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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Tried the game - Here's my Feedback

Author
Jet Moonshine
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2017-06-21 09:41:32 UTC
So the prologue of the game is amazing. Once I get past the prologue and start doing the quests from the different career path guys - no more audio messages - no more story. Just - text telling me to do a quest - then get your next quest. VERY bland.

Then I start talking with people in the game. - Learning more about the game.

Apparently in this game if your ship gets destroyed - IT IS GONE!!! You gotta buy a new ship - and new fittings for the ship - and the only thing you can do to help mitigate cost is insurance - which does not give you the full cost of everything you put into the ship back.

In many games there are death penalties. However this is FORCING people to play HARD CORE. This is VERY rogue like and there are more people who HATE perma-death games then there are people who LIKE them.

There is a huge reason why your server population went from an average of 100k a day to below 20k a day. People lost their ships - all that hard work and time they put in the game to get them - AND THEN BOOM!!!!

The death penalty is WAY TOO BIG in this game for me to even CONSIDER putting the amount of time required to even get a somewhat decent of a ship going!!! WAY TOO BIG GUYS!!! TOO BIG!!!

Sorry - the death penalty for this game makes it NOT WORTH MY TIME.

You want your player base to come back? Figure out a way for people to be able to have their ships re-spawned - add some kind of death penalty (but not too big) - like even a really long re spawn timer would be better than perma-death. I'm talking days to weeks even. DO NOT make people lose their fittings / implants either. I hear those can also be really hard to replace.


Or hey here's an idea. Start a server where you have your typical style game - and then the other server with NO PERMA -DEATHS FOR SHIPS but re-spawn timers like I stated.

Imagine playing WoW with Perma death. World of Warcraft WOULD BE NO WHERE NEAR AS SUCCESSFUL HAD THEY DONE THAT!!!!!

These are GAMES people... Making things too close to real life on certain aspects TAKES THE FUN OUT OF PLAYING SAID GAME!!!!!!!!! ( permanent death in games just like real life - IS NOT... FUN!!!!!!!!!!!)

I saw that one video where there was that massive battle - hearing about how people lost collectively OVER 300 THOUSAND DOLLARS!!! Yeah I bet a crap load of people rage quit the game because of that.....

Just think - you could have KEPT all those players for such a much longer time had it not been for this ill-advised gameplay decision.

If you are going to have Hardcore in your game (perma-death) - THEN MAKE IT AN OPTION AND DO NOT FORCE IT ON PEOPLE WHO ABSOLUTELY ABHOR THAT!!!!!!! Make different servers for people who do not want to play like that!!

IT IS AS BAD AS MAKING PEOPLE PLAY WITHOUT AN INVERT Y AXIS OPTION!!!!! POOR DECISION TO LEAVE OUT THE OPTION!!!! Devs who do this seem like they have some kind of built in arrogance where it's like they are telling the world: No - you play the way I want you to play or don't play at all - and then assume there won't be a backlash from it. THE ARROGANCE!!!

I can't in good conscience recommend this game JUST because of this. I'll choose a game where I can have a better sense of accomplishment because all the hard things I have worked for don't disappear permanently because of : Lag. Bad Luck, In the wrong place at the wrong time, etc. etc. etc. etc."

This is especially true considering you allow people to make in game purchases.

BORDERLINE GAMBLING. No thanks! Funny how in this case the house will eventually lose given enough time. That's assuming they don't take any advice.

I seriously doubt this post will change anything for the game. I bet this post has been done already countless times by countless different people. But hey - what would life be like without repetition?

Cheers.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#2 - 2017-06-21 10:09:34 UTC
Wrong. Eve has survived 14 years because choices have consequences and loss matters. Turning it into yet another theme park ride where everything is "soul bound" and nothing you do matters would kill it. There are hundreds of games like that but there is only one Eve. It's not for everyone but those of us who like it, like it a lot!
Kaea Astridsson
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#3 - 2017-06-21 10:25:12 UTC
Ships are 'respawned' whenever an industrialist builds then and sells them on the open market. I am not my ship, a capsuleer is an immortal being, we got our minds transferred right back to our next body ready to die again. And again.

Also FAKE NEWS, SAD

Get on Comms, or die typing.

Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#4 - 2017-06-21 11:15:58 UTC
Jet Moonshine wrote:

People lost their ships - all that hard work and time they put in the game to get them - AND THEN BOOM!!!!


Most ships are not a lot of hard work, frigates are cheap enough that people go out and lose 50 of them in a day. I would certainly not call it a "death penalty" more just a minor loss.


Jet Moonshine wrote:

Imagine playing WoW with Perma death. World of Warcraft WOULD BE NO WHERE NEAR AS SUCCESSFUL HAD THEY DONE THAT!!!!!


Comparing this game with WoW will not score many points. Many people in the game are WoW refugees who think that game has become too soft, and caters to much to the lowest denominator. They like EVE because of exactly those points you are complaining about.

On the other hand, if WoW had permanent death, I might be playing it again.

Jet Moonshine wrote:


These are GAMES people... Making things too close to real life on certain aspects TAKES THE FUN OUT OF PLAYING SAID GAME!!!!!!!!! ( permanent death in games just like real life - IS NOT... FUN!!!!!!!!!!!)


We think it is.

Jet Moonshine wrote:


I saw that one video where there was that massive battle - hearing about how people lost collectively OVER 300 THOUSAND DOLLARS!!! Yeah I bet a crap load of people rage quit the game because of that.....


If they rage quit over a loss, perhaps this might not be the game for them (or you). Except I don't think they did, people who fly pricy ships into those huge battles typically know what they're doing and what they're risking. They like the thrill, don't mind the loss, and typically have means of recouping their losses when they inevitably happen.


Harrison Lee
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2017-06-21 11:29:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Harrison Lee
I agree -- FAKE NEWS.

On several fronts:

First, your title suggests a review of the game. It is not. It is a complaint about one part of the Eve experience.

Second, you are NOT your ship. Any ship can be flown given enough skills & isk and any modules can be installed too. You are you IN the ship. And much like equipment deteriorating in other MMOs, sooner or later they'll have to be either repaired or replaced. Same here --- The difference being that losing the ship and / or modules allows the industry part of the game, the low end T1 industry especially, to still be viable 14+ years later. Add in that most ships and equipment is cheap compared to the time it takes to make in game money and then add insurance... I mean really... In the 11 days I've been on this new character, I already have just under 150 mil isk --- enough to buy and fully fit over 200 frigates. Sheesh. Wanted to start over from scratch just to see what it was like for new players. Still fun.

And to close... Here is a trivia question for you? What is the longest running MMO that has more than 20,000 active subscribers?

Yep, EVE. Was released on May 6, 2003. WOW was November 23, 2004. FACT. They must be doing something right.


H. Lee
Memphis Baas
#6 - 2017-06-21 12:29:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
I'm guessing nobody's podded you yet, and as an Alpha you probably don't have some 100 million ISK worth of implants in your clone anyway. So, OMG DEATH PENALTY you haven't seen it yet.

This game is an unrestricted PVP game, you can be shot by players anywhere at any time. PVP is the focus, "quests" aren't.

This game is a strategy game. You train your character to unlock a number of ships; you build a supply of ships, then go to war. The game IS balanced to allow you to accumulate wealth, despite the death penalty that shocked you so, otherwise we wouldn't be able to PVP daily and participate in the huge wars that happen every few months (using the expensive ships, mind you, not your free starter corvette).

It's a sandbox game, past the tutorial there's no quest line to hand-hold you through the game; figure out what you want to do on your own, or join a player group that knows what they want and participate in their goals.

This game has a single server, so the US and Canadians can play with or against South America, the Russians, Australians, various Europeans, Middle East, etc.

This game has been around for a while, and the people who play it right now, and have played it for the past 14 years, WE LIKE IT THE WAY IT IS, to the point where you would be drowning in flames and derision, were it not for the forum rules for posting in this Newbies forum.

So, hi, welcome to the game, congratulations on your fast discovery that you don't like it, thanks for the feedback, even if it was a bit loud, and don't bother with recommendations. Good luck, and enjoy your other gaming experience; there certainly are many games out there, and they're not mutually exclusive with this one, so trust me we're not desperate to have you.
Maxi dela Tierra
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2017-06-21 12:56:12 UTC
What you have described is why EvE is unique and why EvE is special.

EvE is not for everyone. If it's not for you, just leave. It won't change for you. We who love the game want it to stay as it is.
Maxi dela Tierra
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2017-06-21 12:58:07 UTC
Jet Moonshine wrote:

I seriously doubt this post will change anything for the game. I bet this post has been done already countless times by countless different people. But hey - what would life be like without repetition?

Cheers.


Guess why it's not changing. Because it's great. Just not for you Blink
Francis Raven
ExDominion
Evictus.
#9 - 2017-06-21 13:32:53 UTC
"When an eve player leaves to play WOW, The Average IQ of both games goes up"

ExDominion | Nullsec Corporation | Website | Forums | Established Nov. 2015 |

Tanuki Kittybeta
Ripperoni in Pepperoni
Trigger Warnings
#10 - 2017-06-21 13:59:02 UTC
hello friend











bye bye friend
Elhana Melahadrin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2017-06-21 14:01:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Elhana Melahadrin
Francis Raven wrote:
"When an eve player leaves to play WOW, The Average IQ of both games goes up"


I didn't know this one... Really love it ^^.


For the OP, Eve is not the casual theme park you can find everywhere. The harsh environment, steep learning curve, the community are the specificity of Eve and make the game a lot more rewarding than any other MMO I ever played.

As opposed to what you say, the sens of accomplishment is a lot higher in this game. When you need so much effort and sweat to put something together, and even more to keep it alive, there is a true feeling of accomplishment.

Also, we can all mine all day long to make ISK, build ships and modules to sell, run mission to kill rats, but in the end, if ships and modules are not destroyed, who will buy them ? Nobody. Then, who will need to mine and build ? Nobody. Who will leave the game ? All industrialists and miners, but also traders. THIS is what would kill Eve, very very fast.

The game need everything to stay alive : miners, industrialists, mission runners, but also pirates, gankers and scammers. If one side disappear, the other will follow almost immediately.

So, if you don't like Eve as it is, this game is not for you and it's better to leave. There is no shame or blame in this statement, Nothing in this world is made for everyone. Find a game that suits your needs/will and enjoy it as much as we enjoy Eve's harsh environment.

Fly safe to your new world.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2017-06-21 14:10:20 UTC
Jet Moonshine wrote:
So the prologue of the game is amazing. Once I get past the prologue and start doing the quests from the different career path guys - no more audio messages - no more story. Just - text telling me to do a quest - then get your next quest. VERY bland.

I am not sure where you picked up any quests in this game because I've only been able to find missions. It may seem like I am just arguing semantics but I feel that it is an important distinction to make that missions in Eve are very different from quests in most other MMOs which are typically fantasy, themepark style MMOs. In Eve PvE is not the focus. This is mainly a PvP sandbox with a focus on a player driven economy read that as economic PvP.

This is a full on war simulation not some balanced 8 v 8 shooter. PvE in this game is not intended to take you from day one to "level capped end game" raiding ( or other PvE ) content. In Eve PvE is intentionally left bland as the idea of this game is to force players out of their comfort zone and into more challenging and player created content.

This game is neither linear nor scripted. Most of what happens in this game happens because of players. If you don't get out and get involved with other players you are missing 95% of this game.
Jet Moonshine wrote:


Imagine playing WoW with Perma death. World of Warcraft WOULD BE NO WHERE NEAR AS SUCCESSFUL HAD THEY DONE THAT!!!!!


There is no perma death in Eve. Capsuleers are immortal. Yes you will go through ships but that is something entirely different.

Eve is a very different game than WoW. If you play Eve as if it were WoW you will have a miserable time in this game, trust me I know because that is what I did in my first 6 months to a year of playing this game. I had to pretty much unlearn most of what I learned in WoW to be able to enjoy and even to understand this game.

There is no level cap in Eve. We don't have any end game. Any content worth participating in was created either by you or some other player. There is no queueable content in this game. If you want to do something you have to get involved. Making friends is a huge part of this game.

Player skill is far more of a determining factor in this game than character or ship / module skills or stats. Combine that with the fact the the main PvP statistic is isk efficiency which means total value of ships lost versus ships destroyed and you get a situation where you are not trying to get "decked out in epics" but rather finding cheap efficient ship buildouts that can get the task at hand accomplished in an efficient and cost effective manner. It is a totally different mindset and yes you can play this game and burn through ships without it destroying you financially. You just need to learn the game but that requires letting go of some of the ideas that you bring to this game from other MMOs.


One other point I want to make is that in WoW a level 10 player does not have a chance against a level capped player. There is such a huge difference in power that the level 10 would loose even if the level 100 ( or whatever they are up to currently with the level cap ) were do go AFK. In Eve a day one character in a frigate could blow up a 10 year old character in a battleship.

If you want to give Eve a chance you have to try Eve for what it is and not judge it based on criteria gotten from other games which does not apply here.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Francis Raven
ExDominion
Evictus.
#13 - 2017-06-21 14:57:40 UTC
Elhana Melahadrin wrote:
Francis Raven wrote:
"When an eve player leaves to play WOW, The Average IQ of both games goes up"


I didn't know this one... Really love it ^^.


For the OP, Eve is not the casual theme park you can find everywhere. The harsh environment, steep learning curve, the community are the specificity of Eve and make the game a lot more rewarding than any other MMO I ever played.

As opposed to what you say, the sens of accomplishment is a lot higher in this game. When you need so much effort and sweat to put something together, and even more to keep it alive, there is a true feeling of accomplishment.

Also, we can all mine all day long to make ISK, build ships and modules to sell, run mission to kill rats, but in the end, if ships and modules are not destroyed, who will buy them ? Nobody. Then, who will need to mine and build ? Nobody. Who will leave the game ? All industrialists and miners, but also traders. THIS is what would kill Eve, very very fast.

The game need everything to stay alive : miners, industrialists, mission runners, but also pirates, gankers and scammers. If one side disappear, the other will follow almost immediately.

So, if you don't like Eve as it is, this game is not for you and it's better to leave. There is no shame or blame in this statement, Nothing in this world is made for everyone. Find a game that suits your needs/will and enjoy it as much as we enjoy Eve's harsh environment.

Fly safe to your new world.



I cannot take credit for the quote, but I thought it would suit the thread well.

Otherwise, to the OP:
Very sorry that you feel this way. EVE is a great game, and best played with friends. Good luck on finding something that entertains you more.

ExDominion | Nullsec Corporation | Website | Forums | Established Nov. 2015 |

Keno Skir
#14 - 2017-06-21 15:12:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Back to WoW with you. EvE is for grown ups Pirate

Jet Moonshine wrote:
I can't in good conscience recommend this game JUST because of this. I'll choose a game where I can have a better sense of accomplishment because all the hard things I have worked for don't disappear permanently

And where the hell is any feeling of accomplishment when none of your stuff was ever in any actual danger? You can't slam EvE for actual risk then pretend you want a game that gives you a feeling of accomplishment. "Oh man that was such an accomplishment, i reloaded that same fight 50 times and finally won it"... In EvE you actually have accomplished something if you win the fight.
Ereka Nihil
Faded Light
#15 - 2017-06-22 02:08:22 UTC
Just pointing out, EVE never had 100k on at one time. Highest I ever saw was like 40-45k years ago, with spikes up to 50-60k for things like major fights and tournament days.
Villager Saken
Demacian Empire
Almost Underdogs
#16 - 2017-06-22 07:53:11 UTC
Everytime I undock my porpoise I know that it could be the last time. So I bought a bpc for 7.5 mil and since I'm a miner/booster we have the resources to make it if it goes up in smoke.
Maxi dela Tierra
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2017-06-22 08:27:03 UTC
One actual "metagame" is to lose as little as possible. You can play it safe and never or rarely lose anything that really hurts. The corresponding rewards from this style of gameplay will be lower and the game will feel less exciting and immersive. It's up to the player how much risk he/she will take to recieve certain rewards. You learn, then you decide. That's actually great, isn't it?
Kaydren Orlenard
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#18 - 2017-06-22 10:01:26 UTC
The things that you described are what made EVE unique and interesting, and they've made hard enough to accumulate new players that the dev team decided to go free-to-play to boost the in-game population.

This game was never intended for the general public so that there's not gonna be as many people playing as other mainstream game. The definition of a successful game really depends on how you think a game should have, be it supportive community, endless content, interesting idea, or just merely the number of players online.

If you think this game is too harsh for you then feel free to move on and find one that suits you. There gotta be different games that suit different players with different taste and gaming style. For this game it's the unbridled and courageous if you want to say it in a nice way, or BDSM and people who like to be abused if you want to say it in a mean way.
Jinn McKellin
Defying Vision
Empyreus
#19 - 2017-06-22 16:11:43 UTC
Bye
Selphentine
Pastafaris
#20 - 2017-06-22 16:13:44 UTC
it went from over 100k to under 20k? Where? :3
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