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My Apology

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Amity Lane
Hek Mining Association
#2621 - 2012-03-28 00:58:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Amity Lane
Derrick Munroe wrote:
Quote:

Derrick Munroe wrote:

Amity Lane wrote:



He also said he would step down from CSM.

Still waiting.


This may come as a surprise, but Twitter is, in fact, not a legally binding contract. Whatever he says on Twitter, he isn't required to act upon, follow through on, or anything. Does it hurt his credibility? Yeah, it does. But don't expect him to follow through on something he stated on Twitter.

This forum thread isn't a legally binding contract either, but we're supposed to accept his apology at face value. Why would his Twitter post be held to a different standard?


I'm sorry, point me to where I said his apology was a contract?

I'm confused. Did you not read carefully?

You said that since his Twitter post was not a contract, we shouldn't expect anything from him as a result of it. I pointed out that this thread/apology isn't a contract either yet we are expected to accept it, so why would the Twitter post be any different.

I'm genuinely confused by your reply. I never said you stated his apology was a contract, only illustrated that if we're to take this apology at face value then we should be able to take his Twitter post at face value as well.
Derrick Munroe
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2622 - 2012-03-28 00:58:23 UTC
Lt Pizi wrote:
Derrick Munroe wrote:
Quote:


This forum thread isn't a legally binding contract either, but we're supposed to accept his apology at face value. Why would his Twitter post be held to a different standard?


I'm sorry, point me to where I said his apology was a contract?


dont play the naive, you know exactly what he is saying


I'm sorry, but no I really don't. There's a difference between a personal decision to accept an apology on a public forum, and expecting somebody to follow through on something they said on Twitter.

What's it like, not owning any tech moons?
Kalathia Eginald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2623 - 2012-03-28 00:59:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalathia Eginald
Doddy wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:



Its the same thing in the wash.

But this is a powerful person in the game whom has an army of sycophantic followers. He pretty much was dousing the person he named with gasoline while giving his buddies matches.


Afaik no-one acted on what he said, and an evemail is considerably less deadly than being set alight even if you do have suicidal tendencies, so once again you are twisting things. Sure there may have been a couple of guys listening who thought "it would be fun to greif this guy" but it is only in your fantasy that thousands of goons hang on Mittanis every drunken word.


To you yes, but you can not put your thought processes on someone with a mental health problem. Rational thought goes out of the window and it can take the mostmundane of things to tip someone over the edge.

I have worked in many jobs in my working life. One of those was in a mental health hosptial s an auxillary. The staff had a basic saying and that was "there but for the grace of (name your divintiy here) go I".

Some consider bullying as "part of the course" of growing up. Yet people have ran away or killed themselves over bullying. Those that are indifferent to it tend to be the bullies or those that stood on the side lines and let it happen. They say it to make themselves feel better about themselves.

Again I am talking generally here.
DelightSucker
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2624 - 2012-03-28 01:00:44 UTC
Derrick Munroe wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
Derrick Munroe wrote:
Quote:


This forum thread isn't a legally binding contract either, but we're supposed to accept his apology at face value. Why would his Twitter post be held to a different standard?


I'm sorry, point me to where I said his apology was a contract?


dont play the naive, you know exactly what he is saying


I'm sorry, but no I really don't. There's a difference between a personal decision to accept an apology on a public forum, and expecting somebody to follow through on something they said on Twitter.


If hes twitter message means nothing, this apology means nothing and vice versa.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#2625 - 2012-03-28 01:01:40 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:


We will worry about that when I do something as horrible as he did.


I don't know how it works in your morale code. But my morale code tells me to stop kicking a man who's already down.
This isn't dependant on who's on the floor but depends only on the one who decides to kick or not.
GatoOFruits
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2626 - 2012-03-28 01:01:52 UTC  |  Edited by: GatoOFruits
IMHO because we cannot assume the mental state of every player, all players have to exercise some restraint as EVE bullying blurs the line between RL and Eve-the-game.
If not I can already predict that at a Fanfest event in the near future somebody gonna get shot or physically assaulted...
Derrick Munroe
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2627 - 2012-03-28 01:02:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Derrick Munroe
Amity Lane wrote:

I'm confused. Did you not read carefully?

You said that since his Twitter post was not a contract, we shouldn't expect anything form him as a result of it. I pointed out that this thread/apology isn't a contract either yet we are expected to accept it, so why would the Twitter post be any different.

I'm genuinely confused by your reply. I never said you stated his apology was a contract, only illustrated that if we're to take this apology at face value then we should be able to take his Twitter post at face value as well.


I think the key difference in thinking here is that, from my perspective anyway, nobody's expecting you to accept his apology. Then again, my personal opinion is that this should've been a private apology, not a 140-page threadnaught on the eve-o forums. In his apology, Mittani makes no promises to do anything, he simply fesses up to what we can all say was a major slip-up. On his Twitter post, he mentioned a 3-step plan that he formulated and posted while still on the plane back from Iceland, and is being expected to live up to it. I don't see either as a legally-binding contract but an apology doesn't need to be a contract to be an apology. My $0.02.

What's it like, not owning any tech moons?
Doddy
Excidium.
#2628 - 2012-03-28 01:02:18 UTC
Voull wrote:
I really don't get how anyone can defend him. He has brought a lot of negative attention to our community, and the only reason we don't all look like douchebags is because some have been very vocal in denouncing his actions.

He admitted he did wrong and said he was going to resign. What is there to argue here?


What exactly is "our community"?

And the argument is with people who want him banned, mostly for their own political reasons.
ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2629 - 2012-03-28 01:02:18 UTC
God can someone lock this thread, the level of terrible posting and idiots crapping up the forums with their QQ is too much for one forum section to handle.

Empyrean Warriors - Recruiting now.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#2630 - 2012-03-28 01:04:19 UTC
Voull wrote:
I really don't get how anyone can defend him. He has brought a lot of negative attention to our community, and the only reason we don't all look like douchebags is because some have been very vocal in denouncing his actions.

He admitted he did wrong and said he was going to resign. What is there to argue here?



Actually. He made the mistake. But the ones who brought it out to all the gamingsites are the ones who decided to hang the dirty laundry out.
It's not asif Mittens told them to print that.
Isn't the reporting of something like that the responcebility anymore of those who report it or make it public anymore?
Kalathia Eginald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2631 - 2012-03-28 01:06:06 UTC
ConranAntoni wrote:
God can someone lock this thread, the level of terrible posting and idiots crapping up the forums with their QQ is too much for one forum section to handle.


If they did how many threads do you think will have appeared by later on today?

It is better leaving it in one thread.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#2632 - 2012-03-28 01:07:56 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
I don't know how it works in your morale code. But my morale code tells me to stop kicking a man who's already down.


Yeah, poor Mittani Roll

I guarantee he's absolutely remorseless, and probably enjoying the attention. However this has to end. If he doesn't follow through on his claim to resign, this will only get worse.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2633 - 2012-03-28 01:08:05 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
Voull wrote:
I really don't get how anyone can defend him. He has brought a lot of negative attention to our community, and the only reason we don't all look like douchebags is because some have been very vocal in denouncing his actions.

He admitted he did wrong and said he was going to resign. What is there to argue here?



Actually. He made the mistake. But the ones who brought it out to all the gamingsites are the ones who decided to hang the dirty laundry out.
It's not asif Mittens told them to print that.
Isn't the reporting of something like that the responcebility anymore of those who report it or make it public anymore?



that will not work, and is a bad tactic
painting the messenger as the evil doer

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Doddy
Excidium.
#2634 - 2012-03-28 01:08:25 UTC
Kalathia Eginald wrote:
Doddy wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:



Its the same thing in the wash.

But this is a powerful person in the game whom has an army of sycophantic followers. He pretty much was dousing the person he named with gasoline while giving his buddies matches.


Afaik no-one acted on what he said, and an evemail is considerably less deadly than being set alight even if you do have suicidal tendencies, so once again you are twisting things. Sure there may have been a couple of guys listening who thought "it would be fun to greif this guy" but it is only in your fantasy that thousands of goons hang on Mittanis every drunken word.


To you yes, but you can not put your thought processes on someone with a mental health problem. Rational thought goes out of the window and it can take the mostmundane of things to tip someone over the edge.

I have worked in many jobs in my working life. One of those was in a mental health hosptial s an auxillary. The staff had a basic saying and that was "there but for the grace of (name your divintiy here) go I".

Some consider bullying as "part of the course" of growing up. Yet people have ran away or killed themselves over bullying. Those that are indifferent to it tend to be the bullies or those that stood on the side lines and let it happen. They say it to make themselves feel better about themselves.

Again I am talking generally here.


Thats just it, you are speaking generally. In reality the chances of any given email actually pushing someone over the edge are very slim. On the other hand being set alight is pretty much guaranteed to do you damage. I do not deny what Mittani did was worng and could conceivably have led to something terrible, but it is a long long way from being a death sentance like rogue is making out, even if the imaginary flurry of emails had ever been sent.
Zanmaru
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#2635 - 2012-03-28 01:10:42 UTC
We're still going on about this? Shoot, I forgot what Mittani did now. Was he the one who shot that hobo?
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2636 - 2012-03-28 01:10:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lt Pizi
Derrick Munroe wrote:
Amity Lane wrote:

I'm confused. Did you not read carefully?

You said that since his Twitter post was not a contract, we shouldn't expect anything form him as a result of it. I pointed out that this thread/apology isn't a contract either yet we are expected to accept it, so why would the Twitter post be any different.

I'm genuinely confused by your reply. I never said you stated his apology was a contract, only illustrated that if we're to take this apology at face value then we should be able to take his Twitter post at face value as well.


I think the key difference in thinking here is that, from my perspective anyway, nobody's expecting you to accept his apology. Then again, my personal opinion is that this should've been a private apology, not a 140-page threadnaught on the eve-o forums. In his apology, Mittani makes no promises to do anything, he simply fesses up to what we can all say was a major slip-up. On his Twitter post, he mentioned a 3-step plan that he formulated and posted while still on the plane back from Iceland, and is being expected to live up to it. I don't see either as a legally-binding contract but an apology doesn't need to be a contract to be an apology. My $0.02.



if he doesnt resign, as pointed out his apology will mean nothing and even i cannot immense the outcry

for his own sake and RL face, i really hope he has some standards

edit: the mittani can do whatever he wants, but hes in charge with his RL name , some of you seem to forget

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#2637 - 2012-03-28 01:11:18 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Voull wrote:
I really don't get how anyone can defend him. He has brought a lot of negative attention to our community, and the only reason we don't all look like douchebags is because some have been very vocal in denouncing his actions.

He admitted he did wrong and said he was going to resign. What is there to argue here?


What exactly is "our community"?

And the argument is with people who want him banned, mostly for their own political reasons.


There are people that want him banned but there's also people that consider resignation from the CSM as being an exceptable response.

There are people that have a political agenda and there's also people that have no political agenda.

But whatever happens it's CCPs decision at the end of the day.
OfBalance
Caldari State
#2638 - 2012-03-28 01:12:18 UTC
Gas thread, keep OP as chairman.
Jita Alt666
#2639 - 2012-03-28 01:12:52 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:


We will worry about that when I do something as horrible as he did.


I don't know how it works in your morale code. But my morale code tells me to stop kicking a man who's already down.
This isn't dependant on who's on the floor but depends only on the one who decides to kick or not.




And Jesus said, "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone."
Kalathia Eginald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2640 - 2012-03-28 01:13:47 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Kalathia Eginald wrote:
Doddy wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:



Its the same thing in the wash.

But this is a powerful person in the game whom has an army of sycophantic followers. He pretty much was dousing the person he named with gasoline while giving his buddies matches.


Afaik no-one acted on what he said, and an evemail is considerably less deadly than being set alight even if you do have suicidal tendencies, so once again you are twisting things. Sure there may have been a couple of guys listening who thought "it would be fun to greif this guy" but it is only in your fantasy that thousands of goons hang on Mittanis every drunken word.


To you yes, but you can not put your thought processes on someone with a mental health problem. Rational thought goes out of the window and it can take the mostmundane of things to tip someone over the edge.

I have worked in many jobs in my working life. One of those was in a mental health hosptial s an auxillary. The staff had a basic saying and that was "there but for the grace of (name your divintiy here) go I".

Some consider bullying as "part of the course" of growing up. Yet people have ran away or killed themselves over bullying. Those that are indifferent to it tend to be the bullies or those that stood on the side lines and let it happen. They say it to make themselves feel better about themselves.

Again I am talking generally here.


Thats just it, you are speaking generally. In reality the chances of any given email actually pushing someone over the edge are very slim. On the other hand being set alight is pretty much guaranteed to do you damage. I do not deny what Mittani did was worng and could conceivably have led to something terrible, but it is a long long way from being a death sentance like rogue is making out, even if the imaginary flurry of emails had ever been sent.


When I said I was talking generally I meant I was not aiming an attack at anyone, as in it was not aimed, I appologise as this was not clear in my post as it was in reference to the paragraph above it.

Again you can not place rational thought or what you think is irrelevant on to a person who is already unbalanced what can or can not tip someone over the edge is personal. going off on a tangent, most places have a solutions to debts that could effectively get rid of them, yet people kill themselves and in some cases their entire family over them.

In reality you do not know if that email is the straw that breaks the camels back or not.