These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ninker
Into Oblivion.
Fraternity.
#1161 - 2012-03-30 18:51:37 UTC
Cute that everyone thinks he should be let off.

Darling that they think 10k votes are wasted when most people have more than one account and probably voted with them.

Sweet that they think the numbers matter, what are they going to do unsub? Hahahaha. If that threat was maintained everytime something happened Eve would be in negative numbers.

Epic to see that no one is beyond the rules, no matter the size of the ego.
Kosh Seere
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1162 - 2012-03-30 19:11:30 UTC
Ninker wrote:
Cute that everyone thinks he should be let off.

Darling that they think 10k votes are wasted when most people have more than one account and probably voted with them.

Sweet that they think the numbers matter, what are they going to do unsub? Hahahaha. If that threat was maintained everytime something happened Eve would be in negative numbers.

Epic to see that no one is beyond the rules, no matter the size of the ego.

This just shows how much you know about what happened after Incarna.

Skill yourself!
Selinate
#1163 - 2012-03-30 19:14:05 UTC
If CCP puts him back on the CSM or lifts his ban before 30 days, I'm unsubbing and taking a hiatus again. I am not too big on playing games where this kind of behavior is allowed.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#1164 - 2012-03-30 19:18:12 UTC
I support this decision completely.

It is sad Mittens displayed such poor judgement that required this action on the part of CCP but this was the minimum required to restore the integrity of the CSM in the eyes of the majority of the players of Eve and to show the outside world CCP took this indecent seriously.

Thank you CCP for making what must have been a very hard call and getting it right.

Issler
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#1165 - 2012-03-30 19:21:47 UTC
Selinate wrote:
If CCP puts him back on the CSM or lifts his ban before 30 days, I'm unsubbing and taking a hiatus again. I am not too big on playing games where this kind of behavior is allowed.

Think it very likely CCP will change their call on something like this just because *forumragetears*? Yea, me neither.
Anela Cistine
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1166 - 2012-03-30 19:25:53 UTC
CCP Xhagen wrote:



Q3, Real life actions should not equate to in game sanctions. Why did this happen?
A3, After much deliberation on the subject, CCP considers the Alliance Panel to be an official CCP forum, as it is hosted by CCP and broadcast in a similarly visible fashion to the EVE Online forums. As such, it falls under the jurisdiction of the TOS.




Can you please clarify this? It sounds like CCP employees were not sure if that panel was "real life" or "an official CCP forum" hence the need for "much deliberation". It was unclear. But after deciding that it was indeed an official forum, you retroactively applied the rules to players. Employees weren't sure what rules apply, but random players are expected to intuit the answer CCP will come to if they ever consider the question? That doesn't sound quite right.

Applying the EULA/TOS to a real life event and then retroactively declaring that real life event to be part of the forums, and punishing people seems like a terrible precedent. Announce the rules, then punish people who break the rules. Doing it the other way around is madness. What's next, banning people for things they say during the "official" pub crawl?


Please clarify.
Selinate
#1167 - 2012-03-30 19:27:54 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Selinate wrote:
If CCP puts him back on the CSM or lifts his ban before 30 days, I'm unsubbing and taking a hiatus again. I am not too big on playing games where this kind of behavior is allowed.

Think it very likely CCP will change their call on something like this just because *forumragetears*? Yea, me neither.


No, I don't, but I am just stating my position on the chance that they do, and hope that others have the sense to do the same. I'd rather play WoW than play a game where this kind of behavior is allowed.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#1168 - 2012-03-30 19:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
I think the reply uses "forum" in the generic sense, as in, a place where people talk about stuff, as opposed to "forum" as in these specific thingies on web. The reply is about the fact that yes, Fanfest alliance panels are covered by CCP rules of conduct, as they are places "sponsored by CCP", as opposed to say tables in a random pub.

And anyone who thinks that the fact that they need to "intuit" the idea that is is NOT OK to encourage other players to harass someone in order to hurt them in RL, even as a joke, is a problem... well, they should not be communicating in any shape or form with the civilized world anyhow, so cannot see it as a problem myself if they cannot see the line and get banned as a result.
Devore Sekk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1169 - 2012-03-30 19:29:30 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:
The funny thing is, CCP didnt force Mittens to resign and invalidate the votes.

He did that himself.


Been following this sage since I saw it on live feed. The vast majority of the commentary on it by players and outsiders has been nearly unanimously misinformed, missing context, and is just plain old knee-jerk white-knighting (none of them have talked to the player in question, and resorted to playing the popular "cyberbulliyng" card instead, the new "will someone think of the children" meme). This forces CCP to react to appease these whiners and fix perceptions which were set by the train wreck stories on Massively and similar.

The above comment plays right into this stupidity.

The Mittani's account is temp-banned. A banned player cannot serve on the CSM. The Mittani has merely saved himself and CCP the indignity and embarrassment of having to dismiss him from the CSM. His stepping down is the best outcome for all involved. In all likelihood, he was informed of the incoming ban in advance.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1170 - 2012-03-30 20:22:52 UTC
I feel like I missed something but can't be bothered to read 59 pages to find out what it was. Lol
Alexandr Kerensky
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1171 - 2012-03-30 20:26:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexandr Kerensky
So much RAAAAAAAAGEEEEEE!!!!! Evil

Mitanni was drunk, said something stupid, was big enough to apologize and VOLUNTARILY resign. He will be back in 30 days, his wrath will burn all before him. The Alexpocalyse will begin! Would I like him back for CSM7: Yes! But that's not gonna change, despite all the emo tears to the contrary. He'll rule CSM8 when it comes around, and will still be a huge force in New Eden politics and events. Bottom line: Mittens ain't dead. He will return, and all will be right with the world. The amount of ragetears over this is pretty entertaining though.
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1172 - 2012-03-30 20:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Azran Zala
Selinate wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Selinate wrote:
If CCP puts him back on the CSM or lifts his ban before 30 days, I'm unsubbing and taking a hiatus again. I am not too big on playing games where this kind of behavior is allowed.

Think it very likely CCP will change their call on something like this just because *forumragetears*? Yea, me neither.


No, I don't, but I am just stating my position on the chance that they do, and hope that others have the sense to do the same. I'd rather play WoW than play a game where this kind of behavior is allowed.


Interesting, I kind of favour a game where no punches are withheld.
Ofter a day at spent exchanging pleasantries with people who'd do anything within the confines of grey business ethics to screw you, but still smile when shaking your hand.
I find it somewhat refreshing to log onto a world where others can skip the pleasantries and be brutally honest about their intentions to break you, & you may return the sentiment. Not to say that 2 faced people dont exist in eve, who hide behind corp/ally politics shaking your hand while holding a back destined knife in the other... but at least the option use the knife is there.
Infact the greater the chance that my actions here might affect someones mood or even cause them emotional grief in RL, the bigger the turn on for me. And the knowledge that I can fall victim to the same only increases the rush.
Selinate
#1173 - 2012-03-30 21:28:03 UTC
Azran Zala wrote:
Selinate wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Selinate wrote:
If CCP puts him back on the CSM or lifts his ban before 30 days, I'm unsubbing and taking a hiatus again. I am not too big on playing games where this kind of behavior is allowed.

Think it very likely CCP will change their call on something like this just because *forumragetears*? Yea, me neither.


No, I don't, but I am just stating my position on the chance that they do, and hope that others have the sense to do the same. I'd rather play WoW than play a game where this kind of behavior is allowed.


Interesting, I kind of favour a game where no punches are withheld.
Ofter a day at spent exchanging pleasantries with people who'd do anything within the confines of grey business ethics to screw you, but still smile when shaking your hand.
I find it somewhat refreshing to log onto a world where others can skip the pleasantries and be brutally honest about their intentions to break you, & you may return the sentiment. Not to say that 2 faced people dont exist in eve, who hide behind corp/ally politics shaking your hand while holding a back destined knife in the other... but at least the option use the knife is there.
Infact the greater the chance that my actions here might affect someones mood or even cause them emotional grief in RL, the bigger the turn on for me. And the knowledge that I can fall victim to the same only increases the rush.


You and I are talking about 2 completely different things. I am ok with scamming, lying, cheating betrayal in Eve and all of that.

What I do not accept is idiot players harassing other players and encouraging other players to harass that player in order to make them commit suicide. There is a line to be drawn here.
Everial
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1174 - 2012-03-30 22:06:03 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
Following the Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012, an incident was broadcast live on air by a panelist during the Q&A which broke the EVE Online EULA/TOS. The panelist was a member of the CSM who has subsequently resigned from CSM6 and, as a result, will resign his seat on CSM7. GM Salmon, VP of Customer Relations, provides more detail in this blog.

Update: CCP Xhagen has posted some answers to common questions in the thread.



CCP's arbitrary application of their EULA and TOS reveals an endemic problem with their community relations wing. It is a years long issue that started with the T20 controversy and is revived each time you ban a critic. Your failure is comprehensive, your professionalism laughable, your future bleak.
Draknishar
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1175 - 2012-03-30 22:23:37 UTC
Personaly I feel CCP should be held responsible for this if anyone. Alternatively he should have been stoped in his tracks and told then and there that what he was doing was unacceptable and to stay clear of things like that.

I feel this is just CCP covering their ass 'cause alot of gaming sites posted about it.
Pasen Haas
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1176 - 2012-03-30 22:33:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Pasen Haas
I like it when CCP go out of they're way to make the game enjoyable, then turn around and do stupid crap. Like this, and renaming all the missiles to stupid stuff >.< I CANT FIND MY DAMN HEAVIES!

Also, ..I., - right up you ccp.

Edit: Forgot... Banning Mittens is also STUPID!
Joepopo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1177 - 2012-03-30 22:37:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Joepopo
Issler Dainze wrote:
I support this decision completely.

It is sad Mittens displayed such poor judgement that required this action on the part of CCP but this was the minimum required to restore the integrity of the CSM in the eyes of the majority of the players of Eve and to show the outside world CCP took this indecent seriously.

Thank you CCP for making what must have been a very hard call and getting it right.

Issler


Now that mittani is out, it is up to you to make CSM7 successful. So far I only saw you and DariusIII being unsupportive of your fellow CSM member. This is not right and you shall not publicly diminish the other CSM member. This is, my good sir, a troll attitude. It shows nothing but disorder and tension within the CSM. Next time you have a problem in the CSM, please keep it quiet.

CSM6 was very successul and set the game back on the right track. We are expecting no less from you now. Don't disapoint us. I don't care really if it is you or mittani who fixes the game for everyone, I just want the job done. And The Mittani, although you may find him too hard on afk miner, had the job done.
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#1178 - 2012-03-30 22:44:14 UTC
Everial wrote:
CCP's arbitrary application of their EULA and TOS reveals an endemic problem with their community relations wing. It is a years long issue that started with the T20 controversy and is revived each time you ban a critic. Your failure is comprehensive, your professionalism laughable, your future bleak.

Just keep paying that subscription fee sweetie!

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1179 - 2012-03-30 23:55:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Azran Zala
Selinate wrote:
I am ok with scamming, lying, cheating betrayal in Eve and all of that.

What I do not accept is idiot players harassing other players and encouraging other players to harass that player in order to make them commit suicide. There is a line to be drawn here.


Fair enough, I guess his comment would have been completely fine if he said (ingame) at the end of it then. Straight

The Mittani: Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself... ingame..., his name is The Wiz. Its “T-H-E SPACE W-I-S”. He has his own corp. Find him.

Amazing the importance and power of a single omitted word.
Alexandr Kerensky
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1180 - 2012-03-31 00:00:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexandr Kerensky
Why is this not 60 pages yet!? WHY!!???1111!1! Evil

Edit: YAY!!! Big smile