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New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

First post First post
Author
Pyro Tsu
Sarum Industries
#1101 - 2012-03-30 00:48:27 UTC
The entire CSM7 should do one thing on their first day: step down - and refuse to reassemble. If they feel that CCP's reaction is too harsh and/or not backed up by the written rules.

But after all, hasn't "he" been a lawyer? I am looking forward to his response. I would not be surprised if he referenced one of the principles of Roman Law... We'll see.

http://tsu.sarumindustries.de/

Kosh Seere
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1102 - 2012-03-30 00:49:04 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Alex/Mittens supporters....



















































End your subscriptions.


Go skill yourself.

Skill yourself!

Aiden Andraste
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1103 - 2012-03-30 00:52:32 UTC
Kosh Seere wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Hurr durrr goonie hate.


Go skill yourself.

Alternatively, get thrilled by a speeding bus.
Aiden Andraste
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1104 - 2012-03-30 00:56:23 UTC
Pyro Tsu wrote:
The entire CSM7 should do one thing on their first day: step down - and refuse to reassemble. If they feel that CCP's reaction is too harsh and/or not backed up by the written rules.

But after all, hasn't "he" been a lawyer? I am looking forward to his response. I would not be surprised if he referenced one of the principles of Roman Law... We'll see.

Here's hoping that the current CSM sees what a grand catastrophic error they made in completely removing him from the CSM. He already posted a response, Pyro. He made a mumble speech to his coalition yesterday. Dont have a link handy, it's posted on many sites that host eve stuff.
Aramis Rosicrux
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
#1105 - 2012-03-30 01:00:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Aramis Rosicrux
Keep the game fair!

Support Space Science!! Join the Planetary Society!

planetarysociety.org

==============

About Aramis Rosicrux

My EveBoard Signature PNG

lol fourm troll
Doomheim
#1106 - 2012-03-30 01:06:19 UTC
Aramis Rosicrux wrote:
First, Mittens is a self-involved prlck and I hope he emofart/ragequits and I never have to deal with him again... but:

CCP's actions are arrogant, arbitrary and a slap in the face to the playerbase.

Consider: CCP makes the game rules so damn mean that people want to kill themselves over losses in the game, but then blames an alliance leader for following your play style set up?

How can you be such hypocrites?

Mittens may deserve a reminder, but it is YOU, the DEVS and GM's that make us want to slash our wrists when we get ganked. I don't blame Goons for playing the game, I blame you for making the game so mean spirited.

Look, I love Eve, and I will miss it when it goes, but you got to be fairer than this.

Un-Ban Mittens and restore his position as CSM chair. Anything less makes you guilty of everything you accuse him of.

Eve: The Anti-Social MMO.

Is not each player in control of there own actions? How is giving a player the choice to gank someone the devs fault? The player who ganks you was fully aware and in control of there desicion. The only mean spirited players are the ones who want to be mean spirited.
Moon Kitten
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1107 - 2012-03-30 01:09:49 UTC
Jason1138 wrote:
"Harassment via in game mechanics is fine*, meta harassment is not."


giving out a toon's name is in game by definition though, right?


if he gave out the guy's real life name and phone number then obviously that's wrong but to sit there and say "this guy (toon's name) is dumb, ********, a crybaby, etc, go mess with him in game until he cries/kills himself/quits the game, etc" is something we've all seen thousands of times

in fact, it is all but the stated purpose for the game's existence.


This is what I never understood about this fuss. He gave out a -character- name. He did not give any personal information out. He gave out a character name and told people to go **** with him. Maybe he did it awkwardly and offensively but there was never any intent for griefing of "wis" to be taken out of the game. Mittani was suggesting he be messed with -within- the confines of Eve.

Obviously I'm more likely to give Mittens the benefit of the doubt than people that hate him but to me it always felt like he intended it to mean "**** with these players" not "**** with these real life people". I personally prefer to separate real life and the game so if someone (especially a stranger) sends me a long evemail with personal details I will try my best to treat it like something in game and not some truthful statements about a real life person because I have no context by which to judge it in that light. As a result I would think nothing about replying to an evemail about depression with "just kill yourself." Hell, who hasn't self-destructed within the game before?

I just feel like his punishment would have been deserved if he had given out an email address or said "Hey this guy is 34 years old, lives with his mother, and is a massive nerd". Instead he made fun of an in game message, in a forum about the game it was received in, and gave out his in game character.

I do understand that the only reason it's taken seriously is the CCP policy of assuming anything relating to suicide is automatically understood in an out of game context for safety, but did Mittani know that? I didn't, until the events of this, and it would never have crossed my mind that saying "I cannot believe you won't reimburse my mission ship, I've had enough and this is the final straw, I'm going to kill myself because why continue?" to a GM in a petition would be seen as an actual real world cry for help. But then that's because I assume things in the game are in the game and not otherwise. I see nothing wrong with telling someone -in game- that I am suicidal because they are holding me ransom in the hope they feel soft and let me go.

I think that's the crux of my disappointment with the handling of this, combined with the nullification of my votes completely. Like most people in Goonfleet this doesn't make me feel like unsubscribing because most of us understand that the real world is tricky and just because someone makes a decision you disagree with and think is idiotic doesn't make them a terrible person or mean you should quit in a huff.
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1108 - 2012-03-30 01:10:37 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
CCP Xhagen wrote:

Q2, There is an issue of 10,058 votes. What will CCP do about that?
A2, As in most democratic societies, if an elected member resigns the governance system is designed to handle that; for CSM6 the "next" person steps in (an alternate); for CSM7, where we had removed the concept of ‘alternate’ and increased the size of the CSM to 14, the council simply continues to function minus one. If players are not satisfied with that system they should contact the CSM and propose changes for CSM 7 to discuss formally. The CSM can bring this issue up directly with CCP and propose changes should such an event happen in the future.
It is clear from many communications from CSM6 and CSM7-elect members that they take the representation of these 10,058 voters very seriously and hopefully the remaining CSM representatives will act in the spirit of those who voted for the resigned member.


Deal with it now. You removed our candidate, not the CSM. You disenfranchised us, and as a result you're going to fix it for us.


Eve is a game focusing on a harsh environment where you are never safe and no one is truly your friend.

Deal with it, pubbie.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.

Swearte Widfarend
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#1109 - 2012-03-30 01:14:15 UTC
lol fourm troll wrote:
Aramis Rosicrux wrote:
First, Mittens is a self-involved prlck and I hope he emofart/ragequits and I never have to deal with him again... but:

CCP's actions are arrogant, arbitrary and a slap in the face to the playerbase.

Consider: CCP makes the game rules so damn mean that people want to kill themselves over losses in the game, but then blames an alliance leader for following your play style set up?

How can you be such hypocrites?

Mittens may deserve a reminder, but it is YOU, the DEVS and GM's that make us want to slash our wrists when we get ganked. I don't blame Goons for playing the game, I blame you for making the game so mean spirited.

Look, I love Eve, and I will miss it when it goes, but you got to be fairer than this.

Un-Ban Mittens and restore his position as CSM chair. Anything less makes you guilty of everything you accuse him of.

Eve: The Anti-Social MMO.

Is not each player in control of there own actions? How is giving a player the choice to gank someone the devs fault? The player who ganks you was fully aware and in control of there desicion. The only mean spirited players are the ones who want to be mean spirited.


I find this funny coming from an obvious alt. Almost as funny as the post you replied to.

EVE, like the internet, allows you to hide behind a different face, a different name. You are no different, hiding there behind your NPC corp alt. Why do you not post with your main, the character you should be proud of?

CCP did what they think was right. I don't disagree with their actions as a whole, but with the single inaction that has disenfranchised 10,000 paid accounts who voted for a candidate who never got to even take office.

A special continuation of the CSM election should be opened, with the 10,058 (or whatever) who voted for The Mittani having their votes reset, and the option to apply those votes to a new candidate. Any others who had not voted and were eligible during the elections would also be able to vote, but those whose votes were cast for any other candidate would have those votes stand.

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.

Frying Doom
#1110 - 2012-03-30 01:30:06 UTC
Swearte Widfarend wrote:

CCP did what they think was right. I don't disagree with their actions as a whole, but with the single inaction that has disenfranchised 10,000 paid accounts who voted for a candidate who never got to even take office.

Next year just vote for someone who isn't going to do something so stupid. Your Votes are precious, you wasted them.

~Deal with it~

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Kosh Seere
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1111 - 2012-03-30 01:48:08 UTC
Anya Klibor wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
CCP Xhagen wrote:

CCP words


Deal with it now. You removed our candidate, not the CSM. You disenfranchised us, and as a result you're going to fix it for us.


Eve is a game focusing on a harsh environment where you are never safe and no one is truly your friend.

Deal with it, pubbie.

/facepalm

Skill yourself!

Jason1138
The Catalina Wine Mixer
#1112 - 2012-03-30 02:02:07 UTC
"Eve is a game focusing on a harsh environment where you are never safe and no one is truly your friend"



CCP apparently disagrees. We're all friends here right guys? Just playing our game and fostering a sense of community, right?




I have no idea how you can have devs reply to bug reports with "harden the **** up" or "we don't care", have a CEO who basically says "go screw yourself customer base" on more than one occasion, but then they try to spin this BS like they're the family friendly MMO and they won't tolerate anyone's feelings being hurt

its ridiculous and presumes a level of utter stupidity on the customer's part that I find more insulting than CCP's utter hostility those same customers. Hello? We've been playing your game for more than 2 weeks, we all know everyone here revels in acting like A-holes and that sort of thing is encouraged in every single facet of the game by the devs, on purpose. Why are you trying to pussy out on it now?
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#1113 - 2012-03-30 02:34:15 UTC
Anya Klibor wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
CCP Xhagen wrote:

Q2, There is an issue of 10,058 votes. What will CCP do about that?
A2, As in most democratic societies, if an elected member resigns the governance system is designed to handle that; for CSM6 the "next" person steps in (an alternate); for CSM7, where we had removed the concept of ‘alternate’ and increased the size of the CSM to 14, the council simply continues to function minus one. If players are not satisfied with that system they should contact the CSM and propose changes for CSM 7 to discuss formally. The CSM can bring this issue up directly with CCP and propose changes should such an event happen in the future.
It is clear from many communications from CSM6 and CSM7-elect members that they take the representation of these 10,058 voters very seriously and hopefully the remaining CSM representatives will act in the spirit of those who voted for the resigned member.


Deal with it now. You removed our candidate, not the CSM. You disenfranchised us, and as a result you're going to fix it for us.


Eve is a game focusing on a harsh environment where you are never safe and no one is truly your friend.

Deal with it, pubbie.


Don't you sit on the Dodi undock all day?

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX

Judge Cyclonite
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1114 - 2012-03-30 03:04:02 UTC
Bwhaahaha... Goodswarm and all the 0,0 pricks got ganked by CCP... I will call this 2012 CSMageddon "1028 Null Tears". Who do I send the prize isk to? Are you mad bro? Why you mad?
Tsalaroth
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1115 - 2012-03-30 04:54:50 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
CCP Xhagen wrote:
Since the chair resigned from CSM 6 prior to being banned and was not yet seated on CSM 7 he will be able to run for future CSMs.


That is a very poor decision that CCP in general should probably reconsider over the year to come. An individual's noteriety/prominence should never overcome the basic requirement to be a player of good standing and reputation (ie without serious infractions on the account.)

The way you've stated it there just sounds like a shady legal loophole and it will be seen as such.



I hope you don't ever get drunk, make a mistake, and get banned, then. What he did was horrible, agreed, but this attitude is more like a damned witch hunt than seeking justice. He quit as chairman, got banned AND removed from CSM7. Now you want him banned from the CSM for life?

Even if I hated the guy, you'd have driven me to his side with this revolting example of an attempted rail-roading.
lol fourm troll
Doomheim
#1116 - 2012-03-30 04:55:31 UTC
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
lol fourm troll wrote:
Aramis Rosicrux wrote:
First, Mittens is a self-involved prlck and I hope he emofart/ragequits and I never have to deal with him again... but:

CCP's actions are arrogant, arbitrary and a slap in the face to the playerbase.

Consider: CCP makes the game rules so damn mean that people want to kill themselves over losses in the game, but then blames an alliance leader for following your play style set up?

How can you be such hypocrites?

Mittens may deserve a reminder, but it is YOU, the DEVS and GM's that make us want to slash our wrists when we get ganked. I don't blame Goons for playing the game, I blame you for making the game so mean spirited.

Look, I love Eve, and I will miss it when it goes, but you got to be fairer than this.

Un-Ban Mittens and restore his position as CSM chair. Anything less makes you guilty of everything you accuse him of.

Eve: The Anti-Social MMO.

Is not each player in control of there own actions? How is giving a player the choice to gank someone the devs fault? The player who ganks you was fully aware and in control of there desicion. The only mean spirited players are the ones who want to be mean spirited.


I find this funny coming from an obvious alt. Almost as funny as the post you replied to.

EVE, like the internet, allows you to hide behind a different face, a different name. You are no different, hiding there behind your NPC corp alt. Why do you not post with your main, the character you should be proud of?

CCP did what they think was right. I don't disagree with their actions as a whole, but with the single inaction that has disenfranchised 10,000 paid accounts who voted for a candidate who never got to even take office.

A special continuation of the CSM election should be opened, with the 10,058 (or whatever) who voted for The Mittani having their votes reset, and the option to apply those votes to a new candidate. Any others who had not voted and were eligible during the elections would also be able to vote, but those whose votes were cast for any other candidate would have those votes stand.

I try to avoid posting with my main when goons are involved, a wrong statement could get you war deced for a while. But i do post with my main.
Wolfduke
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1117 - 2012-03-30 06:05:39 UTC
CCP Xhagen wrote:
Marketing spin and random bullshit


I would tell you were to stick this load of nonsense but the last time I spoke out I got censored.
Ivana Twinkle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1118 - 2012-03-30 06:19:01 UTC
Would posting about how much I admire Paris Hilton result in a ban?
Random MonDistinct
Everything For Efficiency
#1119 - 2012-03-30 06:39:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Random MonDistinct
"10,000 votes wasted".....
It is very unlikely he will get those 10000 votes if CCP run voting now.
And, it is very likely that some of pilots voted for him would feel like **** if he gets into CSM despite the incident.

But it could be very interesting experiment to restart CSM election & to see opinion of players AFTER this incident.
Not those few on forums but bulk of community.

I wonder if we really want a person not able to remember his own last day actions (as follows from his public apology) to be leading CSM ? Blink
Foodpimp
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1120 - 2012-03-30 06:40:55 UTC
Mittens did what mittens does. There may have been some booze (which we see the boy clearly can't hold), but the words and actions are all his. The only thing he is really upset with is that he showed his arse in public. To paraphrase CCP...Mittani-----working as intended.