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EVE New Citizens Q&A

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Tried the game - Here's my Feedback

Alasdan Helminthauge
Hogs Collective
#41 - 2017-07-11 07:32:10 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
A frigate ship costs 400k, and decent fittings for it maybe 800k - 2M ISK. So 50 million ISK lets you lose 25 such ships in PVP.

Are you sure? A set of T2 weapons should already cost 2mil (the meta4s are probably even more expensive). A good frigate fit usually cost 8-15mil, and 50mil is probably not enough for even one decent fit. If you're talking about the fits with dirt-cheap T1 modules, it's called "basic fit".

Tyrrell Caitiff wrote:
BTW: Is there any way to get some warning signals like a "red alert"-siren when tracked or being shot at? Might be quite handy for afk-mining.

There is a audio warning when somebody actives a module on you, though still some-what quiet. Plus if you didn't notice until the he's already interfered with you, it's probably too late.
Memphis Baas
#42 - 2017-07-11 12:10:14 UTC
He's a newbie, so I assumed he wouldn't have access to T2 weapons. Although the frigate T2's don't take long to train, so you may be right. Otherwise Meta4's may cost a bit, but Meta 2's or whichever version has the "compact" reduced fittings (for newbies without maxed engineering skills) aren't that expensive.

So, fine, "basic fit", whatever. He's a newbie.

IMO, the fact that you bling your frigates by spending 100x the cost of the ship on fittings is YOUR choice.
Keno Skir
#43 - 2017-07-11 12:53:13 UTC
Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:
A good frigate fit usually cost 8-15mil, and 50mil is probably not enough for even one decent fit.

It really depends if you plan to use a SAAR or not. That one expensive module aside your figures for fitting costs are flat out incorrect.

Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:
There is a audio warning when somebody actives a module on you, though still some-what quiet. Plus if you didn't notice until the he's already interfered with you, it's probably too late.

Are you talking about the audio alert for the start of a new flag?
Universal Sanitation Corporation
#44 - 2017-07-11 19:14:30 UTC
I can kind of understand the feeling that ship loss is a big deal from a new player... but you'll soon realize that as long as you "fly what you can afford to lose"... it really isn't.

I have 2 accounts
My "active isk" activities in eve net me about 50-75m an hour.
My "passive isk" activities are around 3-5b a month.

My characters have been developed over about 3 years of actual gameplay (spread out over long breaks). These aren't high numbers... if anything I'm closer to the low end of isk making for characters of a similar age. But given that isk making potential the penalties for losing navy issue cruisers I fly most frequently is pretty small. My ratting VNI is paid off in 2 hours of active isk-making. The same two hours can put me in 6-9 fully fitted Caracals or other T1 cruisers for PvP fun without feeling pain from the loss. That doesn't even include insurance payouts.

Eve forces you to make a choice about what you fly... because you may lose it. Do I take my 1.4b isk Rattlesnake out to rat in low or null sec? Or do I just use a 100m isk VNI? Or a 10-15m isk Vexor? How much to I want to risk?

That question doesn't exist in other games... you always bring your best because you won't lose anything if you fail.
Boldly Gone
Grumpy Old Guy Industries Corporation
#45 - 2017-07-12 15:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Boldly Gone
"basic fit", whatever. He's a newbie.

Yeah, I'm also just 8 days in that capsule. I'm skilling every minute, of course, and applied all buddy injections, but I don't think I'll be able to use any L2 gadgets in the next two or three weeks... Level5 skills take a whale of time, and there are so many 38 minute Level1 skills to finish before.

So my frigates are about 2.5m, destroyers 6m in the killboard. On the loss side, to be precise Blink
Memphis Baas
#46 - 2017-07-12 20:33:28 UTC
CCP has reduced the skills required to fit Tech 2 defensive modules (anything that's not a weapon, basically), so all you have to do is train the support skills (engineering, navigation, armor, shields, targeting, rigs, etc.) to 3 (squares) and you'll gain access to Tech 2 defenses. This makes these available to Alpha characters.

Tech 2 weapons still require (some of) the basic gunnery, missiles, or drones skills to be trained to 5, so that's not available to Alphas and it takes an Omega character a couple weeks to train frigate weapons, and then a couple more weeks for cruiser weapons.

Typically, Tech 2 items have 25% - 50% better performance compared to the basic Tech 1 item, but, as above, require higher skills, and will also take up more resources on your ship (the power grid and CPU required to install the items).

Between the basic Tech 1 item and the Tech 2 item, you have a range of "meta" items; these are loot drops from various NPC pirates, that players can loot and then sell on the market. These "meta" items are listed in the info page of the basic item, under the Variations tab. They require the same skills as the basic Tech 1 item, and provide 5% - 25% better performance.

The cost of "meta" items is only loosely related to how "good" they are, and is much more related to how rare they are as loot drops. In quite a few cases, the rarity doesn't correspond to the performance increase, so it's quite possible to find cheap "meta" items on the market that are almost as good as Tech 2.

You recognize meta items by their fancy name; for example instead of "small shield extender I" you will see "small azeotropic shield extender," "small f-s9 shield extender," "small subordinate screen stabilizer", etc.
Boldly Gone
Grumpy Old Guy Industries Corporation
#47 - 2017-07-13 08:33:48 UTC
Yeah, last night I looted a 54m Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, the edition Lvl 1 price is 39k, Lvl 2 price 1.5m - is there anything special with that item but the price?
Memphis Baas
#48 - 2017-07-13 14:10:40 UTC
The gear quality and sources can be sorted like this:

Civilian - really crappy gear given out for free during the tutorial, for the sole purpose of helping newbies finish said tutorial

Tech 1 - basic gear - manufactured from asteroid ore/minerals

Meta gear - (relatively) common loot drops from NPC pirates - quality between Tech 1 and Tech 2, price based on rate of drop

Tech 2 - advanced gear (the "standard" for PVP fittings) - manufactured from blueprint copies that themselves have to be "invented", and requiring "advanced" materials from moon-mining or wormhole space

Officer / Faction gear - rare loot drops from NPC bosses - quality is higher or equal to Tech 2, fitting requirements are often less than Tech 2 sometimes as unrestrictive as Tech 1

So, basically your Shadow Serpentis module is a "faction" module (Serpentis) / officer module (Shadow versions of Serpentis pirates are bosses), so the rarity is quite high. Performance may be really good, too. Sensor boosters are used to increase a ship's targeting range and/or targeting speed. Officer modules are used in PVP scenarios where they need to squeeze every last bit of performance out of the ship; one such scenario is being able to instantly target fast ships like (insta-warping) interceptors, to catch them at gate camps even if they try to warp away faster than the computer can deal with. So that's where your SeBo may get its high price from.

Usually, if the officer module has good performance and is desirable, you'll see it for sale for high prices on the market, with several sellers trying to underbid each other. If the officer module is rare but has crap performance or nobody wants to use it because it's pointless, then you see it on the market / in contracts, typically with a single seller posting it high-priced as part of a market / contracts scam.
Bunty Trivedi
#49 - 2017-07-15 07:30:26 UTC
Nice to have you.
You don't like dying? Well.... Sorry about that.Sad
You lost a ship? Well.... Sorry about that.Sad
You're leaving ? Well.... Sorry about that.Sad
And bye. Attention

If this post was insulting: Well.... Sorry about that.Sad

That repetitive sentence is irritating? Well.... Sorry about that.Sad

Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#50 - 2017-07-15 11:43:07 UTC
The death "penalty" was part of the game since day 1 and one of the reason population was rising. It wasn't the only one spreadsheet mmo in the world, it was as you called it "HARDCORE" spreadsheet. Like the old style paper rpg's where your 4 month old character could die on a banana slip because you didn't share pizza with the GM.

Ship and module destruction is a core part of the economy, and, deep down, eve is an economics/ politics simulator. Industrialists are the ones really ruling eve, not pvp folks (try to pvp without ships and supply chains). Take destruction away- those people go away too. No need to mine or produce at current rate if the only ships you need are ships for new players.

Speaking of wow and making eve more wow-like (not to mention splitting player base into 2 servers, forget that), didn't the last few carebear friendly updates kill wow? People even made an "old style" legacy server with huge population, that's how they missed the "hardcore" game.

D3 also got wow-ified and people were unhappy about it. Folks that came into my group from wow often said "oh it's just like wow", played for 2 weeks and quit. I stayed for a few months, but if D2 had modern engine I'd probably play that instead. Game being too easy, too rainbow-y, max lvl and endgame sets possible to get in a week (or a day lol), dmg numbers that are impossible to read because of the dps creep.....
But hey, it's "new player friendly".
It's also dead.
Captain puns PleaseNoMore
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2017-07-20 15:11:08 UTC
Jet Moonshine wrote:
So the prologue of the game is amazing. Once I get past the prologue and start doing the quests from the different career path guys - no more audio messages - no more story. Just - text telling me to do a quest - then get your next quest. VERY bland.

Then I start talking with people in the game. - Learning more about the game.

Apparently in this game if your ship gets destroyed - IT IS GONE!!! You gotta buy a new ship - and new fittings for the ship - and the only thing you can do to help mitigate cost is insurance - which does not give you the full cost of everything you put into the ship back.

In many games there are death penalties. However this is FORCING people to play HARD CORE. This is VERY rogue like and there are more people who HATE perma-death games then there are people who LIKE them.

There is a huge reason why your server population went from an average of 100k a day to below 20k a day. People lost their ships - all that hard work and time they put in the game to get them - AND THEN BOOM!!!!

The death penalty is WAY TOO BIG in this game for me to even CONSIDER putting the amount of time required to even get a somewhat decent of a ship going!!! WAY TOO BIG GUYS!!! TOO BIG!!!

Sorry - the death penalty for this game makes it NOT WORTH MY TIME.

You want your player base to come back? Figure out a way for people to be able to have their ships re-spawned - add some kind of death penalty (but not too big) - like even a really long re spawn timer would be better than perma-death. I'm talking days to weeks even. DO NOT make people lose their fittings / implants either. I hear those can also be really hard to replace.

Or hey here's an idea. Start a server where you have your typical style game - and then the other server with NO PERMA -DEATHS FOR SHIPS but re-spawn timers like I stated.

Imagine playing WoW with Perma death. World of Warcraft WOULD BE NO WHERE NEAR AS SUCCESSFUL HAD THEY DONE THAT!!!!!

These are GAMES people... Making things too close to real life on certain aspects TAKES THE FUN OUT OF PLAYING SAID GAME!!!!!!!!! ( permanent death in games just like real life - IS NOT... FUN!!!!!!!!!!!)

I saw that one video where there was that massive battle - hearing about how people lost collectively OVER 300 THOUSAND DOLLARS!!! Yeah I bet a crap load of people rage quit the game because of that.....

Just think - you could have KEPT all those players for such a much longer time had it not been for this ill-advised gameplay decision.

If you are going to have Hardcore in your game (perma-death) - THEN MAKE IT AN OPTION AND DO NOT FORCE IT ON PEOPLE WHO ABSOLUTELY ABHOR THAT!!!!!!! Make different servers for people who do not want to play like that!!

IT IS AS BAD AS MAKING PEOPLE PLAY WITHOUT AN INVERT Y AXIS OPTION!!!!! POOR DECISION TO LEAVE OUT THE OPTION!!!! Devs who do this seem like they have some kind of built in arrogance where it's like they are telling the world: No - you play the way I want you to play or don't play at all - and then assume there won't be a backlash from it. THE ARROGANCE!!!

I can't in good conscience recommend this game JUST because of this. I'll choose a game where I can have a better sense of accomplishment because all the hard things I have worked for don't disappear permanently because of : Lag. Bad Luck, In the wrong place at the wrong time, etc. etc. etc. etc."

This is especially true considering you allow people to make in game purchases.

BORDERLINE GAMBLING. No thanks! Funny how in this case the house will eventually lose given enough time. That's assuming they don't take any advice.

I seriously doubt this post will change anything for the game. I bet this post has been done already countless times by countless different people. But hey - what would life be like without repetition?


you should give up on games are too easy quit being a normie dumbass

you will never find a fun MMO again I know you're looking for a new one that's why you check this game out in the first place you don't realize who trying to find a challenging game
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