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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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nartela
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4181 - 2012-04-08 14:06:09 UTC
after all that work they shouldnt abandon it theyve got the framework now such as the avatars and such, im still waiting for the awsome corp headquarters that they promised us. the pro's of having it in outway the cons in my opinion.
HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4182 - 2012-04-08 14:21:22 UTC
Jonas Xiamon wrote:
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Jonas Xiamon wrote:
>Contraband items can only be bought in WiS


Why should players be forced into WiS just to access a section of the market? What does that add to the game

Here's a similarly dumb counter-proposal: you can only access WiS if you've achieved 50 PvP kills in the previous month.


Why would illegal drugs be traded in mass quantities on the open market? Ridiculous.


If you want a different type of market window to handle the black market, ok, fine. If you want contraband to only be available through direct trade with someone else in the same station, again, fine

There's no particularly good reason why you should need to switch to WiS mode to access those though, and again, you're falling into the error of Captain's Quarters by saying "this feature has no gameplay so we'll hijack features from other areas of the game to get people to use it."
bornaa
GRiD.
#4183 - 2012-04-08 14:46:04 UTC  |  Edited by: bornaa
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Jonas Xiamon wrote:
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Jonas Xiamon wrote:
>Contraband items can only be bought in WiS


Why should players be forced into WiS just to access a section of the market? What does that add to the game

Here's a similarly dumb counter-proposal: you can only access WiS if you've achieved 50 PvP kills in the previous month.


Why would illegal drugs be traded in mass quantities on the open market? Ridiculous.


If you want a different type of market window to handle the black market, ok, fine. If you want contraband to only be available through direct trade with someone else in the same station, again, fine

There's no particularly good reason why you should need to switch to WiS mode to access those though, and again, you're falling into the error of Captain's Quarters by saying "this feature has no gameplay so we'll hijack features from other areas of the game to get people to use it."


As i know CCP said that boosters and all illegal things will be only traded via WiS because when we are in pods we are connected with many computers and records of all things we do are there, so records of trading contraband (illegal) goods are there too. That is logical thing, if you don't want concord intervention in few seconds do not engage illegal things when you are being tracked and every your move is recorded.

To trade all illegal things you need to be disconnected from the computers grids and you are not connected only when you are out of your pod.
Then you can engage every illegal activity you want because there are not records of you doing it (just stay away from security cameras).

So, not be able to engage illegal activities from your pod, without concord intervention, is absolutely logical and i support that.
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4184 - 2012-04-08 14:52:34 UTC
WIS will come eventually, it has to
Severian Carnifex
#4185 - 2012-04-08 14:59:57 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
WIS will come eventually, it has to


Unfortunately, WIS does not have to see day light.
EVE can die before they realize that WiS is new EVEs life.
Severian Carnifex
#4186 - 2012-04-08 15:03:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Severian Carnifex
bornaa wrote:
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Jonas Xiamon wrote:
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Jonas Xiamon wrote:
>Contraband items can only be bought in WiS


Why should players be forced into WiS just to access a section of the market? What does that add to the game

Here's a similarly dumb counter-proposal: you can only access WiS if you've achieved 50 PvP kills in the previous month.


Why would illegal drugs be traded in mass quantities on the open market? Ridiculous.


If you want a different type of market window to handle the black market, ok, fine. If you want contraband to only be available through direct trade with someone else in the same station, again, fine

There's no particularly good reason why you should need to switch to WiS mode to access those though, and again, you're falling into the error of Captain's Quarters by saying "this feature has no gameplay so we'll hijack features from other areas of the game to get people to use it."


As i know CCP said that boosters and all illegal things will be only traded via WiS because when we are in pods we are connected with many computers and records of all things we do are there, so records of trading contraband (illegal) goods are there too. That is logical thing, if you don't want concord intervention in few seconds do not engage illegal things when you are being tracked and every your move is recorded.

To trade all illegal things you need to be disconnected from the computers grids and you are not connected only when you are out of your pod.
Then you can engage every illegal activity you want because there are not records of you doing it (just stay away from security cameras).

So, not be able to engage illegal activities from your pod, without concord intervention, is absolutely logical and i support that.


Logical, and really good point.
If you do engage in illegal activities and you don't want to be caught, do it in some dark alley and not on the main square.
And our pods interface is the main square of EVE universe with security cameras and cops on it.
How do you think Concord comes right away when we do something bad in space? No one calls them to say them that you did something bad. Records of all communication and data coming through our pod interfaces are monitored by Concord.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#4187 - 2012-04-08 21:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
Hmm, I just hope avatar gameplay will at one point include things that WiS lovers actually want, and not only things that might convince FiS lovers that avatar gameplay can actually add something to the game (when they get the chance to lock up WiS players in derelict ships).

For me and some other WiS lovers, social interaction is a big thing. There are many things I would like more than do exploration in avatar form: Corporate meeting rooms, war rooms, bars. And if these exploration enviroments are accessable by multiple avatars at the same time, I see no reason why we can't have a simple room where our avatars can talk to eachother.
This new vision that social gameplay isn't gameplay concerns me. I think the social/RP side of avatar gameplay is one of the important ones, especially for those that actually want WiS. Just because people didn't like the single player version of Incarna does not mean they don't want social interaction, more like the opposite (but not really).

So yes, maybe social stuff is something that mostly caters to roleplayers, but when is the last time EVE got some mostly RP oriented feature? Heck, to my knowledge, in the years that FiS crowd was "neglected", they got more features made for them than the roleplayers have.
Actually, the best thing roleplayers got in EVE's existence is not in the game at all: the new fiction portal. Not that that should be ingame, but my point is: FiS crowd have plenty of S to F in, miners got their asteroids, traders got their markets, industrialists got their factorys, etc. etc. I think it's time that EVE got a feature that is mostly made for the roleplayers, especially because the RP side of EVE is often mostly forgotten about in other features (which is also bad because IMO they would be better and more interesting for everyone if they did pay some more attention to that side).

A positive ending now: I am looking forward to the time I will be able to gain and lose weight, age, etc.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
#4188 - 2012-04-08 22:27:00 UTC
I don't care at all about being able to fight as my avatar. I would like to walk around stations or other areas, though. And for researching and other activities, it would be cool to have new and better interfaces for that. It would just be fun to interact with other avatars in some way, but don't care about it being a combat thing.

Mostly I would love to be able to play poker, blackjack and other casino games at casinos. That would be awesome.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#4189 - 2012-04-08 22:30:15 UTC
Ydnari wrote:
Abandon WiS.


This

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Daneirkus Auralex
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4190 - 2012-04-09 00:39:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Daneirkus Auralex
Ultimately, I really think the desires for WiS are desires for an additional game. At its core, EVE is a game about flying in spaceships - CCP was forced to remember this fact at great cost. In a recent interview, CCP Tori Frans stated that creating stand-alone products which tie into the EVE universe is desirable compared to stuffing everything into EVE, despite some of our desires to have universal control over our avatars.

In my opinion, immersion is about scope and depth. DUST will add both to the EVE universe by allowing for a different, more casual type of action-driven gameplay while still allowing for full participation in our storyline. Perhaps, in the future, another client will allow room for more social gameplay, such as we'd expect to see in World of Darkness (except based in science fiction). Maybe instead of the current EVE Launcher, we'll see a composite launcher which allows us to launch our character into EVE, DUST or the social game. Perhaps new AI, logic and physics engines will allow us to do nearly anything we can imagine.

If threadnoughts like this prove anything, its that some EVE players want EVE to focus on spaceships, while others clearly demonstrate a demand for avatar-based gameplay. I, for one, would welcome a comprehensive sci-fi simulator, a thoroughly fleshed-out universe which allows us to immerse ourselves in a life of the future. Hilmar said it himself: EVE's "Future Vision" is still very relevant. I just wouldn't expect it to happen overnight.
Hroya
#4191 - 2012-04-09 00:45:29 UTC
Daneirkus Auralex,

Well said. Nothing to add to that.

You go your corridor but.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#4192 - 2012-04-09 01:57:27 UTC
Hroya wrote:
Daneirkus Auralex,

Well said. Nothing to add to that.


same

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Selinate
#4193 - 2012-04-09 02:37:01 UTC
Daneirkus Auralex wrote:
Ultimately, I really think the desires for WiS are desires for an additional game. At its core, EVE is a game about flying in spaceships - CCP was forced to remember this fact at great cost. In a recent interview, CCP Tori Frans stated that creating stand-alone products which tie into the EVE universe is desirable compared to stuffing everything into EVE, despite some of our desires to have universal control over our avatars.

In my opinion, immersion is about scope and depth. DUST will add both to the EVE universe by allowing for a different, more casual type of action-driven gameplay while still allowing for full participation in our storyline. Perhaps, in the future, another client will allow room for more social gameplay, such as we'd expect to see in World of Darkness (except based in science fiction). Maybe instead of the current EVE Launcher, we'll see a composite launcher which allows us to launch our character into EVE, DUST or the social game. Perhaps new AI, logic and physics engines will allow us to do nearly anything we can imagine.

If threadnoughts like this prove anything, its that some EVE players want EVE to focus on spaceships, while others clearly demonstrate a demand for avatar-based gameplay. I, for one, would welcome a comprehensive sci-fi simulator, a thoroughly fleshed-out universe which allows us to immerse ourselves in a life of the future. Hilmar said it himself: EVE's "Future Vision" is still very relevant. I just wouldn't expect it to happen overnight.


CCP was not forced to remember this fact at great cost, I don't think. The main reason that the vast majority of players got overwhelmingly angry at WiS is the fact that it was forced upon them every time they docked, ergo they were forced to remember not to force something on their entire playerbase. For many, their CPU's couldn't handle the station environment well at all, so it frustrated them quite a bit. This is my theory at least, as I thought aside from that, Incarna was a great expansion.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#4194 - 2012-04-09 02:42:07 UTC
Selinate wrote:
Daneirkus Auralex wrote:
Ultimately, I really think the desires for WiS are desires for an additional game. At its core, EVE is a game about flying in spaceships - CCP was forced to remember this fact at great cost. In a recent interview, CCP Tori Frans stated that creating stand-alone products which tie into the EVE universe is desirable compared to stuffing everything into EVE, despite some of our desires to have universal control over our avatars.

In my opinion, immersion is about scope and depth. DUST will add both to the EVE universe by allowing for a different, more casual type of action-driven gameplay while still allowing for full participation in our storyline. Perhaps, in the future, another client will allow room for more social gameplay, such as we'd expect to see in World of Darkness (except based in science fiction). Maybe instead of the current EVE Launcher, we'll see a composite launcher which allows us to launch our character into EVE, DUST or the social game. Perhaps new AI, logic and physics engines will allow us to do nearly anything we can imagine.

If threadnoughts like this prove anything, its that some EVE players want EVE to focus on spaceships, while others clearly demonstrate a demand for avatar-based gameplay. I, for one, would welcome a comprehensive sci-fi simulator, a thoroughly fleshed-out universe which allows us to immerse ourselves in a life of the future. Hilmar said it himself: EVE's "Future Vision" is still very relevant. I just wouldn't expect it to happen overnight.


CCP was not forced to remember this fact at great cost, I don't think.



20% of the company isnt at great cost?

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Jonas Xiamon
#4195 - 2012-04-09 02:47:31 UTC
Daneirkus Auralex wrote:
Ultimately, I really think the desires for WiS are desires for an additional game. At its core, EVE is a game about flying in spaceships - CCP was forced to remember this fact at great cost. In a recent interview, CCP Tori Frans stated that creating stand-alone products which tie into the EVE universe is desirable compared to stuffing everything into EVE, despite some of our desires to have universal control over our avatars.


For me, it's not just a game about spaceships, it's a space simulator. Sure I undock, but I also spend a large amount of time in stations, playing the market, RPing, forum warrioring, eft warrioring, etc. I'm not just a space pilot, I'm a space sociolite, a space engineer, a space entrepenuer. I love pew pew, I suck at it, but I love it, and I think eve need to continue developing it's pew pew.

However, I feel that it should also develop other aspects of the same game, the game inside the stations.

Daneirkus Auralex wrote:
In my opinion, immersion is about scope and depth. DUST will add both to the EVE universe by allowing for a different, more casual type of action-driven gameplay while still allowing for full participation in our storyline. Perhaps, in the future, another client will allow room for more social gameplay, such as we'd expect to see in World of Darkness (except based in science fiction). Maybe instead of the current EVE Launcher, we'll see a composite launcher which allows us to launch our character into EVE, DUST or the social game. Perhaps new AI, logic and physics engines will allow us to do nearly anything we can imagine.


And who would you play inside these stations? Why wouldn't a Capusuleer be able to interact with them? I feel that a capsuleer should not have to choose between a capsule, or a closet. I want to stretch my legs. I'm not sure I want "meaningful" first/third person shooter eve, why would capsuleers do that, when they could hire an army of marines, dusters, or who ever else to do their hand to hand dirty work for them? Complete the triangle of an MMO, give me my cafe.

Daneirkus Auralex wrote:
If threadnoughts like this prove anything, its that some EVE players want EVE to focus on spaceships, while others clearly demonstrate a demand for avatar-based gameplay. I, for one, would welcome a comprehensive sci-fi simulator, a thoroughly fleshed-out universe which allows us to immerse ourselves in a life of the future. Hilmar said it himself: EVE's "Future Vision" is still very relevant. I just wouldn't expect it to happen overnight.


I want both, but I don't think WiS should cater to the people who didn't want WiS in the first place, it should be for the 30% or so who want a simply more immersive experience.

Besides, they can always add more once they get the basics down.

My idea of WiS -> Drug trade, takes place at bars, which also offer gambling. These bars are owned by Corporations, which rent these areas inside the station, they can make the areas private if they want, making meeting areas for their members, or make them have both public and private areas within.

I usally write one of these and then change it a month later when I reread it and decide it sounds stupid.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#4196 - 2012-04-09 08:53:50 UTC
Daneirkus Auralex wrote:
Ultimately, I really think the desires for WiS are desires for an additional game. At its core, EVE is a game about flying in spaceships - CCP was forced to remember this fact at great cost. In a recent interview, CCP Tori Frans stated that creating stand-alone products which tie into the EVE universe is desirable compared to stuffing everything into EVE, despite some of our desires to have universal control over our avatars.


Desires for WiS are desires for MORE gameplay in EVE, not in another game.

See, I wouldn't care that much about WiS if I could play some other stuff in space -and by "some other" i think of something different than what EVE currently has to offer.

EVE as it is is a game i don't play any further. I already did what I was interested to do, so if I have to play EVE, then it must be something different. "More of the same old drill" won't do it, and i have a serious feeling that my case is not uncommon.

There is no endgame content for hiseccers. That certainly matches to CCP's design assumption that people joins EVE because of nullsec, but that assumption clashes against the fact that nullsec is a niche within the niche.

EVE is unique in many aspects, and so it will appeal to many kinds of players. Then CCP will drive most of them away with the faulty assumption that, as nullsec has appealed to the same 15,000 players for 9 years, then the other 330,000 can pretty much f* themselves and go play WoW if they don't like nullsec and grew bored of everything else.
Severian Carnifex
#4197 - 2012-04-09 09:18:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Severian Carnifex
Selinate wrote:

CCP was not forced to remember this fact at great cost, I don't think. The main reason that the vast majority of players got overwhelmingly angry at WiS is the fact that it was forced upon them every time they docked, ergo they were forced to remember not to force something on their entire playerbase. For many, their CPU's couldn't handle the station environment well at all, so it frustrated them quite a bit. This is my theory at least, as I thought aside from that, Incarna was a great expansion.


Ill quote one of the posts from this thread (40 pages in the past) that summarize why players left, and it was no WiS guilt at all, actually it was because there was no WiS.


DeMichael Crimson wrote:


So you're still spouting the same ole lies. WiS was not the reason for the mass unsubs.

The Incarna Expansion failed to deliver the WiS that was promised years ago known as Ambulation. The Incarna Expansion was the catalyst which combined with resulting events and previous in-game problems ended up being 'The straw that broke the Camel's back'.

Those mass unsubs were due to a lot of different things listed here in no particular order.

The 1001 Papercuts thread - large list of various broken game mechanics and unfinished content since 2003.
Numerous expansions constantly being rushed out 1/2 finished and bugged breaking existing content.
CCP introducing NEX Store and MT - selling overpriced items for real money bypassing player production.
Threat of 'Gold Ammo' and 'Gold Ships' enabling 'Pay to Win' exploitation.
CCP dividing development resources working on 3 different projects at same time.
The leaked memo 'Fearless Newsletter' - Greed is good.
CCP statement of Eve Online viewed as the Golden Goose.
Forcing 3rd party programs to pay real money for providing Eve Online applications.
CCP failure to maintain promise of 'Commitment to Excellence'.
Showing players 'The Door' and removing option of choice, forced participation.
CCP attempting to diffuse the situation with excessive thread locking and banned accounts.
Lack of communication resulting in poor Public Relations due to ignoring the player base.
Releasing poorly written unoptimized code in a major expansion resulting in client side issues.
Hilmar's statement - "Watch what they do, not what they say."

Basically Hilmar's statement became the rally cry for the mass unsubs. Those unsubs combined with a large loan payment being due resulted in CCP downsizing and placing some of their other projects on the back burner.

Ladie Harlot wrote:
Captains Quarters are inside the station and you can walk in them (at least until your video card catches fire). Was that worth two years of Eve being neglected?

Strange, I had a 10 year old computer with minimum required specs and I was able to have CQ active. Granted it took a while to load up and was very laggy. Of course this was when CCP had first introduced CQ which has been optimized now so if your Video Card is catching on fire, then you'd better get a new computer.

By the way, I've seen a lot of different game play content added in the past 3 1/2 years I've been playing this game. Please explain how 2 years of Eve has been neglected?
El'Mirage
Doomheim
#4198 - 2012-04-09 11:18:44 UTC
FOREVER ALONE !
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#4199 - 2012-04-09 11:48:19 UTC
Being able to actually get into my bed in my quarters might be good too otherwise i'll stay sleeping on my sofa next to my eternal empty quafe bottles. Some pj's too so I don't sleep in my capsule clothes.
HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4200 - 2012-04-09 12:29:06 UTC
Che Biko wrote:
This new vision that social gameplay isn't gameplay concerns me.


Stop strawmanning.

CCP haven't said that 'social gameplay isn't gameplay' - Soundwave was quite enthusiastic at Fanfest about the idea of Eve as a socialising tool (see my earlier comments about mining). What CCP have now acknowledged, is that for 'social gameplay' to succeed it needs the actual gameplay element as well as the social element, so they're now working on gameplay ideas for WiS.

Even if the technology allows it, dumping a dozen avatars in an Incarna bar with nothing for them to do and relying on Space Magic to make emergent gameplay happen out of thin air is foolishness.