These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

so the hulk WTF CCP?!!?!?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#301 - 2012-04-11 18:08:38 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Yes, it's 100% the victim's fault if he chooses to make himself easy to kill. What's confusing you about this?

Wrong.

CCP FORCES them to be a victim with gimped slot layouts and fitting stats!

In addition some "you mad bro" loser PvPer chose to pick eazy targets as he was to unskilled to survive real PvP.

I like how you're claiming you're forced to be a loser by CCP, not by your choice of playstyle or your individual gameplay proficiency.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Adunh Slavy
#302 - 2012-04-11 18:09:06 UTC
meh stupid interwebs

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#303 - 2012-04-11 18:09:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Damnation
Armored Warfare Link - Damage Control II
Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense II
Armored Warfare Link - Rapid Repair II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuvers II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment II
Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity II
4× Command Processor I
6× Co-Processor II
2× Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

…oh dear. At just under 50k EHP, It can also be ganked by a small gang of destroyers. It's obvious that the Damnation needs to have its tanking abilities drastically buffed because it's such a weak ship. Roll


Nice going comparing apples with tech moons. Roll
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#304 - 2012-04-11 18:12:20 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Yes, it's 100% the victim's fault if he chooses to make himself easy to kill. What's confusing you about this?

Wrong.

CCP FORCES them to be a victim with gimped slot layouts and fitting stats!

In addition some "you mad bro" loser PvPer chose to pick eazy targets as he was to unskilled to survive real PvP.

I like how you're claiming you're forced to be a loser by CCP, not by your choice of playstyle or your individual gameplay proficiency.

So much fail, unbeliveble and terrible troll attemp.

There is just one reason you pick Hulks+Industrials : YOU are to bad for real PvP

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#305 - 2012-04-11 18:12:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Nice going comparing apples with tech moons. Roll
Good thing that I didn't then.
I compared a “fit for its role” fit with the kind of “fit for its role” fit that people want to put on their Hulks, after which they complain that their Hulks need to be buffed because of how weak they become with that role-specific fit.

If you fit the Damnation for its role, it's a weak ship and obviously needs to have its tank buffed… or maybe you could just fit a tank to it and see what happens, much like how you could approach fitting a hulk.
Adunh Slavy
#306 - 2012-04-11 18:14:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Learn not be so overly dramatic with your 100% absolutes.
What's dramatic about it?

Is it, or is it not, the victim who has chosen to make his ship easy to kill?
If it's not the victim, please explain how someone managed to change his fit into something he didn't want to use, and how that someone managed to force the victim to undock when he didn't want to.


There is no such thing as a gank proof ship. There is no point in putting on as much tank as the cost of an insured covetor. The hulk is redundant.

The drama is you running around calling people idiots and blaming them for 100% of things, much of which is beyond their control. Doing what you can to make it a black and white argument is beneath you.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Avila Cracko
#307 - 2012-04-11 18:16:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Avila Cracko
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Damnation
Armored Warfare Link - Damage Control II
Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense II
Armored Warfare Link - Rapid Repair II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuvers II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment II
Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity II
4× Command Processor I
6× Co-Processor II
2× Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

…oh dear. At just under 50k EHP, It can also be ganked by a small gang of destroyers. It's obvious that the Damnation needs to have its tanking abilities drastically buffed because it's such a weak ship. Roll


Nice going comparing apples with tech moons. Roll


Tippia wrote:
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Nice going comparing apples with tech moons. Roll
Good thing that I didn't then.
I compared a “fit for its role” fit with the kind of “fit for its role” fit that people want to put on their Hulks, after which they complain that their Hulks need to be buffed because of how weak they become with that role-specific fit.

If you fit the Damnation for its role, it's a weak ship and obviously needs to have its tank buffed… or maybe you could just fit a tank to it and see what happens, much like how you could approach fitting a hulk.




You see...
she just said that Hulk should have 50k EHP.
Hulk is BC sized T2 ship, and fitted for its role should have "just under 50k EHP", just like Damnation.

Where to sign??? Big smileBig smileBig smile

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#308 - 2012-04-11 18:17:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Yes, it's 100% the victim's fault if he chooses to make himself easy to kill. What's confusing you about this?

Wrong.

CCP FORCES them to be a victim with gimped slot layouts and fitting stats!

In addition some "you mad bro" loser PvPer chose to pick eazy targets as he was to unskilled to survive real PvP.

I like how you're claiming you're forced to be a loser by CCP, not by your choice of playstyle or your individual gameplay proficiency.

So much fail, unbeliveble and terrible troll attemp.

There is just one reason you pick Hulks+Industrials : YOU are to bad for real PvP

You forgot about:

Because idiot carebears livestream their mining ops so we can gank them and watch ourselves ganking them at the same time, for lulz.

That's really a pretty valid (and epic) reason TBFH.

[Edit: Sometimes there's even a webcam involved. Thoe are some special fruitcakes right there.]

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#309 - 2012-04-11 18:19:21 UTC
Fractal Muse wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:

So why is there a thread every thirty seconds.

Instead of learning how to fit a bit of a tank onto their ship and paying attention while mining (keeping an eye on local, scanning, being aligned to a safe spot


Sigh, another one who never actually mined (yes you are smart for doing not so).
You DO realize that at some point I lose contact with the stooped roid and sluggish as that brick in space is, if I'm not blind by pure boredom or just look the other way because i'm distracted having doing NOT A THING for ages I lose whatever is between the roid and my under tanked Hulk, while I try to make a turn to a second safespot?


Mining is one of the worst badly developed and implemented, even under developed things in EVE with CCP looking the other way for over 6 years.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#310 - 2012-04-11 18:21:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Adunh Slavy wrote:
There is no such thing as a gank proof ship. There is no point in putting on as much tank as the cost of an insured covetor. The hulk is redundant.
…except that numbers prove you wrong. The Hulk is far more popular than the Covetor because of the advantages it provides, and it is far from redundant. In fact, if anything, it's the Covetor that is redundant due to how poorly it performs for what it requires (which is why they're adjusting it to make it a bit more appealing in Inferno).

Its popularity also demonstrates that it's not really in any greater need of a buff — if it were, it wouldn't be nearly as popular, especially if it's so close to a Covetor as you claim. But again, there's a reason they're adjusting the Covetor, not the Hulk, in the next expansion…

Quote:
The drama is you running around calling people idiots and blaming them for 100% of things
It's not dramatic to say that your choice is your choice — it's actually the most trivial of truisms. If you choose to make your ship easy to kill, then you choose make your ship easy to kill. The result is easy to see: the ship is now easy to kill; you chose this to happen; it is 100% your fault. This decision is entirely within your control. No matter how much you'd like to shift the blame elsewhere, no-one but you are responsible for the choices you make.

No-one is claiming that it can be made gank-proof. We're claiming that if you make it easier to gank than it needs to be, then that's entirely of your own choosing, and you bad decision is not an adequate reason to change the ship. It is and adequate reason for you to reconsider your decision and make a less bad one the next time… Your failure is not a game design problem.

Jojo Jackson wrote:
There is just one reason you pick Hulks+Industrials : YOU are to bad for real PvP
Have you thought about learning how to PvP? It's not all that hard…
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#311 - 2012-04-11 18:22:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Fractal Muse wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:

So why is there a thread every thirty seconds.

Instead of learning how to fit a bit of a tank onto their ship and paying attention while mining (keeping an eye on local, scanning, being aligned to a safe spot


Sigh, another one who never actually mined (yes you are smart for doing not so).
You DO realize that at some point I lose contact with the stooped roid and sluggish as that brick in space is, if I'm not blind by pure boredom or just look the other way because i'm distracted having doing NOT A THING for ages I lose whatever is between the roid and my under tanked Hulk, while I try to make a turn to a second safespot?


Mining is one of the worst badly developed and implemented, even under developed things in EVE with CCP looking the other way for over 6 years.



see the part where I said "CCP doesnt want to to mine"

theyre "looking the other way" for a reason

though all the buff the hulk needs is CCP to keep moving against the gankers. Or "shoring up loopholes" as they keep calling it

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#312 - 2012-04-11 18:23:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Damnation
Armored Warfare Link - Damage Control II
Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense II
Armored Warfare Link - Rapid Repair II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuvers II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment II
Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity II
4× Command Processor I
6× Co-Processor II
2× Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

…oh dear. At just under 50k EHP, It can also be ganked by a small gang of destroyers. It's obvious that the Damnation needs to have its tanking abilities drastically buffed because it's such a weak ship. Roll

If you abuse a ship out of it's intened use ... YOU fail.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#313 - 2012-04-11 18:23:56 UTC
No you see Tippia he was implying the only reason to pick hulks/industrials as targets is that we are bad at PVP.

I assure you - I am no such thing.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#314 - 2012-04-11 18:25:56 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
If you abuse a ship out of it's intened use ... YOU fail.
Congratulations — you just saw our entire point. Don't abuse a ship by focusing on just one aspect and neglecting the rest, and suddenly, it will perform much better than you thought it did in areas you didn't think of at first…
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#315 - 2012-04-11 18:26:43 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Jojo Jackson wrote:
There is just one reason you pick Hulks+Industrials : YOU are to bad for real PvP
Have you thought about learning how to PvP? It's not all that hard…

Why should I if I don't like it?

And who tells you I wouldn't know how to?

But I must be blind and stupid to not see the gimpnes of Mining and Industrial ships. Even my hamster might have enough brain to see it.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#316 - 2012-04-11 18:28:11 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Jojo Jackson wrote:
There is just one reason you pick Hulks+Industrials : YOU are to bad for real PvP
Have you thought about learning how to PvP? It's not all that hard…

Why should I if I don't like it?

And who tells you I wouldn't know how to?

But I must be blind and stupid to not see the gimpnes of Mining and Industrial ships. Even my hamster might have enough brain to see it.

By your logic all battleship pilots would be fools to not see the epic gimpness of their mining capabilities.

Meanwhile, non-morons call this a "role" and accept it.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#317 - 2012-04-11 18:28:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
maybe its they dont want you to mine but they have to allow it cause its a sandbox an all

Jojo Jackson wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Jojo Jackson wrote:
There is just one reason you pick Hulks+Industrials : YOU are to bad for real PvP
Have you thought about learning how to PvP? It's not all that hard…

Why should I if I don't like it?

And who tells you I wouldn't know how to?

But I must be blind and stupid to not see the gimpnes of Mining and Industrial ships. Even my hamster might have enough brain to see it.



But its a PVP sandbox...

(sarcasm)

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Adunh Slavy
#318 - 2012-04-11 18:29:45 UTC
@ Tip
The amount of complaints about its lack of survivability proves something as well. Of course this is easier to ignore right?

You can cease with the personl pronouns about how and what I fit, the hulk I do have is rather old, and until very recently wasn't worth undocking at all, and frankly still isn't.

And there are better ways to make a ship gank proof than fitting a tank, but I'll let you ponder that one, see if it'll drag you out of your black and white box of safe arguments.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#319 - 2012-04-11 18:35:08 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Jojo Jackson wrote:
There is just one reason you pick Hulks+Industrials : YOU are to bad for real PvP
Have you thought about learning how to PvP? It's not all that hard…

Why should I if I don't like it?

And who tells you I wouldn't know how to?

But I must be blind and stupid to not see the gimpnes of Mining and Industrial ships. Even my hamster might have enough brain to see it.

By your logic all battleship pilots would be fools to not see the epic gimpness of their mining capabilities.

Meanwhile, non-morons call this a "role" and accept it.


I think theres more a hamster like intelligence to try an say you shouldnt HAVE to PVP in THIS game -.-

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#320 - 2012-04-11 18:38:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jojo Jackson wrote:
If you abuse a ship out of it's intened use ... YOU fail.
Congratulations — you just saw our entire point. Don't abuse a ship by focusing on just one aspect and neglecting the rest, and suddenly, it will perform much better than you thought it did in areas you didn't think of at first…

That's not your point.

Your point: Don't buff our prefared eazy mode targets as we would lose more money while we do our anti sozial ganking.

No?

Then enlight us with a true argument why BC size ships don't have the same starting values (slots, cpu, pg, other stats).
Mining Barks lose weapon slots for mining equip ... no problem. It is allready a bad trade as normal BC hulls have 7-8 high slots where they use 6-7 for weapons against 3 highs for 3 Stripe Miners.
But why do they lose another 4 slots (mid+low)?
And why do they lose massive amounts of CPU and PG?
And why do they lose massive amounts of base defense? Hulk 7.374 base EHp v Claymore 20.657 base EHP .. BOTH ARE TECH 2 BC hulls and (should) be at the same price tack!

I don't even start with base speed, base agility, base sensor strength, base cap recharge, bas cap and all the other stuff.

Only advantage is a much bigger cargo hold.
But it isn't big enough to justify all the other PRE GIMP STATS!

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!