These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Crime & Punishment

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

[FREE TRAINING] MO's School of Technical PvP

Author
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#21 - 2016-11-30 16:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
Thought of the day:

Tank selection- buffer or repair (active or passive)

The decision to be a buffer tank or repair tank is a simple decision of how long it will last in the situation you will put it in.

If you are trying to tank a Raven with T2 modules, for instance, you can either have 100k EHP with very little repair (buffer fit) or 30k EHP with 1000 hp/s repair (repair fit).

If you are taking low damage (less than 1000 dps), the repair tank lasts forever and the buffer tank lasts ~100 seconds or more. Therefore, the rep tank is better.

If you are taking high damage (2000 dps), the rep tank lasts 30 seconds and the buffer tank lasts 50 seconds. The case prefers the buffer tank.

If you are taking 10k dps, the rep tank lasts 3 seconds, the buffer tank lasts 10. (Fleet scenario). Buffer tanks are typically strongly preferred in fits that will take fleet damage.


As a generalization, rep tanks are best in scenarios where you can control inbound damage. This includes kite fits, pve, 1v1 fits sometimes, etc... Selecting this type of tank requires strong consideration of how you will pilot the craft to avoid high dps. Typically, this build for pvp requires high speeds and ranges to survive, as close range against a brawler opponent will rarely go well.

Buffer tanks are better for station games, fleets, and large scale activity where you are likely to encounter large quantities of DPS. They also require very little thought and cap management, which makes them easier to fly when you are new to pvp and your fingers get shaky.




Additional notes: I consider auxiliary boosters to be buffer components because they can't sustain rep. Think of them as a finite (but nice) addition to your EHP. They are useful, and good components, but they are effectively buffer components.


Shield vs armor:
Shield components increase sig radius. This is bad when you are fighting larger ships and is something you need to think about when flying something with a huge sig radius. However, they don't affect your speed and can be preferable in speed builds (which don't require as many mid slot components to control range.

I prefer shield for kites and it is relevant in mid-range builds.

Armor components decrease speed. This is bad when you are relying on speed to keep you alive. Brawlers usually expect to be heavily webbed and scrammed, so the speed drawback isn't as much of a concern. Also, brawlers typically need web, scram, AB, and as many additional mid slot components as possible. Armor mods allow for that because they fit low slots.

I prefer armor for close range brawlers and it is still very relevant in mid range builds.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2016-12-01 05:12:28 UTC
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Serendipity, Leto, Noragen, and Bronson - Thanks for the vouches. If I say anything stupid, please correct it.


Pfft. I have been out of practice so long I may take the damn class myself.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#23 - 2016-12-01 14:35:55 UTC
Thought of the day:
The selection of guns vs missiles is an important decision when flying a speed build (interceptors, nano boats, etc..),

When making this decision, I would consider the following strengths of guns and missiles.

Missiles:
Long range missiles give you the ability to shoot far and project your damage reasonably well... but not against targets that are moving fast (due to the speed damage reduction of (explosion velocity)/(target velocity)).

If something tries to catch you at 2400m/s.... missiles will not be effective at projecting damage on that target because the speed factor damage reduction will be huge. If you don't believe me, try it with a friend.
This makes it hard for high speed missile boats to defend themselves against high speed gun boats. A very important realization if you want to fly a crow or nano-drake.

However, if you are relying on staying 15k away from your target to keep you alive, the effectiveness of missiles at long range make it easier to maneuver safely during an engagement. That long range is great for harassing heavy fleets that cannot catch you.

These ships are also a LOT of fun to fly.


Guns
Guns are MUCH more defensible at high speed because chasing you implies flying straight up your tail with no angular velocity (perfect gun tracking scenario). Whatever damage you have will be nearly perfectly applied on any fast ship you're
1) Chasing
2) Running from

I spent a lot of time in the nano-cane a few years ago. The beauty of the nano-cane was that nothing that could easily catch it could take more than a few shots from the autocannons... it was too much DPS for anything small to take. Now, it couldn't hold ground against a well tanked cruiser, but you could fly around a fleet and pop all the tackles with relative safety.

As per my previous discussion, I don't typically recommend short range guns with MWD, so you're not going to see a lot of short range speed builds from me.

I am a big fan of tracking enhanced autocannons (can get good range and tracking out of that) for this type of build, but range is critical because you need to be able to operate efficiently outside 15k and inside 24k.

Summary
At high speed, missile boats struggle to defend themselves against things that go similar speed. Gun boats don't have that problem, but lack the luxurious engagement profile of long range missiles.


Combined Effort


Some of the best fighting I ever did was when I combined a high-speed gun boat with a friend who was flying a high-speed missile boat. By keeping them close together, you can hold the field against a larger force and the missile boat can shoot from long range harassing a fleet. The gun boat can clean up any little tackles that try to chase you down.

Concerning the speed team like this, it's a lot of fun but just keep them close together. The missile boat is extremely vulnerable to fast tackles and the gun boat can't really harass a fleet effectively. Used together, it's a good mix.






Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#24 - 2016-12-01 15:03:55 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Serendipity, Leto, Noragen, and Bronson - Thanks for the vouches. If I say anything stupid, please correct it.


Pfft. I have been out of practice so long I may take the damn class myself.



He said T1 frigs in HS. If I catch you there in one of the 3 thanatos carriers you owe me..... it will be dealt with.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#25 - 2016-12-01 20:15:18 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Serendipity, Leto, Noragen, and Bronson - Thanks for the vouches. If I say anything stupid, please correct it.


Pfft. I have been out of practice so long I may take the damn class myself.



He said T1 frigs in HS. If I catch you there in one of the 3 thanatos carriers you owe me..... it will be dealt with.

Or with a tranny. That too will be dealt with Lol

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#26 - 2016-12-01 21:48:37 UTC
Oh look, someone going fast and straight to kill traversal.

Comically.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Mortlake
Somalian Coast Guard Authority
#27 - 2016-12-01 22:45:49 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Oh look, someone going fast and straight to kill traversal.

Comically.


DON'T FUCK1NG TURN

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...

Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#28 - 2016-12-01 22:48:12 UTC
Mortlake wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Oh look, someone going fast and straight to kill traversal.

Comically.


DON'T FUCK1NG TURN

OR YOU'LL SLINGSHOT YOURSELF OUT OF THE ******* SOLAR SYSTEM

These videos are hysterical....

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
CODE.
#29 - 2016-12-01 23:58:16 UTC
I endorse this product and service. Mo is the legit dude, you'll learn a lot.


Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#30 - 2016-12-02 14:23:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
Thought of the day;
Neutralizers are good equipment that just aren't as relevant as they used to be (They are still critical to use and understand). I used to consider neutralizers to be a replacement for DPS in many scenarios because you could turn off so much of your opponent's tank that 2-3 appropriately sized neutralizers could speed up kills... Even if you gave up DPS to make them fit.

With the damage control becoming a passive mod, you are really only in a position to turn off active tank mods, so the reduction in expected EHP when you cap out an enemy is not nearly as much and tiericide ensured there aren't as many ships that can hold 2 or 3 neutralizers without a major damage reduction.

If you are using multiple neutralizers, start them at intervals so they hit about even distance apart. Ex: 3 large neutralizers with a cycle time of 24 seconds would need to be turned on 8 seconds apart so they take cap every 8 seconds. This makes the target's cap a LOT harder to manage.

I now think of the neut as a maneuver control mod (mostly to allow mid-range ships). I'm not willing to give up as much DPS to get neutralizers now that they don't have as much capacity to speed up kills.

They are still very effective when employed against close range brawlers to give you back maneuver capacity to kill the brawler from range. It takes a good tank to play this way, but you can let a brawler beat on you while you cap him out.. Then pull back out of his effective range and finish the job.

Brawlers need a web, scram, and AB most of the time. the ones with a 4th mid slot may have a cap booster, but mostly I find those on active tanks. If your whole strategy relies on capping your enemy out, it is a good idea to know how many mid slots your opponent has.
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#31 - 2016-12-03 23:05:42 UTC
Thought of the day:
ECM drones require understanding. In my opinion, they are a hail-Mary at best.

You calculate the chance of successfully jamming a target by dividing the drones jam strength by the ships sensor strength.

Small ECM drones have a jam strength of 1 against every race. If you were trying to jam a frigate with a sensor strength of 10, you would have a 10% chance of success. (Jam strength (1)/sensor strength(10))= 10% or .1

Now, that means the chance of failure is 90%, or .9.

To figure out the chance of multiple drones together, you have to multiply the chances of failure together. Ex: 5 drones with a 90% chance of failure would have a (.9*.9*.9*.9*.9= .59) 59% chance of failure.

That means your 5 drones give you a 41% chance of successfully jamming a t1 frigate (assuming there is a t1 frigate with a jam strength that low, my punisher is 12.6 signal strength) in a given jam cycle.

These can make sense in some circumstances, but even with 5 of them your chances of actually jamming a ship on the first cycle are really bad. Larger ships have larger sensor strengths.

They can make sense as a hail-Mary if something catches your kite-boat, but I don't recommend betting on them as part of your strategy.


Angar Ituin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2016-12-04 09:38:09 UTC
ill be flying by somewhen soon :D.
Looking forward to learn some PVP.

Thanks for the service and delivering such a great value to the community.
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#33 - 2016-12-04 15:16:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
Angar Ituin wrote:
ill be flying by somewhen soon :D.
Looking forward to learn some PVP.

Thanks for the service and delivering such a great value to the community.


Great! Can't wait to see you. Be sure and join "numbnuts pub" in the meantime!

Start picking fights as soon as possible, we will review them when you are ready.
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#34 - 2016-12-04 23:33:07 UTC
Thought of the day:
Alpha shooter is the term we use for ships that do a LOT of damage in a single shot.

We all know there are people trying to use these in ganks and other activities, but I want to discuss their relevance.

I'm no fleet expert, but there is a great argument for using alpha strikes in fleet activities, because they can appear to have much higher DPS than they really do specifically in short fights.

Suppose you had two ships, one that did 1000 dps and fired each second (blaster boat) and another that does 900 dps and fires once every 10 seconds (artillery boat).

In the first second, the alpha shooter will do 9000 damage. After that, the other ship will fire 9 more times bringing both ships nearly equal at (alpha shooter did 9000 damage, blasted boat did 10.000 damage) 10 seconds until the alpha shooter fires again.

As of the second shot, the alpha shooter has discharged 18,000 damage in 11 seconds. The blaster boat has discharged 11,000

In this case, if the fight only lasts 11 seconds, the alpha shooter will have averaged 1600 dps because it did 20 seconds worth of damage in 11 seconds.

The high cycle time of the artillery allows it to have a higher damage output than its DPS calculation would make you think it has on fights that only last 2 or 3 shots (in fact, if the fight only lasts two shots the damage is twice what the DPS calculation says, if the fight lasts 3 shots it is 50% higher than the DPS calculation says) I would think this would be popular in large fleet activities, but I can't speak to it.

It has a place in the mind of any pvp player though.

Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#35 - 2016-12-05 14:35:42 UTC
Thought of the day:
Ammo selection is simple in pvp. Choose the ammo you are most likely to have success with.

Shields naturally have 0 resist to EM damage. Armor naturally has 0 resist to explosive damage.

Most people use a single module to balance that lowest resist, and then use modules that affect all resists after that. Typically, that doesn't quite balance the lowest resist. As such, I recommend using ammo that does EM damage on shield tanks (Caldari and Minmatar) and explosive damage on armor tanks (Amarr and Galente).

Ammo like antimatter that do the two middle resists are well balanced against all opponents, but don't have the opportunity to exploit the natural weakness of the tank types when someone doesn't balance his resistances.


T2 and Faction Ammo:

Faction ammo performs like t1 ammo, but better. It is the same thing, just with more DPS. I always recommend.

T2 ammo (like modules) always has a drawback. There is always an attractive performance characteristic, but there is always an underperforming characteristic as well. As such, be careful. It can, and frequently does, result in a decrease of DPS for many users.

Example: T2 rage torps do fantastic damage. However the explosion radius is 650, which is HUGE. Only a shield tanked battleship with bad drawbacks would have any chance of filling that out. Against most targets, regular T1 torpedos will do substantially more damage.

The T2 equivalent of antimatter has a tracking drawback that will affect your DPS badly if you don't make up for it with maneuver.

T2 ammo is valuable and important, but be sure to take the time and read how it affects performance because some of them are downright hard to use well


Multiple ranges:
I think it is a good idea to try to think through possible engagement types your ship could experience and pick contingency ammos. That is to say, your brawler may be designed to shoot republic fleet Fusion(explosive for armor)/EMP (EM for shields)for close range DPS, but it can still be worth throwing a couple thousands rounds of barrage in the hull.. just in case.

You never know when you will lose control of maneuver and that little extra DPS at range can push someone off who would otherwise have killed you.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#36 - 2016-12-05 15:13:24 UTC
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Most people use a single module to balance that lowest resist, and then use modules that affect all resists after that. Typically, that doesn't quite balance the lowest resist. As such, I recommend using ammo that does EM damage on shield tanks (Caldari and Minmatar) and explosive damage on armor tanks (Amarr and Galente).

Two minor additions to a great post:

First, don't underestimate thermal damage for shield tanks or kinetic for armor tanks. If your target is using an actual resist mod instead of a resist rig to fill their primary hole (EM/Explosive), then their secondary hole (Thermal/Kinetic) may be bigger.

Second, T2 resists on your target can throw all of this straight to hell. Using explosive damage against Sacrilege or EM damage against a Broadsword will not go over too well.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#37 - 2016-12-05 16:36:13 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Most people use a single module to balance that lowest resist, and then use modules that affect all resists after that. Typically, that doesn't quite balance the lowest resist. As such, I recommend using ammo that does EM damage on shield tanks (Caldari and Minmatar) and explosive damage on armor tanks (Amarr and Galente).

Two minor additions to a great post:

First, don't underestimate thermal damage for shield tanks or kinetic for armor tanks. If your target is using an actual resist mod instead of a resist rig to fill their primary hole (EM/Explosive), then their secondary hole (Thermal/Kinetic) may be bigger.

Second, T2 resists on your target can throw all of this straight to hell. Using explosive damage against Sacrilege or EM damage against a Broadsword will not go over too well.


+1 - excellent addition.
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#38 - 2016-12-06 14:33:43 UTC
Thought of the Day-

Picking Fights

I'm asking that people come to Umokka and pick fights. Here are just a few suggestions that either work or should still work.

1) Spam duel offers - This is a generally unsuccessful way to get fights, but it's safer than some of the other techniques. Fly something either small (so people think they can beat it) or blingy (so they really want to beat it). It's hard to get interest this way.

2) Going Suspect - This used to be great when it was localized against just the corp you stole from. However, in the current state of Eve risk aversion, this is a viable way to get fights. Sadly, even good technique won't save you when the entire undock of a station decides to light you up. To do this, just go to the belts and steal from a wreck.

3) Mission Bombing - Use probes on-grid at a station to get the scan-tags of your targets. Then when they hop into a mission, you can scan them out rapidly by just scanning that tag (abc-123). Then, you can go into their mission and 1) steal stuff 2) shoot MTUs 3) bump them 4) ask them for payment for services rendered.

4) Local Theatre - Get a buddy and pick a fight with you in local chat. If one of you is playing a "bad guy" and the other plays the "good guy", people will often try to get involved to participate in the drama (save the little guy, tell-off the bad guy, etc...) This method can be a lot of fun.

5) Percieved slights - Talk in local and wait for someone to say something snide. Have an 1800's style meltdown and demand a duel. Threaten to declare war if your target doesn't fight.

In all of this, keep in mind that your opponent doesn't always want to fight, but is an opportunist. Given a chance to fight and win, most players will take the bait.

It's a good idea to fly something non-threatening and act like a moron in local chat. Feel free to misidentify ships (I'm flying a merlin class cruiser), confuse war decs (If you declared war on them, act like you think they attacked you. Accuse them of piracy and tell them they should be banned from the game).

A little chaos goes a long way and, if done tastefully, can inspire other people watching to want to play as well. Fights are more meaningful when there is a reason. Keep in mind, though, that abusive smack talk is as likely to make someone quit as it is to get a fight.

Keep it fun and interesting and your targets will come back for fights time and time again.

Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#39 - 2016-12-08 13:29:54 UTC
Thought of the day:
T2 modules - I find a lot of young players don't understand T2 modules.

The performance of the primary characteristic of T2 modules typically reflect the performance of the best T1 module.

Example: T2 launchers typically shoot at the same rate as arbalest launchers. (They also allow T2 ammo...)

T2 components bring that performance at a much lower cost, but almost always have a "drawback".

The drawback is usually that they are more expensive to fit (more power grid or CPU).


In summary- T2 modules are better because they are cheaper and reflect a high average performance.
David Xen MacElroy
Nightbringers Funhouse
#40 - 2016-12-09 02:50:08 UTC
we need more people like you dude!

would love to duel you if im in the area

Pirate
Previous page123Next page