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Transracial crosstraining. Buffed rewards pls.

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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#181 - 2012-03-29 01:10:32 UTC
Argaral wrote:
What's being suggested is similar to set bonus's from WoW and Star Trek online. The problem with that is again, it's an unfair advantage for no real purpose. People should get into new ships because it's what they want to enjoy and they have a different varied play style. Not because its bonus is amazing, we have enough that already.


There are set bonuses all over Eve. Matching guns with the ships they belong to, implants, etc. This isn't a set bonus. This is an additional reward for having a ship skill trained, nothing more. The OP is about finding a way to reward pilots who have more than one race trained, I merely suggested one.
Argaral
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#182 - 2012-03-29 01:31:24 UTC
I guess the best way to express what I meant is it's a set bonus that you don't risk anything for. Not the modules that get destroyed, not the implants when you're podded.
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#183 - 2012-03-29 06:00:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Crellion
Liang Nuren wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Does balance mean "it would fit my skill layout in a really sweet way"?


Yes. Yes it does. Lol

-Liang



Well ok if that is how you view this no more input from me. I have allready said a few times in here that I am NOT crosstrained. Basically 2 races for each char give or take... dunno why people find this hard to believe... In fact if this came through all the people gaily posting in this thread how happy they are that they fly all races would have an instant (small) advantage over me in every ship I can fly "at 5" as things stand now.

However it is somewhere inbuilt in these forums I guess that people only post for personal advantage and no one can care about what they think is "right". IMO if you can not be "altruistic" in an ficitional environment where can you be????

For the comments of "me with these it would be OP", dude seriously there are a few tens of thousands of players who wouldm be "OP" with better webs and they balance fine against each other... on top of it not being OP in my book but this latter one is just my personal opinion so it's neither here or there... Perhaps you 've spent too long shooting noobs and travellers in Amamake? Lol (ouch sorry could not resist P) Amamake is after all one step removed from Jita 4-4 undock PPP (just a j/k dont go all emorage on me)

Also before I bow out from this: Liang having an all-but-techI (what I said was between T1 and T2 but very close to T1) ship that requires all 5 skills is not pointless. If it went live it would be the only paradigm (I can think of) in eve where you get a (humbly) enhanced version of a vessel for no serious isk hike. In fact in a very small and reserved way it would be a revolutionary storm in a teaspoon for EvE.

I guess my view and my view alone.

EDIT: had an other look at my chars just to see how objective I am being. So Crellion has full gallente and minmattar trained AND some caldari ships though I haven't used any in pvp in aaages and have never trained for many of their vessels or been in a Falcon nor ever trained ECM and supportive skills. Not even the faintest whiff of Ammar in this char either.

My econd char, Solovej is purely Ammar, with sprinkle of Caldari (and a Tengu lol I am ashamed of this but what can you do)... So there it is. Currently I do not have any char who can fly even one of those OP vessels that I am shamelessly promoting for my personal interest... go figure...
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#184 - 2012-03-29 06:05:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Crellion
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Argaral wrote:
What's being suggested is similar to set bonus's from WoW and Star Trek online. The problem with that is again, it's an unfair advantage for no real purpose. People should get into new ships because it's what they want to enjoy and they have a different varied play style. Not because its bonus is amazing, we have enough that already.


There are set bonuses all over Eve. Matching guns with the ships they belong to, implants, etc. This isn't a set bonus. This is an additional reward for having a ship skill trained, nothing more. The OP is about finding a way to reward pilots who have more than one race trained, I merely suggested one.


Istvaan I obviously like my way. I haven't thought yours through yet. The only reason I am posting is to say that I am 99% interested in finding a reward and 1% interested in choosing what the reward will be. So all proposals are welcome for me.

Having named it "reward" above let me clarify one more thing. People think this post is about me getting a reward for a presumed crosstraining I have done. I have not done it. (+ I am not 06 player as you all say but January 05 player tyvm). I am looking for an incentive to do it in the future and that is allright, nothing wrong with that. Everybody wants an incentive to choose to train in the future one thing before something else...

EDIT: Ok having considered it a bit it is a very clever proposal IMO and combined perhpas with certificates as Liang suggsted (weeeeeee!!!!!!!! an actual point in having a certificate Shocked) it might be the solution. I also agree 10% might be a tad too much. Final thought it would have a drawback perhaps in feeding the "Omg hax only way to kill a dramiel is to be able to fly one yourself haxxsssss, sky is falling" trolls... [only way to kill a titan fleet is with 1000 Maelstroms with pilots able to fly a Titan 11111 LolLolLol ]
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#185 - 2012-03-29 07:19:21 UTC
Crellion wrote:
In fact if this came through all the people gaily posting in this thread how happy they are that they fly all races would have an instant (small) advantage over me in every ship I can fly "at 5" as things stand now.


I don't want an inbuilt advantage over you.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#186 - 2012-03-29 12:31:58 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
Haven't read the whole topic, so mainly going to answer the original post here.



Giving players a ship that is better, even remotely marginally better, than tech 1 hulls for the same price tag is defeating the very purpose of tech and power level systems we have in-game: you are allowing pilots to gain access to more efficient vessels without paying the price tag for it.

It doesn't really matter how high you set the skill training requirements, we (as the game balancing team) already have serious issues balancing tech 1 hulls to be all viable between each other and to their tech 2 / faction / tech 3 counterpart. Not only would this cause a serious reverse shift of what we are trying to achieve with the ship lines and tech revamp (please refer to the Fanfest presentation), but it would also widen and magnify the hull inconsistency gap as more and more players meet the training requirements for the ships you are suggesting in time.

Besides, this would create inconsistencies in the skill requirements. Training a skill to 5 is something required for tech 2 ships, 4 is something we envision for faction ships, while 1-3 is for tech 1 tiered hulls. As you can see requiring a skill to 5 for a tech 1 hull makes little sense and remains quite confusing.

As for creating new ships, what would be their purpose? Again, ship balance is currently a horrible mess, there is little need to add a new, specific meta-level between tech 1 and 2 when we already have faction in the middle, that can be split in two, with navy ships (slightly better than tech 1, as you suggested) and pirate ships (slightly better/specialized than tech 2).

However, there would be two ways to satisfy you by tampering with your idea a little Blink



  • Introduce more pirate ships: as they are a cross-bred of two factions altogether, they could fill some of your high-end goals: for instance Blood Raiders require both Amarr and Minmatar trained. But that is two cross-racial skill requirements, not four and we don't see any faction requiring all of these for now, except maybe Concord. However, allowing players to fly Concord vessels wouldn't end well, to put it mildly. In all cases, pirate ships have a significantly higher price tag for tech 1 ships for a reason, and that would stay that way.

  • Have bonuses not tied with spaceship command, but that benefits existing ships somehow: here we would reward players for training something on top of spaceship command skills. Basically hulls could be sorted by role, and you could then add new generic and specialization skills that give small bonuses to strengthen such roles no matter to which race it applies. Example: you could have a generic "combat ship" skill that give you X% more HP to all EVE ships sorted in this category. We are thinking on introducing that for the ship lines, but that's a very tricky move, as having new skills on such a fashion would still widen the gap between new and veteran players, while possibly unbalancing hulls further or killing fitting creativity if we done incorrectly.



Hope that helps a bit.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#187 - 2012-03-29 12:53:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzy Warstl
Argaral wrote:
I guess the best way to express what I meant is it's a set bonus that you don't risk anything for. Not the modules that get destroyed, not the implants when you're podded.

More skills => more points => more expensive medi-clone.

Skills aren't risk free.

[Edit]
To the Dev post immediately above mine:
Higher Meta modules are already rather common in the game, there is justification based on that for higher Meta ships. (note that I personally think that "kill the boss mob for the best gear" breaks the spirit of EvE, but it isn't my game to break...)

Unlike the modules, it is quite reasonable to expect those higher Meta ships to have increased skill requirements of various sorts, and the completely independent skill web of the T3 cruisers feels contrived, at best.

Expanding the role of research to allow players to produce ships that are of the same order as the existing pirate faction ships using a variation on the T2 research rules would allow for controlled introduction of more varied ships with more skills applied.

Taking it to an extreme case, with random bonuses being applied by such research it could result in a dizzying variety of ships, with the chance of losing an already valuable BPC to no gain or dubious gain being a rather effective limiter on how far players would take it.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#188 - 2012-03-29 12:56:01 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Haven't read the whole topic, so mainly going to answer the original post here.



Giving players a ship that is better, even remotely marginally better, than tech 1 hulls for the same price tag is defeating the very purpose of tech and power level systems we have in-game: you are allowing pilots to gain access to more efficient vessels without paying the price tag for it.

It doesn't really matter how high you set the skill training requirements, we (as the game balancing team) already have serious issues balancing tech 1 hulls to be all viable between each other and to their tech 2 / faction / tech 3 counterpart. Not only would this cause a serious reverse shift of what we are trying to achieve with the ship lines and tech revamp (please refer to the Fanfest presentation), but it would also widen and magnify the hull inconsistency gap as more and more players meet the training requirements for the ships you are suggesting in time.

Besides, this would create inconsistencies in the skill requirements. Training a skill to 5 is something required for tech 2 ships, 4 is something we envision for faction ships, while 1-3 is for tech 1 tiered hulls. As you can see requiring a skill to 5 for a tech 1 hull makes little sense and remains quite confusing.

As for creating new ships, what would be their purpose? Again, ship balance is currently a horrible mess, there is little need to add a new, specific meta-level between tech 1 and 2 when we already have faction in the middle, that can be split in two, with navy ships (slightly better than tech 1, as you suggested) and pirate ships (slightly better/specialized than tech 2).

However, there would be two ways to satisfy you by tampering with your idea a little Blink



  • Introduce more pirate ships: as they are a cross-bred of two factions altogether, they could fill some of your high-end goals: for instance Blood Raiders require both Amarr and Minmatar trained. But that is two cross-racial skill requirements, not four and we don't see any faction requiring all of these for now, except maybe Concord. However, allowing players to fly Concord vessels wouldn't end well, to put it mildly. In all cases, pirate ships have a significantly higher price tag for tech 1 ships for a reason, and that would stay that way.

  • Have bonuses not tied with spaceship command, but that benefits existing ships somehow: here we would reward players for training something on top of spaceship command skills. Basically hulls could be sorted by role, and you could then add new generic and specialization skills that give small bonuses to strengthen such roles no matter to which race it applies. Example: you could have a generic "combat ship" skill that give you X% more HP to all EVE ships sorted in this category. We are thinking on introducing that for the ship lines, but that's a very tricky move, as having new skills on such a fashion would still widen the gap between new and veteran players, while possibly unbalancing hulls further or killing fitting creativity if we done incorrectly.



Hope that helps a bit.


That you are actively reading these forums and threads when you reply and when you do not helps a lot.

About : "you are allowing pilots to gain access to more efficient vessels without paying the price tag for it.
It doesn't really matter how high you set the skill training requirements" this confirms my worst fears that we will continue to have to buy all advantages with isk. I am greatful however that you took the time and effort to set it out so unequivocally and I can stop banging my head against the wall.

As to the introduction of new skills to effect all (for example) combat ships I am unsure if this would address my concerns. Certainly it would, if you made it so you had to learn all races of each class to be able to acces this skill. (As then you would be forced to master all races to have this skill open to you).

(Please tell me you were not part of the ... creatively fitted Polaris fleet... Lol)
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#189 - 2012-03-29 12:59:57 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Argaral wrote:
I guess the best way to express what I meant is it's a set bonus that you don't risk anything for. Not the modules that get destroyed, not the implants when you're podded.

More skills => more points => more expensive medi-clone.

Skills aren't risk free.


A very good point. I love frig pvp but its it somehow defeats the purpose if you are sporting a 20 mill clone. Older players are (in terms of isk effectiveness) deprived of riftermania. LolLolLol
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#190 - 2012-03-29 13:01:05 UTC
Crellion wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Argaral wrote:
I guess the best way to express what I meant is it's a set bonus that you don't risk anything for. Not the modules that get destroyed, not the implants when you're podded.

More skills => more points => more expensive medi-clone.

Skills aren't risk free.


A very good point. I love frig pvp but its it somehow defeats the purpose if you are sporting a 20 mill clone. Older players are (in terms of isk effectiveness) deprived of riftermania. LolLolLol


Nonsense. Old riftermaniac pilot here. You just have to be careful. Ed: or use the large amount of ISK you'd otherwise spend on ships on clones instead.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#191 - 2012-03-29 16:14:58 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
As for creating new ships, what would be their purpose? Again, ship balance is currently a horrible mess, there is little need to add a new, specific meta-level between tech 1 and 2 when we already have faction in the middle, that can be split in two, with navy ships (slightly better than tech 1, as you suggested) and pirate ships (slightly better/specialized than tech 2).


Ytterbium: Their purpose would be to reward players who have spent years with Eve Online, and have the skillpoints to show it.

I have close to 130 million SP. In my corp, that isn't much - we have guys with 150, even a guy close to 170. We haven't felt that there were ships specifically for us FOR AGES. Titans and supercarriers do NOT interest us (except for stealing them). They aren't for us. They're awkward sluggish bricks meant to serve in alliance warfare.

The last ships I felt good about flying were the Crusader (when it came out) and the Zealot (when it came out) - why? Because when they were released, they were cutting edge. People didn't know how to counter them, they were a new power. They required lots of training to get into. These are the kind of ships I would like to see added to Eve, for us veteran badasses that ran out of skills to train ages ago.

Eve got T3 ships not too long ago. These have a very low barrier for entry. I want ships with a high skill barrier. Subcap ships meant for people like me, ships that can't be boarded unless you have over 100 million SP and all four races' ship/weapon skills maxed. Cost isn't really a balancing factor, but I wouldn't mind dropping a billion or two on something like that.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#192 - 2012-03-29 16:33:40 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Eve got T3 ships not too long ago. These have a very low barrier for entry. I want ships with a high skill barrier. Subcap ships meant for people like me, ships that can't be boarded unless you have over 100 million SP and all four races' ship/weapon skills maxed. Cost isn't really a balancing factor, but I wouldn't mind dropping a billion or two on something like that.


It's sort of a central tenet of Eve (and most multiplayer games) that anyone can compete with old players without being too disadvantaged by player age. This is achieved in Eve by having easy to train for ships, and by having the cap level for each skill at 5.

Beyond a certain point, age (and thus more skill points) means versatility, not straight-up combat advantage. It's the difference between being training to fly a Drake, or a Maelstrom, a Taranis, or a Guardian... and being able to fly any one of them you want, depending on your mood or situation.

If a new uber-high-SP tier of ships is added, all that will happen is they will become vanitymobiles. Just as a Rifter never engages a Wolf without having backup, a Wolf or a Dramiel will never engage a Bittervetfrigate without backup -- giving bittervets all the more reason to ***** and moan about how Eve is dying. Then, eventually, as with all SP and ISK balanced ships (see: Titans) these ships will become overused and will break game balance horribly.

Making them T1 is also quite possibly the worst decision so far as missions and FW are concerned. It's bad enough that pirate faction ships are allowed in the same plexes as their T1 counterparts, but something even more powerful? No.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#193 - 2012-03-29 16:44:09 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

Introduce more pirate ships: as they are a cross-bred of two factions altogether, they could fill some of your high-end goals: for instance Blood Raiders require both Amarr and Minmatar trained. But that is two cross-racial skill requirements, not four and we don't see any faction requiring all of these for now, except maybe Concord. However, allowing players to fly Concord vessels wouldn't end well, to put it mildly. In all cases, pirate ships have a significantly higher price tag for tech 1 ships for a reason, and that would stay that way.


I'm all for more faction ships. YAY MORE SHIPS!

Quote:

Have bonuses not tied with spaceship command, but that benefits existing ships somehow: here we would reward players for training something on top of spaceship command skills. Basically hulls could be sorted by role, and you could then add new generic and specialization skills that give small bonuses to strengthen such roles no matter to which race it applies. Example: you could have a generic "combat ship" skill that give you X% more HP to all EVE ships sorted in this category. We are thinking on introducing that for the ship lines, but that's a very tricky move, as having new skills on such a fashion would still widen the gap between new and veteran players, while possibly unbalancing hulls further or killing fitting creativity if we done incorrectly.


I'm not a fan of this, despite it having been pitched in the Tiericide dev blog. My core objection is that I can immediately start training these skills while a new player is still trying to get cruiser 5 or HAC 5 or BC 5 or CS 5. This temporarily increases my SP advantage.... but at least it has the benefit of being only temporary. Still, its confusion I'd rather avoid - the current system works fine without these special skills. I just don't think that older players need bigger advantages because of higher SP. :(

Also, I don't think this would give any particular reason for the OP to cross train. I guess we're stuck with awesome new ships! Twisted

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#194 - 2012-03-29 16:57:15 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

Quote:

Have bonuses not tied with spaceship command, but that benefits existing ships somehow: here we would reward players for training something on top of spaceship command skills. Basically hulls could be sorted by role, and you could then add new generic and specialization skills that give small bonuses to strengthen such roles no matter to which race it applies. Example: you could have a generic "combat ship" skill that give you X% more HP to all EVE ships sorted in this category. We are thinking on introducing that for the ship lines, but that's a very tricky move, as having new skills on such a fashion would still widen the gap between new and veteran players, while possibly unbalancing hulls further or killing fitting creativity if we done incorrectly.


I'm not a fan of this, despite it having been pitched in the Tiericide dev blog. My core objection is that I can immediately start training these skills while a new player is still trying to get cruiser 5 or HAC 5 or BC 5 or CS 5. This temporarily increases my SP advantage.... but at least it has the benefit of being only temporary. Still, its confusion I'd rather avoid - the current system works fine without these special skills. I just don't think that older players need bigger advantages because of higher SP. :(

Also, I don't think this would give any particular reason for the OP to cross train. I guess we're stuck with awesome new ships! Twisted

-Liang

If the "Ship Line" skills didn't require {Racial} Ships 5 to train, it could actually be something of an equalizer, as a new character could train Frigate 4 and Combat Ships 4 and have a very effective PvP platform to work from in short order.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#195 - 2012-03-29 17:03:06 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
As for creating new ships, what would be their purpose? Again, ship balance is currently a horrible mess, there is little need to add a new, specific meta-level between tech 1 and 2 when we already have faction in the middle, that can be split in two, with navy ships (slightly better than tech 1, as you suggested) and pirate ships (slightly better/specialized than tech 2).


Ytterbium: Their purpose would be to reward players who have spent years with Eve Online, and have the skillpoints to show it.

I have close to 130 million SP. In my corp, that isn't much - we have guys with 150, even a guy close to 170. We haven't felt that there were ships specifically for us FOR AGES. Titans and supercarriers do NOT interest us (except for stealing them). They aren't for us. They're awkward sluggish bricks meant to serve in alliance warfare.

The last ships I felt good about flying were the Crusader (when it came out) and the Zealot (when it came out) - why? Because when they were released, they were cutting edge. People didn't know how to counter them, they were a new power. They required lots of training to get into. These are the kind of ships I would like to see added to Eve, for us veteran badasses that ran out of skills to train ages ago.

Eve got T3 ships not too long ago. These have a very low barrier for entry. I want ships with a high skill barrier. Subcap ships meant for people like me, ships that can't be boarded unless you have over 100 million SP and all four races' ship/weapon skills maxed. Cost isn't really a balancing factor, but I wouldn't mind dropping a billion or two on something like that.


I totally get where you're coming from there. I'm sitting at ~80M+ SP and the only subcap thing left for me to train is Black Ops. And even that's just a few million SP in navigation for JDC5 and friends. These days I just log in and set a skill - I literally nave no idea what Liang is training right now.

And ultimately, what you really want isn't even close to what the OP wants - he wants a reason to cross train where you just want a reason to keep training.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#196 - 2012-03-29 17:03:12 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
If the "Ship Line" skills didn't require {Racial} Ships 5 to train, it could actually be something of an equalizer, as a new character could train Frigate 4 and Combat Ships 4 and have a very effective PvP platform to work from in short order.


Even so, the time anyone can spend training is finite. When that theoretical skill is introduced, vets can just immediately train it, while current and future newbies have an even bigger barrier to get into PvP because of yet another required boilerplate skill. Similar situation to learning skills.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#197 - 2012-03-29 22:31:08 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I totally get where you're coming from there. I'm sitting at ~80M+ SP and the only subcap thing left for me to train is Black Ops. And even that's just a few million SP in navigation for JDC5 and friends. These days I just log in and set a skill - I literally nave no idea what Liang is training right now.


You're training EWAR drone interfacing to 4. Remember to plug something else into the queue in the next 3 hours.

Liang Nuren wrote:
And ultimately, what you really want isn't even close to what the OP wants - he wants a reason to cross train where you just want a reason to keep training.


There's definitely an argument to be made that there is a practical cap in how many sub-cap ship skills you can train. Exactly where that cap is can be debated -- probably somewhere around 120mil SP? and the last 20mil are probably all very marginal gains -- but it does exist. Sooner or later we're going to need additional sub-cap skills. But it's definitely a different discussion.
Argaral
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#198 - 2012-03-29 22:37:53 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
I totally get where you're coming from there. I'm sitting at ~80M+ SP and the only subcap thing left for me to train is Black Ops. And even that's just a few million SP in navigation for JDC5 and friends. These days I just log in and set a skill - I literally nave no idea what Liang is training right now.


You're training EWAR drone interfacing to 4. Remember to plug something else into the queue in the next 3 hours.

Liang Nuren wrote:
And ultimately, what you really want isn't even close to what the OP wants - he wants a reason to cross train where you just want a reason to keep training.


There's definitely an argument to be made that there is a practical cap in how many sub-cap ship skills you can train. Exactly where that cap is can be debated -- probably somewhere around 120mil SP? and the last 20mil are probably all very marginal gains -- but it does exist. Sooner or later we're going to need additional sub-cap skills. But it's definitely a different discussion.


I'd like to point you in this direction. Stop gap measure but it could work.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=88084. Would be an excuse to train certain Cap skills in addition to Fighters etc etc
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#199 - 2012-03-30 06:01:10 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


And ultimately, what you really want isn't even close to what the OP wants - he wants a reason to cross train where you just want a reason to keep training.

-Liang



However if you read my reply to our frindly dev (and I highly doubt you missed it) if this new skill (i.e. "combat") only applied to a combat ship class if you had it trained in all four races:

(a) it would answer my request in part

(b) it would answer Istavaan's

(c) it would mean that 10k players get a temporary advantage first this is a smaller problem for new players than if all races were not needed in which case 50k players would get this trmporary advantage from day one.

(d) -MOST IMPORTANT- As it was suggested above and as I suggested earlier in the thread before the dev post this kind of thing would allow a new player to get all races frigs then the combat skill and he would be better at frigs than a vet who trained the combat skill too and all BSs to 5 (to have the best Megathron or whatnot). Think about it, a noob could make an horizontal specialization choice and be able to outskill many bittervets in his chosen class...

Potential? I think definately.
Pitfalls? Yes many but that's why implementation is done by a Dev Team and not by me and you jolting on a paper during the morning poo...
Argaral
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#200 - 2012-03-30 06:19:41 UTC
Crellion wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:


And ultimately, what you really want isn't even close to what the OP wants - he wants a reason to cross train where you just want a reason to keep training.

-Liang



However if you read my reply to our frindly dev (and I highly doubt you missed it) if this new skill (i.e. "combat") only applied to a combat ship class if you had it trained in all four races:

(a) it would answer my request in part

(b) it would answer Istavaan's

(c) it would mean that 10k players get a temporary advantage first this is a smaller problem for new players than if all races were not needed in which case 50k players would get this trmporary advantage from day one.

(d) -MOST IMPORTANT- As it was suggested above and as I suggested earlier in the thread before the dev post this kind of thing would allow a new player to get all races frigs then the combat skill and he would be better at frigs than a vet who trained the combat skill too and all BSs to 5 (to have the best Megathron or whatnot). Think about it, a noob could make an horizontal specialization choice and be able to outskill many bittervets in his chosen class...

Potential? I think definately.
Pitfalls? Yes many but that's why implementation is done by a Dev Team and not by me and you jolting on a paper during the morning poo...


I have a question for you on this, Ipad or lap top for posting while on the toilet? This is fundamentally important to my future posting at work.