ready in time. All my research slots are taken for more interesting things.


Everybody talking about catalysts and hybrids buff and you go buy a thrasher Roll
I am almost tempted to sell you my thrasher BPO, but then I'd feel like a cheater.

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