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CSM 7 - We Should Not Accept This Behavior!!

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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#501 - 2012-03-29 02:36:29 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

So I am sympathetic to the idea of replacement candidate to take his seat. Not sure how that would work but some sort of election for a new chair?

All in all, sad turn of events.

Issler


Once again, you could start by talking with the rest of the CSM first before publicly posting on critical situations. You would probably have a better idea of how it might work.


Wow Hans, I was on the Skype chat for about 6 hours total yesterday and no one brought anything related to this up. You were there all the time. Great chats about guns, food and stuff.

But, sure,

Issler

You're a liar, I brought it up. And that's all I'll say about stuff in the PRIVATE (NDA COVERED) channel.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Time Funnel
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#502 - 2012-03-29 02:37:11 UTC
Cyrina Manto wrote:

Yes, but you should have held your tongue until CCP had handed down punishment.

And threatening a business, was referencing the people trying to get SONY involved, effectively trying to hold DUST ransom for their cause.


I think it is a good sign that Issler is getting Sony involved and creating some waves to get his point across. I mean if you make a moral stand you have to take all means to get to a moral end.

Say what you will but you cannot smudge character like that.
Time Funnel
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#503 - 2012-03-29 02:39:20 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:

You're a liar, I brought it up. And that's all I'll say about stuff in the PRIVATE (NDA COVERED) channel.


Oh shizzle, did someone just let slip some info about NDA covered material? Wonder what else was discussed in the channel...
Frying Doom
#504 - 2012-03-29 02:43:02 UTC
Time Funnel wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:

You're a liar, I brought it up. And that's all I'll say about stuff in the PRIVATE (NDA COVERED) channel.


Oh shizzle, did someone just let slip some info about NDA covered material? Wonder what else was discussed in the channel...

Probably cooking recipes.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#505 - 2012-03-29 02:44:29 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

So I am sympathetic to the idea of replacement candidate to take his seat. Not sure how that would work but some sort of election for a new chair?

All in all, sad turn of events.

Issler


Once again, you could start by talking with the rest of the CSM first before publicly posting on critical situations. You would probably have a better idea of how it might work.


Wow Hans, I was on the Skype chat for about 6 hours total yesterday and no one brought anything related to this up. You were there all the time. Great chats about guns, food and stuff.

But, sure,

Issler

You're a liar, I brought it up. And that's all I'll say about stuff in the PRIVATE (NDA COVERED) channel.


You never said a word. Sorry.

Issler
Cyrina Manto
RBS Inc.
#506 - 2012-03-29 02:44:58 UTC
Time Funnel wrote:
Cyrina Manto wrote:

Yes, but you should have held your tongue until CCP had handed down punishment.

And threatening a business, was referencing the people trying to get SONY involved, effectively trying to hold DUST ransom for their cause.


I think it is a good sign that Issler is getting Sony involved and creating some waves to get his point across. I mean if you make a moral stand you have to take all means to get to a moral end.

Say what you will but you cannot smudge character like that.



CSM is a privilege, not a right. With this fiasco and boneheads like you, I could see CCP killing the CSM.

You would be playing with the livelihoods of hundreds of people, for virtual politics.

And you speak of the moral high road...
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#507 - 2012-03-29 02:50:52 UTC
Time Funnel wrote:
Cyrina Manto wrote:

Yes, but you should have held your tongue until CCP had handed down punishment.

And threatening a business, was referencing the people trying to get SONY involved, effectively trying to hold DUST ransom for their cause.


I think it is a good sign that Issler is getting Sony involved and creating some waves to get his point across. I mean if you make a moral stand you have to take all means to get to a moral end.

Say what you will but you cannot smudge character like that.


To be fair I would have no idea how to get Sony involved. But I expect they were contacted by other folks. All I did was pretty simple, I shared my opinion on the situation here in the forums. One critique that was repeated regularly about the CSM 6 was they weren't very open or transparent and particularly reluctant to have an individuals position on an issue shared publicly. I've no intention of reinforcing that impression.

I can see however that I've riled up some folks.

Issler
Time Funnel
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#508 - 2012-03-29 02:56:00 UTC
Cyrina Manto wrote:
Time Funnel wrote:


I think it is a good sign that Issler is getting Sony involved and creating some waves to get his point across. I mean if you make a moral stand you have to take all means to get to a moral end.

Say what you will but you cannot smudge character like that.



CSM is a privilege, not a right. With this fiasco and boneheads like you, I could see CCP killing the CSM.

You would be playing with the livelihoods of hundreds of people, for virtual politics.

And you speak of the moral high road...


Heh, if CCP wanted to kill the CSM they would first have to get rid of a bunch of people they didn't like on it. Then they would have to marginalize it by cutting off the lines of communication using excuses like certain delegates are using the mechanisms to further their own personal agendas.

I think it is high time that there were more people like Issler out there who will NOT COMPRIMISE their beliefs in the face of overwhelming adversity. Even if it is the "voice of reason" as other people would have you believe. It is time for change! and that change is through Issler.
Cyrina Manto
RBS Inc.
#509 - 2012-03-29 02:58:36 UTC
Issler, The thing about SONY was not directed at you, my apologies if people thought that.

In your position, I would have simply told people that I was waiting for CCP to handle the situation before commenting. If anything to keep it out of the political argument arena.

After that though, I would have let mittens have it. I do not agree with what he did, but its known practice in this game. If anything I would have also attacked the people raging on the forums when they do the same stuff in their day to day EvE activities.
Cyrina Manto
RBS Inc.
#510 - 2012-03-29 03:00:19 UTC
Time Funnel wrote:


Heh, if CCP wanted to kill the CSM they would first have to get rid of a bunch of people they didn't like on it. Then they would have to marginalize it by cutting off the lines of communication using excuses like certain delegates are using the mechanisms to further their own personal agendas.

I think it is high time that there were more people like Issler out there who will NOT COMPRIMISE their beliefs in the face of overwhelming adversity. Even if it is the "voice of reason" as other people would have you believe. It is time for change! and that change is through Issler.



And this is why you could never be a leader, HTFU.
Frying Doom
#511 - 2012-03-29 03:00:23 UTC
Time Funnel wrote:

Heh, if CCP wanted to kill the CSM they would first have to get rid of a bunch of people they didn't like on it. Then they would have to marginalize it by cutting off the lines of communication using excuses like certain delegates are using the mechanisms to further their own personal agendas.

I think it is high time that there were more people like Issler out there who will NOT COMPRIMISE their beliefs in the face of overwhelming adversity. Even if it is the "voice of reason" as other people would have you believe. It is time for change! and that change is through Issler.

I agree completely, this one was pretty straight forward and we should have heard from each CSM member as they got home ect.. condemning it. Not a we will get back to you in a few days message. Why does the world believe that because you are elected we should expect less of people not more.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Cyrina Manto
RBS Inc.
#512 - 2012-03-29 03:06:51 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Time Funnel wrote:

Heh, if CCP wanted to kill the CSM they would first have to get rid of a bunch of people they didn't like on it. Then they would have to marginalize it by cutting off the lines of communication using excuses like certain delegates are using the mechanisms to further their own personal agendas.

I think it is high time that there were more people like Issler out there who will NOT COMPRIMISE their beliefs in the face of overwhelming adversity. Even if it is the "voice of reason" as other people would have you believe. It is time for change! and that change is through Issler.

I agree completely, this one was pretty straight forward and we should have heard from each CSM member as they got home ect.. condemning it. Not a we will get back to you in a few days message. Why does the world believe that because you are elected we should expect less of people not more.



The only thing any of the CSM members should have said (being able to keep a professional approach) was that they do not condone the actions of said board members.

And time-funnel obviously believes in dictatorships, as that is how they start.
Frying Doom
#513 - 2012-03-29 03:15:30 UTC
Cyrina Manto wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Time Funnel wrote:

Heh, if CCP wanted to kill the CSM they would first have to get rid of a bunch of people they didn't like on it. Then they would have to marginalize it by cutting off the lines of communication using excuses like certain delegates are using the mechanisms to further their own personal agendas.

I think it is high time that there were more people like Issler out there who will NOT COMPRIMISE their beliefs in the face of overwhelming adversity. Even if it is the "voice of reason" as other people would have you believe. It is time for change! and that change is through Issler.

I agree completely, this one was pretty straight forward and we should have heard from each CSM member as they got home ect.. condemning it. Not a we will get back to you in a few days message. Why does the world believe that because you are elected we should expect less of people not more.



The only thing any of the CSM members should have said (being able to keep a professional approach) was that they do not condone the actions of said board members.

And time-funnel obviously believes in dictatorships, as that is how they start.

Yep that would have been fine.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#514 - 2012-03-29 03:16:44 UTC
And let me say this. The CSM brought a lot of good into the process of the CSM. But that isn't to say that there wasn't a fair amount of criticism of aspects of the CSM 6.

One thing I saw repeated over and over what there was a perception that the individual members actions and opinions were never properly revealed, Even Seleene blogged about that.

Another was that the CSM 6 too long to respond to things that required timely responses.

I wasn't asked to provide the position of the entire CSM as a group or CCP and I didn't. I offered MY opinion as I was asked to do by the players that elected me.

That somehow I am not allowed to share MY thoughts on something before being coached on what to say is never going to be my style. If I allowed the hive mind to tell me how to think I wouldn't have run because I was told over and over the folks that elected me could never come together and elect someone like me.

I was elected because of what I think, not what I'll be coached to think.

When I started this thread I felt it was a no brainer! Of course all the members of the CSM 7 would want to assure the players that they recognized this was a serious matter and no one could support what mittens did. Beyond that was up to them but the basic issue was simple. Did the individual CSM member see this as an issue? I couldn't believe this could be at all controversial. What debate could there be?

What I expected was a lot of goon trolling and the rest of the CSM saying something to the effect "we take this seriously and we are actively discussing this among ourselves and with CCP". Instead this became the censor Issler thread for speakig out of turn.

This is a CSM of many styles of player interaction. My style seems to be an outlier but I am committed to work hard in the CSM 7 for the folks that elected me. I'm sorry I ruffled some feathers before we've even started but I am committed to making the CSM 7 the most open and transparent CSM to date. I hope the rest of the CSM can reflect and see there is value in addressing some of the past criticisms of the CSM 6 in our upcoming term.

We owe the players that elected us that.

Issler
Cyrina Manto
RBS Inc.
#515 - 2012-03-29 03:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyrina Manto
You have to remember that most of the CSM isnt the best at PR. Roll

My intention isnt so much to censor outright, more of tone the opinion down a little (not totally stfu or anything). Mostly because people in general will blow things way out of proportion.

Many people who responded in here wanted the CSM to DO something to CCP out of spite for mittens even being in there. Which would have been way out of place for the CSM in general. If anything (I dont know what comms transpired between CSM and CCP) a simple, "Hey, that was not cool, possible ToS/EULA problem there CCP dudes." to CCP should have been it. People calling for more are kinda out of line.

CCP PR can hopefully handle itself.
Time Funnel
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#516 - 2012-03-29 03:21:39 UTC
Cyrina Manto wrote:


The only thing any of the CSM members should have said (being able to keep a professional approach) was that they do not condone the actions of said board members.

And time-funnel obviously believes in dictatorships, as that is how they start.


I believe in dictatorships? Why would I be supporting the one person who has the courage to speak his own beliefs on the council?

Duh.

Cyrina Manto wrote:
You have to remember that most of the CSM isnt the best at PR. Roll


Yeah they are only good at getting elected.
Cyrina Manto
RBS Inc.
#517 - 2012-03-29 03:24:20 UTC
Time Funnel wrote:


I believe in dictatorships? Why would I be supporting the one person who has the courage to speak his own beliefs on the council?

Duh.

Cyrina Manto wrote:
You have to remember that most of the CSM isnt the best at PR. Roll


Yeah they are only good at getting elected.


Getting elected and having good PR are two different things, you need to stay out of politics.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#518 - 2012-03-29 03:25:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
We all know what really went on in CSM Skype.

Trebor was sitting behind his dungeon master screen, rolls some dice.

Seleene is yelling about how he's casting heal spells on mittani's wizard.

Trebor calmly turns to mittani "About your wizard dude"

"He..."

"He didn't make it."

Personally, I'd want to make sure everyone had signed their NDA too.

.
Time Funnel
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#519 - 2012-03-29 03:26:26 UTC
Cyrina Manto wrote:

Getting elected and having good PR are two different things, you need to stay out of politics.


Implying that I am in, or intending to get into politics. If you call this whole farce politics.
Cyrina Manto
RBS Inc.
#520 - 2012-03-29 03:27:02 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
We all know what really went on in CSM Skype.

Trebor was sitting behind his dungeon master screen, rolls some dice.

Seleene is yelling about how he's casting heal spells on mittani's wizard.

Trebor calmly turns to mittani "About your wizard dude"

"He..."

"He didn't make it."

Personally, I'd want to make sure everyone had signed their NDA too.



Best post ever.