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New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

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Richard Aiel
The Merchants of War
#1241 - 2012-04-01 17:14:59 UTC
Azran Zala wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:


The Mittani encouraged others to go after someone[i] in order to drive them to suicide


No he didn't, many may have interpreted it that way.


And my story was in response that if u can ban one person for calling on a group of others to target a single individule,
then that would mean what we did was wrong and against the EULA aswell.



wow what an interesting world you live in. You should try some time in the real one. We have cookies

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/buddahcjcc/SOA-3-2.jpg
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1242 - 2012-04-01 17:18:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Azran Zala
Richard Aiel wrote:


wow what an interesting world you live in. You should try some time in the real one. We have cookies


Again you have YOUR interpretation of events, I have mine.
I didn't hear mitanni tell anyone to go forth and make someone commit suicied.
I heard him state, if anyone wants to make some game character kill itself go find him.
Thats very easy, u just scram and web his pod till he's forced to self destruct.

Since he didnt give any details of a real life person, it would be difficult for me to phone the guy up and tell him he should end it.
And sending only one character of 22, ingame mail suggesting it, would either get me blocked, or ignored.
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1243 - 2012-04-01 17:27:45 UTC
Richard Aiel wrote:

he told thousands of people to pressure him into suicide....


He didn't actually tell anyone TO DO anything. He just passed on the intel
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#1244 - 2012-04-01 17:28:02 UTC
Azran Zala wrote:
Richard Aiel wrote:


wow what an interesting world you live in. You should try some time in the real one. We have cookies


Again you have YOUR interpretation of events, I have mine.

yes, yours is wrong
Quote:

I didn't hear mitanni tell anyone to go forth and make someone commit suicied.

Nice example of selective hearing
Quote:

I heard him state, if anyone wants to make some game character kill itself go find him.
Thats very easy, u just scram and web his pod till he's forced to self destruct.

ah youre not deluded, I get it, youre trolling. typical goon alt, move along

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1245 - 2012-04-01 17:30:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Azran Zala
Richard Hammond II wrote:

I get it, youre trolling. typical goon alt, move along


If by trolling you mean contructive argument, using only the true facts given. Then yeah maybe.

And im not a goon alt, i've already stated where my interest in this topic lies.

furthermore your personal attacks do nothing to strenghthen your argument.
Could you please inculde something with a bit of intelect or thought in it besides dribble?
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#1246 - 2012-04-01 17:31:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Hammond II
Azran Zala wrote:
Richard Aiel wrote:

he told thousands of people to pressure him into suicide....


He didn't actually tell anyone TO DO anything. He just passed on the intel


guess you missed the part where he said to find him and make him kill himself. go watch it again, this time with the sound on. Might help

Azran Zala wrote:
Richard Hammond II wrote:

I get it, youre trolling. typical goon alt, move along


If by trolling you mean contructive argument, using only the true facts given. Then yeah maybe.

And im not a goon alt, i've already stated where my interest in this topic lies.



and lying that youre not a goon alt doesnt make it untrue. You cant argue with someone unwilling to change their mind. Its like arguing religion. A waste of time. You cant see reality. I cant argue with your fantasy, sorry

hell even ccp see what you reuse to. read the dev blog

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1247 - 2012-04-01 17:35:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Azran Zala
Richard Hammond II wrote:


guess you missed the part where he said to find him and make him kill himself. go watch it again, this time with the sound on. Might help



Lets take a look once again at his quote:
The Mittani: Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is The Wiz. Its “T-H-E SPACE W-I-S”. He has his own corp. Find him.

What is important is "If you want to make...
and not "Go and make..."

It apears the only possible damning part that could be interpreted as inciting others to harass this individule may be the words "Find him". But he fails to go into detail about what creative measure one might take in order to achieve "guy killing himself."
Nore did he elaborate if by guy killing himself he meant: The guy [being character] self destructing his pod, (Im sure that could be acomplished by scramming & webbing his capsule long enough that his only course of escape would be to commit ingame suicide.) or the guy [player] himself commiting real suicide. Since no rl names or specifics on how to accumplish the latter where given I shall have to accept the former interpretation.

also "Find him" was in the context of "if you want to..."


Furthermore insisting im a goon alt, doesn't really offend me. Just makes u look dumb.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#1248 - 2012-04-01 17:41:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Azran Zala wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:


The Mittani encouraged others to go after someone in order to drive them to suicide


No he didn't, many may have interpreted it that way.

In any case, CCP apparently does not think that what he did was the same as killing a dude's ship in game. So even if you do not see the difference, you should be safe from banning. Roll
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#1249 - 2012-04-01 17:43:35 UTC
Azran Zala wrote:
Richard Hammond II wrote:


guess you missed the part where he said to find him and make him kill himself. go watch it again, this time with the sound on. Might help



Lets take a look once again at his quote:
The Mittani: Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is The Wiz. Its “T-H-E SPACE W-I-S”. He has his own corp. Find him.

What is important is "If you want to make...
and not "Go and make..."

It apears the only possible damning part that could be interpreted as inciting others to harass this individule may be the words "Find him". But he fails to go into detail about what creative measure one might take in order to achieve "guy killing himself."
Nore did he elaborate if by guy killing himself he meant: The guy [being character] self destructing his pod, (Im sure that could be acomplished by scramming & webbing his capsule long enough that his only course of escape would be to commit ingame suicide.) or the guy [player] himself commiting real suicide. Since no rl names or specifics on how to accumplish the latter where given I shall have to accept the former interpretation.

also "Find him" was in the context of "if you want to..."


Furthermore insisting im a goon alt, doesn't really offend me. Just makes u look dumb.


put it in a ticket. Maybe you can get the 30 day revoked. Doubt it though, your semantics tricks dont seem to cut it with them and dont with me.

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1250 - 2012-04-01 17:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Azran Zala
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Azran Zala wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:


The Mittani encouraged others to go after someone in order to drive them to suicide


No he didn't, many may have interpreted it that way.

In any case, CCP apparently does not think that what he did was the same as killing a dude's ship in game. So even if you do not see the difference, you should be safe from banning. Roll


Since Mittani is rather friendly with some of the devs, Im inclined to believe that his stepping down and banning was coached, & since a 30day ban is not really significant, it was just an easy ploy by ccp to save face in light of all the stupid & missplaced critisism from sensationalised game media, hoping that it would shut them up, quicker than explaining that nothing he did was wrong beyond what any character in eve can possibly face on a daily basis.

Richard Hammond II wrote:


hell even ccp see what you reuse to. read the dev blog


I have confidence that CCP will do and say what makes sence for them as a business and not
necessarily whats fair for we the customer.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#1251 - 2012-04-01 17:52:40 UTC
I don't personally believe for a moment that was the case. But whatever. Tinfoil is tinfoil and won't change to anything else by us talking about it, and I doubt even a dev coming up and telling you that YES, there was a difference, would not remove it.
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1252 - 2012-04-01 17:54:11 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
I don't personally believe for a moment that was the case. But whatever. Tinfoil is tinfoil and won't change to anything else by us talking about it, and I doubt even a dev coming up and telling you that YES, there was a difference, would not remove it.


You dont have to, but its an interesting & viable possibility none the less.
Alexandr Kerensky
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1253 - 2012-04-01 18:03:51 UTC
The amount of vitriol this is generating is amazing. Shocked The issue appears to have been dealt with to CCP's satisfaction, though apparently not to elements of the community. Mittanni will be back in 30 days and while upset appears to accept it and to paraphase him "dealing with it". In the end what does it matter? The victim of this incident is still drawing breath, and hopefully continues to do so, Mittens has been punished, the game media that jumped on this stopped reporting on it two to three days ago.... all that seems to be left are the Goons and Pubbies with torches doing the "rabble rabble rabble" schtick. Let it go, go back to mining, ratting, griefing, shooting each other in the face.... you know. ENJOYING LIFE! Cool
Cede Forster
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1254 - 2012-04-01 18:05:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Cede Forster
Should people tell others in the game that they are suicidal?
How do you know the difference betwen somebody screwing with you and somebody who is not?

Is it okay to assume that in general people are screwing with you?
Is it okay to mock them?

If somebody claims he is suicidal you have to put your "nice kitty gloves on", just to be sure that you are not inciting something or else risk a ban, even if you comment on it clearly outside of the game and offical forums? Sounds a bit excessive.


What would make more sense? Report button for people who say they are suicidal and forwarding their personal information to the local authorities. If we are serious about this, that is the way to go.
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1255 - 2012-04-01 18:11:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Azran Zala
Cede Forster wrote:

What would make more sense? Report button for people who say they are suicidal and forwarding their personal information to the local authorities. If we are serious about this, that is the way to go.


A constructive suggestion indeed. Would you be willing to perhaps create an OP for it in features and ideas?
I'll +1 it.

Although I think 95% of the time its just people screwing with you.
I think the Wis was just screwing around aswell. He'd have to post his therapist's report to prove me otherwise.
Cede Forster
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1256 - 2012-04-01 18:22:41 UTC
Or simply make it against the rules to threaten people with suicide for ingame actions, that would work for me as well.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#1257 - 2012-04-01 18:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
I've said this before but since apparently not everyone has read it:
1) Blowing up someone's ship does not make it ok for them to pull the suicide card.
2) Someone threatening with suicide does not make it ok for to publicly mock them and encourage others to drive them to it.
3) Someone publicly mocking a suicide case does not make it ok for others to mock him back, let alone threaten his family.
"He started it" and "he was asking for it" are not good excuses for escalating RL hurt.

Whether The Wis was really suicidal or not is not relevant for whether it was ok for The Mittani to say what he did.

As CCP has said before: If someone threatens with RL suicide inside the game, you are supposed to use petitions to report it to CCP, who know his RL details and can forward the threat to the proper RL people. If they are not for real, their problem dealing with the consequences. Also, CCP will take action against people who attempt to use that as a trick repeatedly.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#1258 - 2012-04-01 18:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Hammond II
Azran Zala wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Azran Zala wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:


The Mittani encouraged others to go after someone in order to drive them to suicide


No he didn't, many may have interpreted it that way.

In any case, CCP apparently does not think that what he did was the same as killing a dude's ship in game. So even if you do not see the difference, you should be safe from banning. Roll


Since Mittani is rather friendly with some of the devs, Im inclined to believe that his stepping down and banning was coached, & since a 30day ban is not really significant, it was just an easy ploy by ccp to save face in light of all the stupid & missplaced critisism from sensationalised game media, hoping that it would shut them up, quicker than explaining that nothing he did was wrong beyond what any character in eve can possibly face on a daily basis.


lol? you are actually saying he got special treatment because of his friends in CCP?
YEAH youre right, that totally justifies him.
Cede Forster wrote:
Or simply make it against the rules to threaten people with suicide for ingame actions, that would work for me as well.


and make it permabannable, friends in CCP aside

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1259 - 2012-04-01 19:49:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Azran Zala
Richard Hammond II wrote:


lol? you are actually saying he got special treatment because of his friends in CCP?
YEAH youre right, that totally justifies him.


Im only suggesting that -maybe- his reasons for saying he'd step down from the CSM, was suggested to him to save face for ccp.

And if CCP really thought what he did was a critical breach of the EULA, they'd have permabanned him.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1260 - 2012-04-01 20:09:37 UTC
Azran Zala wrote:
Richard Hammond II wrote:


guess you missed the part where he said to find him and make him kill himself. go watch it again, this time with the sound on. Might help



Lets take a look once again at his quote:
The Mittani: Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is The Wiz. Its “T-H-E SPACE W-I-S”. He has his own corp. Find him.

What is important is "If you want to make...
and not "Go and make..."

It apears the only possible damning part that could be interpreted as inciting others to harass this individule may be the words "Find him". But he fails to go into detail about what creative measure one might take in order to achieve "guy killing himself."
Nore did he elaborate if by guy killing himself he meant: The guy [being character] self destructing his pod, (Im sure that could be acomplished by scramming & webbing his capsule long enough that his only course of escape would be to commit ingame suicide.) or the guy [player] himself commiting real suicide. Since no rl names or specifics on how to accumplish the latter where given I shall have to accept the former interpretation.

also "Find him" was in the context of "if you want to..."


Furthermore insisting im a goon alt, doesn't really offend me. Just makes u look dumb.


All semantics aside, you have definitely twisted everything around, turned it inside out and upside down in a failed attempt to justify his actions.

The text in the eve mail slide as well as The Mittani's remarks while reading it clearly establishes what the context of the Q & A statement meant. Obviously a majority of people perceived it that way while a small percentage of people still cling to your viewpoint. Doesn't matter.

Besides it's not about what's right or wrong, it's about what is. Most of the world's population views it as morally and sociably unacceptable which could also include legal ramifications for all parties involved. Clearly that's not good for business.

Anyway, the deed is done. CCP isn't going to change their decision.

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