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High sec suicide ganking is...

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Seraph IX Basarab
Astrology Club.
Insidious.
#1 - 2011-09-26 07:35:03 UTC
...stupid. I've never been on the receiving end but it totally breaks game immersion. You have 5 or so guys in destroyers worth a couple mil, blow up a hauler worth much more, CONCORD comes in, kills the gankers, and then they come in with their alts to pick up the loot. It just seems lame. It doesn't seem like the game mechanics are actually good behind this, or how CONCORD works in general.


First off I think CONCORD shouldn't be an insta death. They should be aggressive and capable NPC ships which you CAN get away from or even fight until they bring reinforcements. CONCORD doesn't just insta appear anywhere and everywhere. Based on the security level (1.0-0.5) they take a certain amount of time to appear. Bubbles should be allowed in Empire so that CONCORD can actually bubble gates (perhaps the gates do it by themselves with a crime has been comited) and catch the people trying to get away. Also there should be variations as well within each system as to how CONCORD responds. You gank outside a station, you're pretty much going to see CONCORD in 2 seconds. You do something at an asteroid belt, you have more leeway.

Secondly, anybody who commits a crime in high sec should be banned from high sec for a period of time. (I don't mean literally banned you can't enter but if you try to come in you're going to get attacked by NPCs.) Say Joe pirate and his gang suicide gank a hauler. Their ships get caught by CONCORD and they die. They use their alts to scoop up loot. Good job Joe pirate. Guess what? You're now banned from entering high sec for a month with that character. As a result high sec suicide ganking doesn't stop all together, but it makes it much more difficult and much more rare.

Concerning the point about being able to fight and get away from CONCORD, what stops a powerful alliance from simply attacking and killing CONCORD in Jita and have a massive battle? CONCORD super carriers. Getting away is also difficult. The gates themselves could launch bubbles around them and instead of just doing damage to criminals, perhaps make use of 30km range stasis webs. Only the fastest of frigates could get away putting more importance on pirates flying speedy frigates to kill and get away as fast as possible.

And with all of this in place I see no reason why we can't allow all weapons in empire (bombs anybody?) to be used.

Lastly, I think low sec should be expanded to border every region. This way moving from region to region has a bit more risk, or at least certain regions. It makes trade too easy I think. And in this way concepts such as actual escorting can be viable more so than it is now.

Just my two cents on some mechanics.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#2 - 2011-09-26 07:48:05 UTC
in before...

this post is
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
...stupid.


but really i think only these two:

Seraph IX Basarab wrote:

Secondly, anybody who commits a crime in high sec should be banned from high sec for a period of time. (I don't mean literally banned you can't enter but if you try to come in you're going to get attacked by NPCs.) Say Joe pirate and his gang suicide gank a hauler. Their ships get caught by CONCORD and they die. They use their alts to scoop up loot. Good job Joe pirate. Guess what? You're now banned from entering high sec for a month with that character. As a result high sec suicide ganking doesn't stop all together, but it makes it much more difficult and much more rare.

Lastly, I think low sec should be expanded to border every region. This way moving from region to region has a bit more risk, or at least certain regions. It makes trade too easy I think. And in this way concepts such as actual escorting can be viable more so than it is now.

Just my two cents on some mechanics.



have any plausibility to them. If yo make concord anything less then insta-kill then I GUARANTEE an alliance big enough will over run a system because you're underestimating the ability of the players to pull something off like that. If they dont straight up win then they will at least succeed in making the lag of the system 5 times worse then Jita for all the concord spawns trying to fight them off

and btw CONCORD is already scaled for the sec status...0.5 suicide are much easier because of this...

The Drake is a Lie
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-09-26 07:51:00 UTC
"I've never been on the receiving end but it totally breaks game immersion."

I have, it's what immortal sky pilots do to each other for all kinds of reasons

"It just seems lame."

Yep, sometimes, if it's for cruel laughs and not tactical at all.

Maybe you weren't around when some people BBQ'd CONCORD.

Your mechanics suggestions wiould turn hisec into 0.0, so, um, no. The turmoil resulting from a 'nerf CONCORD' would be unhelpful in the extreme. Is this a troll? It's a troll, right?

Not sure if trolling.

Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-09-26 07:52:20 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
lollerblades



don't tell me the alt that lost that 15bil estamel invuln that was being transported in a noobship was yoursLol

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Naran Eto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-09-26 07:59:22 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
...stupid. I've never been on the receiving end but it totally breaks game immersion. You have 5 or so guys in destroyers worth a couple mil, blow up a hauler worth much more, CONCORD comes in, kills the gankers, and then they come in with their alts to pick up the loot. It just seems lame. It doesn't seem like the game mechanics are actually good behind this, or how CONCORD works in general.


First off I think CONCORD shouldn't be an insta death. They should be aggressive and capable NPC ships which you CAN get away from or even fight until they bring reinforcements. CONCORD doesn't just insta appear anywhere and everywhere. Based on the security level (1.0-0.5) they take a certain amount of time to appear. Bubbles should be allowed in Empire so that CONCORD can actually bubble gates (perhaps the gates do it by themselves with a crime has been comited) and catch the people trying to get away. Also there should be variations as well within each system as to how CONCORD responds. You gank outside a station, you're pretty much going to see CONCORD in 2 seconds. You do something at an asteroid belt, you have more leeway.

Secondly, anybody who commits a crime in high sec should be banned from high sec for a period of time. (I don't mean literally banned you can't enter but if you try to come in you're going to get attacked by NPCs.) Say Joe pirate and his gang suicide gank a hauler. Their ships get caught by CONCORD and they die. They use their alts to scoop up loot. Good job Joe pirate. Guess what? You're now banned from entering high sec for a month with that character. As a result high sec suicide ganking doesn't stop all together, but it makes it much more difficult and much more rare.

Concerning the point about being able to fight and get away from CONCORD, what stops a powerful alliance from simply attacking and killing CONCORD in Jita and have a massive battle? CONCORD super carriers. Getting away is also difficult. The gates themselves could launch bubbles around them and instead of just doing damage to criminals, perhaps make use of 30km range stasis webs. Only the fastest of frigates could get away putting more importance on pirates flying speedy frigates to kill and get away as fast as possible.

And with all of this in place I see no reason why we can't allow all weapons in empire (bombs anybody?) to be used.

Lastly, I think low sec should be expanded to border every region. This way moving from region to region has a bit more risk, or at least certain regions. It makes trade too easy I think. And in this way concepts such as actual escorting can be viable more so than it is now.

Just my two cents on some mechanics.


Erm some of those mechanics you are asking for are pretty much how it works anyway lol!

1. CONCORD does take time to appear, the higher the sec the faster they appear, they also respond faster if they are close by in the area, a well known tactic for miners in belts is to take a low skilled alt in a starter ship and attack their main in the belt, CONCORD will respond and will hang around for some time making their response time quicker.
2. Should be banned from high sec for doing things worng? You already are, it's called security status, the moree you do bad things the lower it gets eventually you will be KOS in high sec.
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#6 - 2011-09-26 08:01:58 UTC
Bombs ARE allowed to be used in high-sec. What do you think popped your velator?

The last thing this game needs is more pandering to babbies.

♥ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥
Psychophantic
#7 - 2011-09-26 08:12:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Psychophantic
Just be thankful that you have Concord at all.

It'd be like the early days of UO otherwise. You'd be ganked by grief kiddies as soon as you stepped outside.

I've lost an industry alt with a set of +5's and 600m worth of wires to a random bomber with -10 sec who made it to a .8 sec system.

Life goes on.
Naran Eto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-09-26 08:18:35 UTC
Psychophantic wrote:


It'd be like the early days of UO otherwise. You'd be ganked by grief kiddies as soon as you stepped outside.



Oh god that brings back memories, remember the PK'ers and their little scams?

Before runebooks they used to lure you into a house and plonk a bookcase down infront lof the door so they could kill you without having to chase you, when vendors were introduced and they all had individual names instead of "vendor" PK's would dress up as vendors and stand on the porch of a house waiting for someone to come along and try to look at "what they're selling" then attack them. Remeber trapped bags dropped outside the vaults and pickpockets standing outside the bank.... I used to run with an axe weilding stealther mage with a backpack of axes posioned by my alt... stealth stealth attack poison teleport stealth .. good times! :D
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#9 - 2011-09-26 08:21:36 UTC
Concord didn't always instapop you. You use to be able to tank them, needless to say that didn't go very well.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2011-09-26 08:28:15 UTC
It's something unpredictable
but in the end it's right
I hope you had the time of your life


If EVE wasn't cruel, making me a MAD BRO at times and fearing losing ****, it would not be worth playing.

I need my doze of getting kicked in the virtual balls, because our western RL society does not do that.

.
Ezurae
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-09-26 08:32:14 UTC
ok so you are suggesting to make concord not instadeath but then because ppl shouldnt be able to escape the gates should be bubbled (yeah those other players will be really thankful, great idea brainiac). i think guaranteed death without annoying the other 10 innocent guys on the gate is much better.
and ppl should be attacked by npcs if they do commit crime and come back to highsec later. hmm i thought we already had that but maybe its just me...
oh and using bombs in empire, wow that might be new. oh wait.....
thanks for flawed ideas and suggesting stuff we already have ^^
baltec1
Bat Country
The Initiative.
#12 - 2011-09-26 09:07:48 UTC
Bubbles everywhere on the jita 4-4 undock!
Jokerface666
Intergalactic Expeditionary Corp
#13 - 2011-09-26 11:10:58 UTC
Concord WAS tankable,
CCP made them UEBERDEATH becouse it was possible to tank concord with a HUGE amount of ligistics. some guys did it and just poped everything in sight. as i remember.

It works how it should, do not fly someting you can't efford to loose, this includes even the cargo!
pussnheels
Viziam
#14 - 2011-09-26 11:40:38 UTC
one question back to the OP

Would you carry a freight worth a couple 100 millions in a untanked hauler , or mine in semi AFK in a complete untanked hulk

Anybody doing that deserves to be ganked
If i ever had to chance i would do it again and take the standing hit

END sttement

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Gealbhan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-09-26 12:19:38 UTC
Rule 1: Never fly what you cannot afford to lose.

All other rules are a variation of this.
Seraph IX Basarab
Astrology Club.
Insidious.
#16 - 2011-09-26 12:52:41 UTC
Thank you for the few intelligent and relevant replies. What?

First off, I spend most my time in null but i'm pretty sure you can't use bombs in high sec.

Secondly, what I meant about people getting "banned" from high sec for a certain amount of time I am not talking about the current mechanics. If your sec status is 10 and you do a crime you go down to 6 or whatever. Even so you should be attacked by NPCs in Empire for a certain amount of period regardless of your sec status.

My whole goal is to stop making CONCORD a game mechanic and have it act more like a more natural part of the game.
Gregor Palter
#17 - 2011-09-26 12:59:31 UTC
High sec suicide is Darwinism, of which there isn't nearly enough of these days.

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#18 - 2011-09-26 13:03:26 UTC

High sec seems as balanced as it possible can be in a "100% PvP" game. If anything, it's the existence of Concorde at all that breaks the sandbox immersion.

I think CCP does a pretty good job of coddling the high sec playstyle and punishing players who are playing within the realm of true sandbox immersion (highsec pirates) with the current mechanics.

CCP has no real choice in this matter, as highsec players pay the bills. Doesn't mean they have to abandon the true nature of the game entirely, though.

KB


Dum Spiro Spero
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#19 - 2011-09-26 13:03:35 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Thank you for the few intelligent and relevant replies. What?

First off, I spend most my time in null but i'm pretty sure you can't use bombs in high sec..


Stealth bomber bombs: no

Smartbombs: yes
Seraph IX Basarab
Astrology Club.
Insidious.
#20 - 2011-09-26 13:07:49 UTC
Linda Shadowborn wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Thank you for the few intelligent and relevant replies. What?

First off, I spend most my time in null but i'm pretty sure you can't use bombs in high sec..


Stealth bomber bombs: no

Smartbombs: yes



Yeah nobody cares about smart bombs on this side of the conversation. Was referring to actual bombs. I like flying SBs for the bomb launcher. But you can't use it in Empire for what I assume the reason being is high sec suicide ganking. Imagine dropping 20-30 bombs outside of Jita 4-4 station during prime time.

KaarBaak wrote:

High sec seems as balanced as it possible can be in a "100% PvP" game. If anything, it's the existence of Concorde at all that breaks the sandbox immersion.

I think CCP does a pretty good job of coddling the high sec playstyle and punishing players who are playing within the realm of true sandbox immersion (highsec pirates) with the current mechanics.

CCP has no real choice in this matter, as highsec players pay the bills. Doesn't mean they have to abandon the true nature of the game entirely, though.

KB




I think there's a wee bit too much high sec in this game. The fact that you can get to all the major trading hubs without going outside of high sec is lame to me.
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