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Crime & Punishment

 
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[FREE TRAINING] MO's School of Technical PvP

Author
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-11-27 23:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
I'm posting this as a service. For those who know me, I'm sure some could vouch for my understanding of maneuver mechanics.

I have trained a lot of good PVP'ers over the years and I believe everything starts with an understanding of how your maneuvering affects damage taken and dealt. These strategies of maneuver dictate builds, fleet doctrines, etc.. and everything else.

For those who don't know me, please read a tutorial I wrote a few years ago: tutorial. This is just the basics.

I will be in Umokka teaching any who choose to come. I plan for this to be my permanent place in the game. I enjoy teaching and hope to make Umokka a place for casual cheap PVP.

The rules are as follows:
1) I will not teach you anything until I see one of the following:
A) a lossmail (1 week old or newer) of you in a T1 frigate in Umokka.
B) a killmail (1 week old or newer) of you killing something in a T1 frigate in Umokka.
C) you actively looking for a fight in a T1 frigate.
2) read the tutorial before asking questions. It is long and I don't want to re-cover it for every student.

I always start students in T1 frigates because they are cheap and they are amongst the most technical ships to fly. The wide range of speeds and orbital ranges that are relevant in these ships inflate the value of maneuver for those who fly them.

Against skilled opponents, you sometimes must change strategies multiple times in a fight... which is unusual in the larger ships.

I don't care if you are at war, 3 days old, or older than me. I will fight you, spectate your fights, and work with you as long as you come to fight and are reasonably cool.

I don't want you in my corp and I don't want to be in your corp. I just want to hang out, teach, and engage in casual PVP.

For those who want to participate, you know where to find me.

This project has 2 locations:
Chat: Numbnuts Pub
Physical: Umokka x- Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Station "on the undock".

I will be baiting, duel spamming, and other activities while I wait. I encourage all students to do the same.
Benson en Efnyssen
Celtic Anarchy
Dead Terrorists
#2 - 2016-11-28 00:42:53 UTC
I welcome the idea but I am somewhat sceptical. Last time I saw a service like advertised here the tutor had so other specific requirements, such as wearing Speedos while on Skype and drinking a cocktail called a "Cosbypolitan"?

Last time I tried one these PVP lesson services I blanked out and woke up wearing lipstick next to an Alsatian, minus said Speedos. Will you be offering a similar service?
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#3 - 2016-11-28 00:45:34 UTC
I fully endorse this Product and/or Service

Furthermore I see it as an extnesion of the no NewBro left behind initiative founded by Veers which sparked a real drive in the community to include NewBros in all Neweden has to offer to save them from the drone of missions and mining. Without Products and/or Services such as this New Eden would be a dull place indeed

+10

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#4 - 2016-11-28 00:46:20 UTC
Benson en Efnyssen wrote:
I welcome the idea but I am somewhat sceptical. Last time I saw a service like advertised here the tutor had so other specific requirements, such as wearing Speedos while on Skype and drinking a cocktail called a "Cosbypolitan"?

Last time I tried one these PVP lesson services I blanked out and woke up wearing lipstick next to an Alsatian, minus said Speedos. Will you be offering a similar service?

You have to pay for that kind of service in my experience

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Benson en Efnyssen
Celtic Anarchy
Dead Terrorists
#5 - 2016-11-28 00:48:00 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Benson en Efnyssen wrote:
I welcome the idea but I am somewhat sceptical. Last time I saw a service like advertised here the tutor had so other specific requirements, such as wearing Speedos while on Skype and drinking a cocktail called a "Cosbypolitan"?

Last time I tried one these PVP lesson services I blanked out and woke up wearing lipstick next to an Alsatian, minus said Speedos. Will you be offering a similar service?

You have to pay for that kind of service in my experience


Paid for in dignity and shame.
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#6 - 2016-11-28 00:55:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
Benson en Efnyssen wrote:
I welcome the idea but I am somewhat sceptical. Last time I saw a service like advertised here the tutor had so other specific requirements, such as wearing Speedos while on Skype and drinking a cocktail called a "Cosbypolitan"?

Last time I tried one these PVP lesson services I blanked out and woke up wearing lipstick next to an Alsatian, minus said Speedos. Will you be offering a similar service?


While I'm open in payment in exactly these manners, I actually do enjoy teaching and will be working with anyone who shows a willingness to fight... with or without fighting me and without payment.

I have been baiting and teaching in local lately and having quite a bit of fun doing so. I figured if I could get more people to come down and participate, maybe I could relive the chaos of the glory days.

I think it's too damn hard for players to learn to fight now that fleet stuff is the only easy fights to get. Those who participate will see the value and maybe enjoy some casual cheap pvp along the way.


If you think you're above training, I pose the following question: "If you are in a gun boat and an adversary is orbiting you, which manner of maneuver will most likely produce the highest damage output: 1) Flying Straight 2) Orbiting the opponent or 3) Stopping."
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#7 - 2016-11-28 12:54:58 UTC
I fully support this service. We need more real fighters teaching the stuff you don't find on wikis, FAQs, etc.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-11-28 13:31:21 UTC
Vouch.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#9 - 2016-11-29 02:32:27 UTC
Today's thought:
If you are using a MWD with short range guns, a scram, or a web... you better be prepared for your opponent's scram to turn off your MWD... and then for your opponent to have full maneuver freedom.

See, a MWD turns off when someone hits you with a scrambler... leaving you at mosey-speed.

If you can't think of an occasion when you want your opponent to have full authority of engagement range, you probably ought not combine a MWD with any plan that requires getting closer to a target than 15k. (There are some scenarios where this makes sense, but make sure you have thought it through).
Natural CloneKiller
G0P-ST0P
P I R A T
#10 - 2016-11-29 11:33:38 UTC
I would contact p45. They require this service.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#11 - 2016-11-29 11:42:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Today's thought:
If you are using a MWD with short range guns, a scram, or a web... you better be prepared for your opponent's scram to turn off your MWD... and then for your opponent to have full maneuver freedom.

See, a MWD turns off when someone hits you with a scrambler... leaving you at mosey-speed.

If you can't think of an occasion when you want your opponent to have full authority of engagement range, you probably ought not combine a MWD with any plan that requires getting closer to a target than 15k. (There are some scenarios where this makes sense, but make sure you have thought it through).

+1

This is the eternal* conundrum of short range guns: you need to close range quickly, but you also need to maintain relative mobility once you get there even if your MWD gets shut off.

When packing short range guns, dual web or dual prop is your friend. I never really got good at flying blaster boats until I learned this. (Of course, when Tiericide came along and gave the Thorax a fourth midslot, that certainly helped too....)


*Well, it's not eternal strictly speaking. Scrams didn't always used to shut down MWDs. But you get the idea.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#12 - 2016-11-29 12:59:08 UTC
Vouch for Mo. He's good people and good at Eve. You can't beat quality free instruction.

GL Mo - get the fire back!
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#13 - 2016-11-29 13:42:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
Today's thought of the day:

If you are having trouble tracking an opponent with your guns, you have several options of maneuver:

1) If your ship is stopped, that's the worst case scenario. I can't think of a scenario where you get a tactical advantage from stopping. If you need to be stationary even when not fighting, jettison something and orbit the can. That will at least keep alpha-shooters from insta popping you.
I wouldn't think of this as a tactic, but I still see it from time to time.

2) Orbiting your opponent (The only method that's commonly used in the game) - If you are orbiting your opponent and you cannot hit him effectively with your guns, you can orbit farther away to try to reduce his angular speed, but probably orbiting is not your best option.

I think most people always "orbit" when they fight. Second most common tactic is stopping, sadly.

Here are two better options. If you haven't tried these, get a cruiser with short range guns and get a friend in an Afterburner frigate to orbit it. If stopped, you won't be able to track it at all, at an orbit, you should be able to track it some. Then try these:

3) Approaching or "keep at range" will reduce angular speed to an orbiting opponent helping you to do more damage. If you're having trouble getting your dps on a target, this is the less effective of these two methods of increasing it. If your opponent is trying to get away, this is your best option.
4) The most effective way to increase damage on an orbiting target that you can't seem to track is just to fly in a straight line (double click in space). Even if you couldn't hit a target at all while it was orbiting, you can often obtain decent DPS just by flying in a straight line because their orbits bottom-out behind you and then they fly straight up your tail.

Of course, you still have to manage range when you do these. Your best damage range with guns is to be right at "optimal."

(This and other maneuver tricks are the reason I tell people that an AB is both the best tank and damage mod in the game).

(I have been flying a Punisher lately and the lazors track so badly, this is a required skillset. I don't think I could kill anything if I was trying to orbit my opponents)
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#14 - 2016-11-29 14:34:56 UTC
Serendipity, Leto, Noragen, and Bronson - Thanks for the vouches. If I say anything stupid, please correct it.



Clonekiller - Everyone is welcome. I have yet to see a mercenary group where everyone understands maneuver mechanics and I've participated in many respected merc groups over the years. I bet you have a few members who could benefit as well. I suspect you may even know some of my old students.



Noragen - Yes, this is very much like "No Newbro Left Behind". Veers would be proud. I need to petition to get permanent access to the rookie chat so I can reach more newbros. Nothing retains newbros like newbro pirates ganking innocent newbros.

It's like a newbro retention storm.

I actually had an incident a few years ago where I trained a newbro who had like 2 million SP but could fly a frigate pretty well. After an hour or two of instruction I left for the weekend.

When I got back, I found he had murdered a substantial fraction of Caldari Space. I'm going to say 30+ kills, but I can't recall exactly (this isn't hub humping, he was flipping and getting fights, may have been a war dec or two open). I remember being shocked.

Newbro pirates are the best pirates.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#15 - 2016-11-29 15:13:54 UTC
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Serendipity, Leto, Noragen, and Bronson - Thanks for the vouches. If I say anything stupid, please correct it.

Of course. I'll try not to add my 0.02 ISK too often. This is your thread after all. Pirate

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#16 - 2016-11-29 20:20:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Noragen Neirfallas
Mobadder Thworst wrote:

Noragen - Yes, this is very much like "No Newbro Left Behind". Veers would be proud. I need to petition to get permanent access to the rookie chat so I can reach more newbros. Nothing retains newbros like newbro pirates ganking innocent newbros.

It's like a newbro retention storm.

Um... I can perhaps arrange something in regards to rookie chat. Mail me if that was serious cause there are certain guidelines to that

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Jimmy Savile II
Doomheim
#17 - 2016-11-29 21:37:05 UTC
You look like a pedophile.
And you sound grumpy as hell.
Would not waste my precious time with you. Newbros would quit the game if they decide to play your sexual twisted mind games.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#18 - 2016-11-29 22:30:51 UTC
Jimmy Savile II wrote:
You look like a pedophile.
And you sound grumpy as hell.

Anybody else feel like the kettle just called the pot black?

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#19 - 2016-11-29 22:45:12 UTC
Jimmy Savile II wrote:
You look like a pedophile.
And you sound grumpy as hell.
Would not waste my precious time with you. Newbros would quit the game if they decide to play your sexual twisted mind games.
Too old?

BTW I wouldn't expect to keep the name long, but given that you chose it you're almost certainly a troll.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Moon Moon Burdy
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#20 - 2016-11-29 23:18:15 UTC
Jimmy Savile II wrote:
You look like a pedophile.
And you sound grumpy as hell.
Would not waste my precious time with you. Newbros would quit the game if they decide to play your sexual twisted mind games.


Come on now. This is a righteous thread full of goodstuff. The door's thataway, Nitshe. Get out.

Things that went boom

Storytime with Moon Moon New stories semi frequently-ish!

Promising Young Murderer, Education Appreciated.

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