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CSM The Mittani's Misconduct Calls for Resignation - We Did It!

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low26
Phantom Space
Space Madness.
#2221 - 2012-03-27 18:21:14 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
I find especially hilarious the notion that CCP will maintain their ~credibility~ by removing any player representative, who they find inconvenient from a PR or bottom line point of view.



So according to your logic when Tiger Woods lost all his sponsors for sleeping with prostitutes and such the advertisers acted in the wrong way? I mean Tiger broke no laws right? (but Mittens may have) Could it possibly be that they no longer wanted their brand associated with him? You sir are a moron
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2222 - 2012-03-27 18:22:41 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
The Mittani/Alex was the one calling for a lynch mob to go after someone to the point of death. Murder by proxies. Being drunk is not an excuse.


No one believes that except, well, I was going to say "you and the NPC sockpuppets", but they don't really believe that either.

When someone in game tells me to commit self harm, consume fecal matter and expire, or perform oral sex on a large domesticated farm animal, they are obviously not actually intending me to do so -- it's smack talk, trash talk, and general e-peen wiggling.

Alex, while drunk, forgot himself and brought this attitude out of his in game persona into his public persona. He was ashamed and apologized. Would he still say to harass someone in game as "The Mittani"? Probably. Would he do so with the intent to actually cause someone to kill themselves in real life? Hell no. Despite the foolish mewlings of a bunch of 13 year olds, Goons-the-Players aren't actually evil. We're just assholes.

By intentionally acting disingenuous you are actively attempting to inflate this scandal in such a way to further an agenda. Anyone can tell this by simply watching the thread and your repeated, asinine posts.

With that in mind, and with my aforementioned disclaimer about the difference between in game persona and public persona: I hope you commit a large amount of self harm, consume fecal matter and expire, or perhaps asphyxiate on a large amount of donkey excretions, you ignorant player of low skill, abysmal intellect, and dismal hygiene.
Prince Kobol
#2223 - 2012-03-27 18:22:58 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
First off, it's not something I'd ever say personally and find objectionable because that's not what I do, but I'm not the goonest of the goons either so I also believe one has to keep a sense of proportion and perspective.

The Mittani, CEO of goonswarm and notorious ahole did a presentation, he did so in that quality. While he does also have a seat on the CSM, he didn't act in that capacity anymore than he did act as a lawyer, as an american or as a male. Saying it's the same thing would be akin to saying "American incite others to harass blokes, death to all americans".

Circumstances play a role, it's fanfest where goons spend days pretending to be idiots or griefers. There was also booze involved.

It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood, or are we requesting that CCP ban all those who "hoped" CCP Soundwave would die in a fire for InCarna?



The Mittani/Alex was the one calling for a lynch mob to go after someone to the point of death. Murder by proxies. Being drunk is not an excuse.

He needs to man up and step down from the CSM at minimum. He shouldn't have to discuss anything, he should have already done so.

The scarier thing is the Goons that are basically defending driving someone to their death. Its not about the specific person anymore its about the Goon culture. If they get away with it here there is now a green light to do it again down the road. Goons clamoring to defend this heinous bull is disturbing even for them. Just to defend their cult leader.


I'm certainly not going to defend the words he said, I'm just calling for a little sense of perspective.
The goons didn't harass the guy to death. As a matter of fact when Wis was contacted he didn't even know about the whole afair. By that time (or near enough as makes no difference), mittens had apologized and called off the mob. No damage done.

It shouldn't be condoned, but an apology and retraction is good enough for me if there was no damage.

So was it tasteless, sure... but look at the damage that was actually done: none.


Some may say the amount of external Internet Coverage by various gaming internet sites might be classed as damage but you know.. which company doesn't want headlines like

"CCP investigates player panel that encouraged cyber-bullying"
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#2224 - 2012-03-27 18:23:52 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
First off, it's not something I'd ever say personally and find objectionable because that's not what I do, but I'm not the goonest of the goons either so I also believe one has to keep a sense of proportion and perspective.

The Mittani, CEO of goonswarm and notorious ahole did a presentation, he did so in that quality. While he does also have a seat on the CSM, he didn't act in that capacity anymore than he did act as a lawyer, as an american or as a male. Saying it's the same thing would be akin to saying "American incite others to harass blokes, death to all americans".

Circumstances play a role, it's fanfest where goons spend days pretending to be idiots or griefers. There was also booze involved.

It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood, or are we requesting that CCP ban all those who "hoped" CCP Soundwave would die in a fire for InCarna?



The Mittani/Alex was the one calling for a lynch mob to go after someone to the point of death. Murder by proxies. Being drunk is not an excuse.

He needs to man up and step down from the CSM at minimum. He shouldn't have to discuss anything, he should have already done so.

The scarier thing is the Goons that are basically defending driving someone to their death. Its not about the specific person anymore its about the Goon culture. If they get away with it here there is now a green light to do it again down the road. Goons clamoring to defend this heinous bull is disturbing even for them. Just to defend their cult leader.


I'm certainly not going to defend the words he said, I'm just calling for a little sense of perspective.
The goons didn't harass the guy to death. As a matter of fact when Wis was contacted he didn't even know about the whole afair. By that time (or near enough as makes no difference), mittens had apologized and called off the mob. No damage done.

It shouldn't be condoned, but an apology and retraction is good enough for me if there was no damage.

So was it tasteless, sure... but look at the damage that was actually done: none.


You need to be removed as well. Whenever losing subscriptions is "no damage done" in your eyes you clearly are not representing the best interest of the players.

Ironically, CCP is in dire financial straits right now (before all of this). I imagine the next thing to go would be...

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
KanashiiKami
#2225 - 2012-03-27 18:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: KanashiiKami
Kill Rockstar wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood, or are we requesting that CCP ban all those who "hoped" CCP Soundwave would die in a fire for InCarna?


We pay CCP to maintain a game and do not expect to get screwed over by the devs with there money grabbing ways or miss direction of Incarna.
People had a right to be mad at Soundwave, he is the dev of the game we all pay for be it in time or money, he is making a profit from us by providing a service, when we did not receive this "We was MAD".
And I'm sure people did get banned over said incident.
Mittens is a player and a CSM member, he did not change the game in a breaking way nor did he try and take our money, he just made a really douche bag move, which to an eve player is possibly acceptable, but explain the story to anyone outside of the "EVE MENTALITY" and see the results.

TL:DR, That is a pretty stupid comparison.


actually he did change the game, he ordered the ice gankings, this move as seen by pirates being a "nice" trends blows into numerous other miner gankings. he did change the entire eve economics. on a whim? i do not know ... but if 1 player can do that, what am i paying to play this game for? a system of game mechanics that can be changed by 1 player? so overnight i can find i can no longer feed my POS due to the tyranny of 1 player and his followers?

i sound too carebearish? maybe ... so what happens to the game if all 4 empires are miner ganked on his command? CCp cant do anything, so does it mean he have power over CCP as well and "destroy" the game experience for thousands of other players?

WUT ???
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2226 - 2012-03-27 18:24:42 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
First off, it's not something I'd ever say personally and find objectionable because that's not what I do, but I'm not the goonest of the goons either so I also believe one has to keep a sense of proportion and perspective.

The Mittani, CEO of goonswarm and notorious ahole did a presentation, he did so in that quality. While he does also have a seat on the CSM, he didn't act in that capacity anymore than he did act as a lawyer, as an american or as a male. Saying it's the same thing would be akin to saying "American incite others to harass blokes, death to all americans".

Circumstances play a role, it's fanfest where goons spend days pretending to be idiots or griefers. There was also booze involved.

It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood, or are we requesting that CCP ban all those who "hoped" CCP Soundwave would die in a fire for InCarna?



The Mittani/Alex was the one calling for a lynch mob to go after someone to the point of death. Murder by proxies. Being drunk is not an excuse.

He needs to man up and step down from the CSM at minimum. He shouldn't have to discuss anything, he should have already done so.

The scarier thing is the Goons that are basically defending driving someone to their death. Its not about the specific person anymore its about the Goon culture. If they get away with it here there is now a green light to do it again down the road. Goons clamoring to defend this heinous bull is disturbing even for them. Just to defend their cult leader.


I'm certainly not going to defend the words he said, I'm just calling for a little sense of perspective.
The goons didn't harass the guy to death. As a matter of fact when Wis was contacted he didn't even know about the whole afair. By that time (or near enough as makes no difference), mittens had apologized and called off the mob. No damage done.

It shouldn't be condoned, but an apology and retraction is good enough for me if there was no damage.

So was it tasteless, sure... but look at the damage that was actually done: none.



Only because they didnt have a chance too cause people got on top of the issue FAST.

Its not about what did happen but what might have happened. Or might happen again if not dealt with.

He called for someones death. When will this sink in. Even if it was a joke, many might have taken it to the logical conclusion if we didnt notice what he did. Heck people might still go after the person in question. I dont use the persons name on purpose and i would think others would do the same. The goons are the ones spreading the person name left and right even now. Even worse you are using the persons character name in your posts. Have some sense please. I have counter points to your he is not upset that i wont repost because I dont want him brought into it.

Its not just about him its about the next player this might happen too. And the precedent that must be set by CCP.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2227 - 2012-03-27 18:27:50 UTC
Xython wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
The Mittani/Alex was the one calling for a lynch mob to go after someone to the point of death. Murder by proxies. Being drunk is not an excuse.


No one believes that except, well, I was going to say "you and the NPC sockpuppets", but they don't really believe that either.

When someone in game tells me to commit self harm, consume fecal matter and expire, or perform oral sex on a large domesticated farm animal, they are obviously not actually intending me to do so -- it's smack talk, trash talk, and general e-peen wiggling.

Alex, while drunk, forgot himself and brought this attitude out of his in game persona into his public persona. He was ashamed and apologized. Would he still say to harass someone in game as "The Mittani"? Probably. Would he do so with the intent to actually cause someone to kill themselves in real life? Hell no. Despite the foolish mewlings of a bunch of 13 year olds, Goons-the-Players aren't actually evil. We're just assholes.

By intentionally acting disingenuous you are actively attempting to inflate this scandal in such a way to further an agenda. Anyone can tell this by simply watching the thread and your repeated, asinine posts.

With that in mind, and with my aforementioned disclaimer about the difference between in game persona and public persona: I hope you commit a large amount of self harm, consume fecal matter and expire, or perhaps asphyxiate on a large amount of donkey excretions, you ignorant player of low skill, abysmal intellect, and dismal hygiene.


Most everyone believes with good cause the goons and maybe other more malicious people would have followed through on it if not for the people calling for an investigation. Putting a full stop to what might have happened.

Think about that, most think you would have happily murdered someone. Then laughed about it.

Proud of being a goon still?

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#2228 - 2012-03-27 18:30:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Karim alRashid
RougeOperator wrote:

The Mittani/Alex was the one calling for a lynch mob to go after someone to the point of death. Murder by proxies. Being drunk is not an excuse.


Do you understand that opinions about the incident differ? I see no evidence whatsoever that this Alex dude has in fact wished the death of another person, rather than making a distasteful joke, while under influence.

You're welcome to convince me and others that we are actually wrong, that Alex in fact wished the other dude dead.

Quote:
The scarier thing is the Goons that are basically defending driving someone to their death.


In fact, as far as I know, neither anyone died nor any actions, that would constitute the final drop and make one commit suicide, have taken place.
Hence, whatever Goons do, it can't be, quote, defending driving someone to their death, unquote.

Right?

PS. Oh, while I was writing 3-4 posters above said basically the same.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Kill Rockstar
Doomheim
#2229 - 2012-03-27 18:30:50 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Calling for someones death, even in jest since he was calling on others to do it for him whom might not have taken it as a joke is not something you can just let slide.


I'm not disagreeing, I think he came off as a totally social inept douche bag personally.

I have received similar mails from victims of scams or ganks and have showed my corp/friends and had a little mini snigger to each other, but we would certainly never put it out to the public and encourage people to harass a sick person (who could be trolling himself we just don't know).

I guess it's just the nature of the douche.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2230 - 2012-03-27 18:30:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Manssell wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Manssell wrote:


So calling on people to blow up someones internet spaceships, in a game about blowing up internet spaceships is now "cyber bullying"? If that's the case then most acts of war in game are "cyber bullying", and letting these media outlets that are reporting that define what we can do in game really would for the first time be the "death of EVE".



I understand your point but let me explain it a different way. It reaches the point of "bullying" when the offender knows the guy is depressed and suicidal and calls upon thousands of people to do just that. It's AKA harassment.



I'm kinda playing devil's advocate here, but if we go down this path would't that mean any miner with a ship name of "I"m suicidal" couldn't be ganked then? Or if an alliance leader made a blog post saying how depressed they where, and how the alliance was the only thing that kept them alive, would't that mean no one who read that could war dec them (a war dec is just calling on thousands of people to harass someone right)? I mean it is EVE, people would do that.

I think the problem is we are in a really grey area here and what I don't like seeing is all the spin to make this out as the worst case scenario of bullying for political gain which in the long run may hurt the cold harsh universe of EVE most of us love.


Yeah it is a very grey area. As for the miner, I suppose the offense would occur when one has knowledge of the potential victim's situation on a more personal level than say just a ship name. As for the alliance leader, I'm not sure the same argument can be made since the operative word is "them" not "him".

Mitanni, supposedly, specifically singled out a player focusing that attention like a magnifying glass in the hands of a child onto a ant while supposedly rebuking any concern for the individuals mentioned state while supposedly being informed of his mental state. So, IDK, there's a difference, isn't there?

Don't ban me, bro!
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#2231 - 2012-03-27 18:34:18 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
First off, it's not something I'd ever say personally and find objectionable because that's not what I do, but I'm not the goonest of the goons either so I also believe one has to keep a sense of proportion and perspective.

The Mittani, CEO of goonswarm and notorious ahole did a presentation, he did so in that quality. While he does also have a seat on the CSM, he didn't act in that capacity anymore than he did act as a lawyer, as an american or as a male. Saying it's the same thing would be akin to saying "American incite others to harass blokes, death to all americans".

Circumstances play a role, it's fanfest where goons spend days pretending to be idiots or griefers. There was also booze involved.

It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood, or are we requesting that CCP ban all those who "hoped" CCP Soundwave would die in a fire for InCarna?



The Mittani/Alex was the one calling for a lynch mob to go after someone to the point of death. Murder by proxies. Being drunk is not an excuse.

He needs to man up and step down from the CSM at minimum. He shouldn't have to discuss anything, he should have already done so.

The scarier thing is the Goons that are basically defending driving someone to their death. Its not about the specific person anymore its about the Goon culture. If they get away with it here there is now a green light to do it again down the road. Goons clamoring to defend this heinous bull is disturbing even for them. Just to defend their cult leader.


I'm certainly not going to defend the words he said, I'm just calling for a little sense of perspective.
The goons didn't harass the guy to death. As a matter of fact when Wis was contacted he didn't even know about the whole afair. By that time (or near enough as makes no difference), mittens had apologized and called off the mob. No damage done.

It shouldn't be condoned, but an apology and retraction is good enough for me if there was no damage.

So was it tasteless, sure... but look at the damage that was actually done: none.


Get a clue Meissa please. The damage that is done is to the reputation of the game in the wider gaming media and the way that we the players of eve online just got represented by a drunken fratboy calling on people to troll someone to death. Now we know the barge guy is okay, thats great, but that doesn't change the fact that the chairman of the CSM acted in a completely irresponsible and insulting way on the stage at fanfest on live tv which then got sent around the world to various gaming newsites.

Eve is recovering this year. I loved a lot of the stuff that came out of fanfest. The future looks pretty great but then Alexander Gianturco had to get steaming drunk and stagger out some junvenile-grade cod sadistic nonsense that made this community look absolutely terrible.

I find it hard to believe you are standing there and trying to justify this as a non event really.


The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#2232 - 2012-03-27 18:35:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Karim alRashid
Cipher, who is this CCP representative you're talking about ?

cf. "Any professional company I have ever represented in my life would fire me for representing them in such a light. "

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Devil's Call
Social safety
#2233 - 2012-03-27 18:38:03 UTC
It's funny how people take advantage of this mistake he made, and now do everything to see him hang. Just like real politics, right?
I really hope he doesn't resign, that would be redicilous.
Avila Cracko
#2234 - 2012-03-27 18:39:30 UTC
One opinion:
what do you think how much influence, with CCP, Mittani will have after all of this??? (if he stays where he is)

NONE!

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2235 - 2012-03-27 18:39:47 UTC
Devil's Call wrote:
It's funny how people take advantage of this mistake he made, and now do everything to see him hang. Just like real politics, right?
I really hope he doesn't resign, that would be redicilous.



Yeah cause getting behind someone that calls for someones death in real life is so cool?


Get your compass checked mate.


**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Kill Rockstar
Doomheim
#2236 - 2012-03-27 18:39:52 UTC
KanashiiKami wrote:
actually he did change the game, he ordered the ice gankings, this move as seen by pirates being a "nice" trends blows into numerous other miner gankings. he did change the entire eve economics. on a whim? i do not know ... but if 1 player can do that, what am i paying to play this game for? a system of game mechanics that can be changed by 1 player? so overnight i can find i can no longer feed my POS due to the tyranny of 1 player and his followers?

i sound too carebearish? maybe ... so what happens to the game if all 4 empires are miner ganked on his command? CCp cant do anything, so does it mean he have power over CCP as well and "destroy" the game experience for thousands of other players?


I have to avoid dying in 0.0 and wh's on a daily basis. Your inability to stay alive in High Sec is irrelevant.
He doesn't change Game Mechanics and he certainly does not do anything other than his virtual claim to fame as a single entity (not that it required any sort of skill).
Being able to manipulate the market through ganking miners and haulers are what makes this game so fantastic, why are you miners not forming up a massive alliance with RR mining fleets to protect your self?
Unite and fight miners vs goons gogogogo viva le revolution!!!
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#2237 - 2012-03-27 18:40:32 UTC
Still waiting for step 2!

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Prince Kobol
#2238 - 2012-03-27 18:41:03 UTC
Devil's Call wrote:
It's funny how people take advantage of this mistake he made, and now do everything to see him hang. Just like real politics, right?
I really hope he doesn't resign, that would be redicilous.


You mean when the goons do it its called "metagaming" and its cool, but when others do it "its all bad and evil"

Nice Big smile
Kallynda Nai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2239 - 2012-03-27 18:41:12 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
First off, it's not something I'd ever say personally and find objectionable because that's not what I do, but I'm not the goonest of the goons either so I also believe one has to keep a sense of proportion and perspective.

The Mittani, CEO of goonswarm and notorious ahole did a presentation, he did so in that quality. While he does also have a seat on the CSM, he didn't act in that capacity anymore than he did act as a lawyer, as an american or as a male. Saying it's the same thing would be akin to saying "American incite others to harass blokes, death to all americans".

Circumstances play a role, it's fanfest where goons spend days pretending to be idiots or griefers. There was also booze involved.

It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood, or are we requesting that CCP ban all those who "hoped" CCP Soundwave would die in a fire for InCarna?



The Mittani/Alex was the one calling for a lynch mob to go after someone to the point of death. Murder by proxies. Being drunk is not an excuse.

He needs to man up and step down from the CSM at minimum. He shouldn't have to discuss anything, he should have already done so.

The scarier thing is the Goons that are basically defending driving someone to their death. Its not about the specific person anymore its about the Goon culture. If they get away with it here there is now a green light to do it again down the road. Goons clamoring to defend this heinous bull is disturbing even for them. Just to defend their cult leader.


I'm certainly not going to defend the words he said, I'm just calling for a little sense of perspective.
The goons didn't harass the guy to death. As a matter of fact when Wis was contacted he didn't even know about the whole afair. By that time (or near enough as makes no difference), mittens had apologized and called off the mob. No damage done.

It shouldn't be condoned, but an apology and retraction is good enough for me if there was no damage.

So was it tasteless, sure... but look at the damage that was actually done: none.



Only because they didnt have a chance too cause people got on top of the issue FAST.

Its not about what did happen but what might have happened. Or might happen again if not dealt with.

He called for someones death. When will this sink in. Even if it was a joke, many might have taken it to the logical conclusion if we didnt notice what he did. Heck people might still go after the person in question. I dont use the persons name on purpose and i would think others would do the same. The goons are the ones spreading the person name left and right even now. Even worse you are using the persons character name in your posts. Have some sense please. I have counter points to your he is not upset that i wont repost because I dont want him brought into it.

Its not just about him its about the next player this might happen too. And the precedent that must be set by CCP.


Minority Report ITT
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2240 - 2012-03-27 18:41:58 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Still waiting for step 2!


I think he really meant Two Step. Not step 2. So maybe he's going to have Two Step resign, kinda like a whipping boy?

Don't ban me, bro!