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PLEX price (ISK) out of control to CCP
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Navik Askiras
Yautjas
#1 - 2017-06-20 14:01:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Navik Askiras
Hey there,

As you know PLEX pirce is increasing all days about 50M per day (500 PLEX's), that's is a fact and this is out of control. PLEX item is a special item, because give you time in game to keep your Omega status, probably is the most important item in game. If this problem will happens for example to Injectors probably will not a problem, because if you do not buy or you can not buy for high price for your poor econony, you just will need to expend more time in game... but your status Omega will keep a live. In this case PLEX item is big problem for new players. I don't know from who was the idea to split PLEX, but was a wrong idea... because if you split something always will become more expensive if that was the objective, well done. If not... well you can see the finale scene. The trillionary players probably do not care the price for now, but for a new players like me, YES. I being playing EVE since 4 month and I started playing EVE because I could pay the suscription with money of game (ISK). I bought 500 PLEX's two days ago for the first time to upgrade to Omega, but if this continue in a few month I will leave the game, like me probably are a lot of players that is in my same situation.

A possible solution to control PLEX price:
1. Back to exclusive item PLEX 1 unit, not 500 like now.
2. Put a a minimum price and maximum price to the actual PLEX. a long time stable price is the best option.

The better solution I think is the second option that CCP can get.

The objective of CCP should be:
1. Keep happy the players.
2. Continue to grow as a community, not multi-accounts from the same player.
3. Keep upgrading the game.

Feel free to post your option to stop price up.

I hope some GM can read this... :)

My most sincere and humble opinion.

Best regards,
Navik
Keno Skir
#2 - 2017-06-20 14:21:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
It's not rising 50M a day. The split into mini-PLEX has caused some inflation of the pricing, but it really isn't as bad as you're making out.

When i started playing a PLEX was 250-300M, it is now 1.3B. While it obviously has increased in price, it is in fact easier to afford for a new player now than it was then in my opinion due to increased access to higher paying content these days.

You mention you already bought 500 PLEX, how did you afford them?

EDIT : EvE is famous for it's player driven market. Suggesting CCP intervene and impose a maximum / minimum price rule is unlikely to garner good responses, and rightly so.

I realise 1.3B seems like a massive amount if ISK but you must understand that paying your sub with ISK is not supposed to be easy for newer players, and that your ability to generate ISK will rise a lot over the next year or so to the point where PLEX is not such a huge cost.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#3 - 2017-06-20 14:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
Navik Askiras wrote:

As you know PLEX pirce is increasing all days about 50M per day, that's is a fact and this is out of control.


[citation needed] and why is it out of control?

Navik Askiras wrote:
I don't know from who was the idea to split PLEX, but was a wrong idea... because if you split something always will become more expensive if that was the objective, well done. If not... well you can see the finale scene.


I imagine it was someone involved in making CCP more money, and I'm sure they're getting quite a few pats on the back right now. Converting PLEX to Aurum in order to use it for microtransactions was clunky and benefited mostly traders, while putting people off of buying smaller items due to cost of entry being 500 new PLEX.

Navik Askiras wrote:
I being playing EVE since 4 month and I started playing EVE because I could pay the suscription with money of game (ISK). I bought 500 PLEX's two days ago for the first time to upgrade to Omega, but if this continue in a few month I will leave the game, like me probably are a lot of players that is in my same situation


Have you considered getting better at making ISK, or paying for your subscription with real money?

Navik Askiras wrote:

A possible solution to control PLEX price:
1. Back to exclusive item PLEX 1 unit, not 500 like now.
2. Put a a minimum price and maximum price to the actual PLEX. a long time stable price is the best option.


The first will not happen because it'd be a step backwards and lose profit for CCP. The second shouldn't happen because EVE prides itself on being a sandbox and artificial price fixing would go against that, also what happens when you lock the price in and the rich buy out all the PLEX for sale? That's the reason PLEX price increase, supply and demand I guess?

Navik Askiras wrote:

The objective of CCP should be:
1. Keep happy the players.
2. Continue to grow as a community, not multi-accounts from the same player.
3. Keep upgrading the game.


I'm pretty sure the objectives of for-profit company should be to make profit, if that aligns with your points then that's great.

Free 3rd party services

Buddy link w/ bonus 250k SP, you keep the whole PLEX upon subscribing
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#4 - 2017-06-20 14:42:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
No. CCP can't put a hard limit on PLEX. That would cause a 2nd summer of rage in no time and the investors and speculators, who hoard millions of PLEX, would take revenge by i.e. crashing the PLEX market so hard that people would stop buying PLEX with RL money. That would have severe effects on CCP's revenue.

Whats CCP needs to do:

  • nerf ISK faucets
  • buff ISK sinks

What they could do to decrease the insane demand for PLEX:

  • limit skill injectors to 1 per day
  • turn 30 days of Omega time into a token (like multi character training) and sell it for 400 PLEX. That way investors would not be affected (SP farms and PLEX hoarders create the most demand for PLEX), but players who need to buy PLEX with ISK to pay their subscripton would have it easier. Subscribing with real money would still be cheaper (30 day sub with real money: 11-15€; 30 day sub with token: 16€).
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#5 - 2017-06-20 15:16:21 UTC
IMO the absolute best thing CCP could do is to increase the build and copy time on the most expensive blueprints in the game.

Suddenly players will need a lot more of them, and buying blueprints from NPCs is a massive, massive ISK sink. Destroying ISK will lower the PLEX to ISK conversion rate.

A 30% increase in build and copy time on capital ships and capital components, followed by a second 30% increase in the medium term (6-9 months, maybe 12), and a 50% increase in build/copy times on all Citadel related things (structure components, citadel hulls, rigs) would be a tremendous indirect ISK sink.

One that anyone with a wealth significantly less than mine would not notice at all.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#6 - 2017-06-20 16:15:53 UTC
Algarion Getz wrote:
What they could do to decrease the insane demand for PLEX:


Do something about ghost training (which has just been done). The break-even point for ghost training (where PLEX lets you train just enough SP to sell for the ISK for the PLEX) was a much higher PLEX price than, say, non-exploit skill farming. I expect with the demise of ghost training we'll see SP prices rise more and PLEX prices stop this meteoric rise.

I think this is more significant than your suggestion to limit skill injector use - with ghost training gone the demand for PLEX to buy skill extractors will fall naturally.

They've also recently eliminated - well, reduced - PLEX losses in transit, but I dunno how significant those ever were.

You're quite right about ISKflation, of course.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#7 - 2017-06-20 23:57:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
Areen Sassel wrote:
Algarion Getz wrote:
What they could do to decrease the insane demand for PLEX:


Do something about ghost training (which has just been done). The break-even point for ghost training (where PLEX lets you train just enough SP to sell for the ISK for the PLEX) was a much higher PLEX price than, say, non-exploit skill farming. I expect with the demise of ghost training we'll see SP prices rise more and PLEX prices stop this meteoric rise.

I think this is more significant than your suggestion to limit skill injector use - with ghost training gone the demand for PLEX to buy skill extractors will fall naturally.

They've also recently eliminated - well, reduced - PLEX losses in transit, but I dunno how significant those ever were.

You're quite right about ISKflation, of course.

The banning of ghost training could also have the opposite effect because you can also farm SP legally by giving all your farming accounts Omega status (you buy Omega status with PLEX). The profit per character was ~250mill a while ago. Big SP farms (100+ characters) already existed before ghost training became popular. If the ghost farmers switch to the legal version of SP farming, demand for PLEX would increase even more.

Maybe thats already happening, the PLEX prices have risen very fast in the last days.
Cor'El Dahken
Farmers Union Iced Coffee
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2017-06-21 02:34:47 UTC
Why the actual f*** do you want Plex prices controlled?
Just because you want to pay for your subscription and not have to work too hard to afford it?
If Plex is cheap no one pays RL money for it because it's not good value. And that is just not good business for CCP.

Let the players decide where Plex prices should be, get gud and put some more work into making isk if you can't afford a real sub.

Or, another option could be this really cool feature they added which allows you to play the game without paying any money at all, alpha clones. Maybe give that a whirl.
Krysenth
Saints Of Havoc
#9 - 2017-06-21 03:56:58 UTC
Navik Askiras wrote:
Hey there,

As you know PLEX pirce is increasing all days about 50M per day (500 PLEX's), that's is a fact and this is out of control. PLEX item is a special item, because give you time in game to keep your Omega status, probably is the most important item in game. If this problem will happens for example to Injectors probably will not a problem, because if you do not buy or you can not buy for high price for your poor econony, you just will need to expend more time in game... but your status Omega will keep a live. In this case PLEX item is big problem for new players. I don't know from who was the idea to split PLEX, but was a wrong idea... because if you split something always will become more expensive if that was the objective, well done. If not... well you can see the finale scene. The trillionary players probably do not care the price for now, but for a new players like me, YES. I being playing EVE since 4 month and I started playing EVE because I could pay the suscription with money of game (ISK). I bought 500 PLEX's two days ago for the first time to upgrade to Omega, but if this continue in a few month I will leave the game, like me probably are a lot of players that is in my same situation.



You realize the change to plex hasnt happened very long ago, right? When I first played EVE eons ago, plex was 500m each. By today's standards, that would have been a few hours, days, or a slow month of ratting. Back then? Solo player who ran sec missions in hisec who's greatest achievement was saving up for a T1 battleship to run L4s in? 500m would take weeks. That being said, it has not been enough time to see if plex will continue rising in price, drop back down, or stabilize somewhere in between.

Bear in mind as well, before last year/several months ago, you DIDNT have an option to make isk if you let your account lapse. You were basically told "tough **** lol, get daddy's credit card," not "welp, you're limited in what you can do, but you can still make isk."
GROUND XERO
TOP DAMAGE Ltd.
Unspoken Alliance.
#10 - 2017-06-21 09:06:35 UTC
Plex is the second thing after the sub what is giving ccp rl money, which pays everything to keep game alive. I never had issues with plex prices because all my accounts are running with rl money.



BUT:

- When people are doing incredible things like ghost training (iwi etc.) and even get rewards for this (like tripple their iskies through concord ships) ccp is hurting themselves by throwing away rl money and is activly manipulating the market (because the spawn iskies like hell into peoples pockets).
- to say don´t touch the market because it should work on it self while ccp is manipulating it is not working
- so first steps should be to make sure all kind of "manipulating" esp. from ccp side and players who are abusing mechanics will get stopped!


I might be worng but feel invited to correct me!

NCPL (Necromonger of new Eden) will make EVE great again!
Cor'El Dahken
Farmers Union Iced Coffee
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2017-06-21 09:14:11 UTC
I'm not sure where CCP have been actively manipulating?
They have put out an exploit notice in regards to ghost training (not generating isk) and have already said it was a mistake that all the Concord ships got handed out (again not generating isk), and have put a fix in place to ensure it doesn't happen again.
I'm not sure how either of those things is spawning isk can be considered CCP actively manipulating the market?. It's creating a channel for transferring isk but not spawning it.
Al Nomadi
Morawins
#12 - 2017-06-21 09:16:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Al Nomadi
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
IMO the absolute best thing CCP could do is to increase the build and copy time on the most expensive blueprints in the game.

Suddenly players will need a lot more of them, and buying blueprints from NPCs is a massive, massive ISK sink. Destroying ISK will lower the PLEX to ISK conversion rate.

A 30% increase in build and copy time on capital ships and capital components, followed by a second 30% increase in the medium term (6-9 months, maybe 12), and a 50% increase in build/copy times on all Citadel related things (structure components, citadel hulls, rigs) would be a tremendous indirect ISK sink.
.


I think CCP agrees. The planned nerf for moon goo mining process, will increase manufacturing price for T2 items and they also make one time large scale ISK sink event ( meta items blueprints ). I totaly agree, that large, XLarge citadels and capital ships are too damn accessible. I would not change the price for medium class structures, but I would raise the price for anything, that is capable to produce or dock capital ships.

Another sink could be the tax for CONCORD protection of citadels in high sec. Sell charters , that has limited time validity and have to be installed into special bay of any Upwell concorcium structure to ensure, that concord will defend it in high sec. Otherwise we will see tons of dead raitarus and astrahuses everywhere in high sec cause no one bother to pay war declaration fee to shoot it. Without race-specific chart, citadel in high sec can be shoot in their invulnerability window by whomeever.
GROUND XERO
TOP DAMAGE Ltd.
Unspoken Alliance.
#13 - 2017-06-21 09:38:27 UTC
Cor'El Dahken wrote:
I'm not sure where CCP have been actively manipulating?
They have put out an exploit notice in regards to ghost training (not generating isk) and have already said it was a mistake that all the Concord ships got handed out (again not generating isk), and have put a fix in place to ensure it doesn't happen again.
I'm not sure how either of those things is spawning isk can be considered CCP actively manipulating the market?. It's creating a channel for transferring isk but not spawning it.

If intended or not it is an activ manipulation! So as long as criminals and ccp is manipulating the market and hurting the game you should not speak about free market at all! :-) And as long as "illegal isk" is not drawn out of the game ccp is supporting this by not acting in all consequences!

NCPL (Necromonger of new Eden) will make EVE great again!
Cor'El Dahken
Farmers Union Iced Coffee
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2017-06-21 09:51:00 UTC
GROUND XERO wrote:
Cor'El Dahken wrote:
I'm not sure where CCP have been actively manipulating?
They have put out an exploit notice in regards to ghost training (not generating isk) and have already said it was a mistake that all the Concord ships got handed out (again not generating isk), and have put a fix in place to ensure it doesn't happen again.
I'm not sure how either of those things is spawning isk can be considered CCP actively manipulating the market?. It's creating a channel for transferring isk but not spawning it.

If intended or not it is an activ manipulation! So as long as criminals and ccp is manipulating the market and hurting the game you should not speak about free market at all! :-) And as long as "illegal isk" is not drawn out of the game ccp is supporting this by not acting in all consequences!


But where is this 'illegal' isk coming from?
GROUND XERO
TOP DAMAGE Ltd.
Unspoken Alliance.
#15 - 2017-06-21 10:04:20 UTC
selling out of game, gambling,botting, ghost training, market maipulating through leaks .... and everything else i don´t know and never want to know!

NCPL (Necromonger of new Eden) will make EVE great again!
Cor'El Dahken
Farmers Union Iced Coffee
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2017-06-21 10:32:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Cor'El Dahken
I understand that ISK is being illegally transferred.

But where is the isk coming from? I would think about that before getting upset about a couple of mistakes from CCP.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#17 - 2017-06-21 10:58:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
Cor'El Dahken wrote:
Why the actual f*** do you want Plex prices controlled?

So that average players can afford to pay their subscription with ISK?

These days the PLEX market is controlled by the space rich, speculators and investors who hoard millions of PLEX.

SP farms (the legal version) create a huge demand for PLEX which drives up the prices.

What would you prefer? A few thousand active players or a few thousand SP farm accounts who only login once a month and never undock?

Stuff like SP farms shouldnt even exist. How is it balanced to make billions per month with no work and no risk? If CCP wouldnt earn money with it (by selling skill extractors), it would be removed / blocked within days.

Every year CCP monetizes more aspects of the game by adding more uses for PLEX. Apparently the #1 goal for CCP is to sqeeze as much money out of the existing playerbase as possible. That strategy might be good for their wallets in the short term, but its very bad for the game in the long term. Player count goes down and down ... at the moment its ~15000 ... a few years ago we had twice as many, even on weekdays.
Navik Askiras
Yautjas
#18 - 2017-06-21 11:50:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Navik Askiras
Keno Skir wrote:
It's not rising 50M a day. The split into mini-PLEX has caused some inflation of the pricing, but it really isn't as bad as you're making out.

Yes it is, if you count 500 = 50M/day more expensive.

Keno Skir wrote:
When i started playing a PLEX was 250-300M, it is now 1.3B. While it obviously has increased in price, it is in fact easier to afford for a new player now than it was then in my opinion due to increased access to higher paying content these days.

Current price 3M unit = 1.5B

Keno Skir wrote:
You mention you already bought 500 PLEX, how did you afford them?

As I said before I has been playing since 4 month a lot of hours day.

Keno Skir wrote:
EDIT : EvE is famous for it's player driven market. Suggesting CCP intervene and impose a maximum / minimum price rule is unlikely to garner good responses, and rightly so.
Only for PLEX is my suggestion, there are plenty of more items that you can speculate...

I realise 1.3B seems like a massive amount if ISK but you must understand that paying your sub with ISK is not supposed to be easy for newer players, and that your ability to generate ISK will rise a lot over the next year or so to the point where PLEX is not such a huge cost.

Maybe for a veterans, but new players no... and 1.5b current price... :)
Navik Askiras
Yautjas
#19 - 2017-06-21 11:56:32 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
[citation needed] and why is it out of control?

Easy answer, 50M more expensive by day 500 units.

Elizabeth Norn wrote:
I imagine it was someone involved in making CCP more money, and I'm sure they're getting quite a few pats on the back right now. Converting PLEX to Aurum in order to use it for microtransactions was clunky and benefited mostly traders, while putting people off of buying smaller items due to cost of entry being 500 new PLEX.

Like I said, if that was their objective well done...

Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Have you considered getting better at making ISK, or paying for your subscription with real money?

First option on it, but need time for that... second no option for me. The problem is if PLEX keep increasing the price.

Elizabeth Norn wrote:
The first will not happen because it'd be a step backwards and lose profit for CCP. The second shouldn't happen because EVE prides itself on being a sandbox and artificial price fixing would go against that, also what happens when you lock the price in and the rich buy out all the PLEX for sale? That's the reason PLEX price increase, supply and demand I guess?

I know... but is an option. The second option in real life the big companies do that in his shares.

Elizabeth Norn wrote:
I'm pretty sure the objectives of for-profit company should be to make profit, if that aligns with your points then that's great.

Really? Oh damn. ok. The obvious I didn't say.
Navik Askiras
Yautjas
#20 - 2017-06-21 12:06:16 UTC
Algarion Getz wrote:
No. CCP can't put a hard limit on PLEX. That would cause a 2nd summer of rage in no time and the investors and speculators, who hoard millions of PLEX, would take revenge by i.e. crashing the PLEX market so hard that people would stop buying PLEX with RL money. That would have severe effects on CCP's revenue.

Whats CCP needs to do:

  • nerf ISK faucets
  • buff ISK sinks

What they could do to decrease the insane demand for PLEX:

  • limit skill injectors to 1 per day
  • turn 30 days of Omega time into a token (like multi character training) and sell it for 400 PLEX. That way investors would not be affected (SP farms and PLEX hoarders create the most demand for PLEX), but players who need to buy PLEX with ISK to pay their subscripton would have it easier. Subscribing with real money would still be cheaper (30 day sub with real money: 11-15€; 30 day sub with token: 16€).


Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
IMO the absolute best thing CCP could do is to increase the build and copy time on the most expensive blueprints in the game.

Suddenly players will need a lot more of them, and buying blueprints from NPCs is a massive, massive ISK sink. Destroying ISK will lower the PLEX to ISK conversion rate.

A 30% increase in build and copy time on capital ships and capital components, followed by a second 30% increase in the medium term (6-9 months, maybe 12), and a 50% increase in build/copy times on all Citadel related things (structure components, citadel hulls, rigs) would be a tremendous indirect ISK sink.

One that anyone with a wealth significantly less than mine would not notice at all.

I don't care what option they pick, but the PLEX price need to stop go up.

Areen Sassel wrote:
Algarion Getz wrote:
What they could do to decrease the insane demand for PLEX:


Do something about ghost training (which has just been done). The break-even point for ghost training (where PLEX lets you train just enough SP to sell for the ISK for the PLEX) was a much higher PLEX price than, say, non-exploit skill farming. I expect with the demise of ghost training we'll see SP prices rise more and PLEX prices stop this meteoric rise.

I think this is more significant than your suggestion to limit skill injector use - with ghost training gone the demand for PLEX to buy skill extractors will fall naturally.

They've also recently eliminated - well, reduced - PLEX losses in transit, but I dunno how significant those ever were.

You're quite right about ISKflation, of course.

I hope you will right.

Cor'El Dahken wrote:
Why the actual f*** do you want Plex prices controlled?
Just because you want to pay for your subscription and not have to work too hard to afford it?
If Plex is cheap no one pays RL money for it because it's not good value. And that is just not good business for CCP.

Let the players decide where Plex prices should be, get gud and put some more work into making isk if you can't afford a real sub.

Or, another option could be this really cool feature they added which allows you to play the game without paying any money at all, alpha clones. Maybe give that a whirl.


New players can not afford price PLEX right now, a lot of players start to play for this option, play by paying with game money.
I didn't say you don't need to work hard. but work hard and abuse of price is a difference. For a good a experience you need to make ISK and have fun at the same time, if you don't do that you will leave the game really fast.
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